What is “Good” rum?

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What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

Oh man, I’m probably getting ready to open up a sh!t storm. :roll: But, as a self confessed rookie, I’m finding that the more research I do, the more I realize how little I know, how little I understand, and how easily I get more confused!!! This is one complicated hobby. :crazy:

As I put in my “Introduction” post, I’m very interested in learning to make “good” rum. I now understand that what I think is good rum is likely 720 degrees out of phase with what the next member thinks is good rum. AND NEITHER OF US ARE WRONG! Yikes, how the hell is a newbie to get a handle on all this?????? :D

So, I’d like to do a reset, if you will indulge me. I would like to learn to make what are probably considered medium bodied, aged rums by most knowledgeable rum makers. I was a scotch drinker for 30+ years until a friend gave me a glass of Pampero’s Aniversario from Venezuela. It’s a “finished” rum with, I’m sure, all sorts of proprietary tricks, but, damnit man, it just melted on my pallet and pushed all the right buttons. That was 8 yrs ago and I can count the bottles of scotch I’ve bought since that day on two hands. Since starting down this road, I still drink a boat load of it, but, I’ve also branched out to others. My house bar rum is Flor de Cana, 5 yr old. If I want to splurge on more expensive rums, I think their 12 & 18 yr olds are good too. In that same price range, I really like the Ron Zacapa 23 (it’s a blend and not purely a 23 yr old rum), the Kirk & Sweeney 25 is good. If I really want to go big, I love the Ron Zacapa XO. I’m not suggesting that any of these are any better than Captain Morgan or Gossling’s Black Seal, it’s just where my taste buds lead me.

So, that is the direction I would like to go with this hobby. I have a 15 gal, 3” CM column from Brewhaus that I just got about a month ago. I’ve done a 40 gal all panela stripping run followed by a fully packed column spirit run. I got 3+ gal of 65 pf (after dilution for aging) of what I’d call a pretty neutral rum. It’s on charred oak for what I guess will be several years. I just finished stripping 42 gal of Pintoshine all moly wash. I’m trying to decide whether to run it through the column as comparison to the panela run or just run it in potmode to try and increase some flavor carryover. Any suggestions?

When all of our experienced rum makers post, it runs the full range from infected dunder pits to guys making white/silver rum for their “panty droppers”. I must admit, it often confuses the hell out of me! :crazy: So, based on what I’d like to make (above), can some of you rum guys give me some direction? I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP! :thumbup:

Thanks so much.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by fizzix »

Crow's Rum gets my recommendation as it uses turbinado sugar that sets it's flavor apart.
Mine has only been on oak a few months, and it's developing nicely.

I also made a "control" rum from molasses and brown and white sugar for comparison. While it is OK, Crow's outright has the taste advantage.

You've opened the floodgate, my friend...
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

What I love about this site is how many rum-o-philes there are. I never would have dreamed 10’yrs ago that I’d be a rum-head today. I also can’t believe how limited the dark rum selection is in what are considered to be very nice restaurant/bars. I carry a plastic flask with me often which drives my wife CRAZY! Oh well.

As for the flood gates, hey, the more the merrier!
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

GCB3 wrote: I’m very interested in learning to make “good” rum. I now understand that what I think is good rum is likely 720 degrees out of phase with what the next member thinks is good rum. AND NEITHER OF US ARE WRONG! Yikes, how the hell is a newbie to get a handle on all this??????
MMMMM yes rum.
It always makes me laugh when I see people say I don't like rum, maybe they only ever tried one sort.
What sort of rum do you like ? Light rum, white rum,gold rum, dark rum, navy rum, overproof rum, spiced rum, rhum agricole, Cachaça? Nearly every country on earth distills rum...they in turn vary greatly in quality and taste.
Buy some and try some ,experiment , then try the different rum recipes on different forums....decide what you like to drink then make the rum that you like.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Yummyrum »

GCB3 wrote:. I carry a plastic flask with me often !
So long as you don't say you drink spirits from it , you won't be breaking any forum rules .
We would encourage drinking spirits from a stainless steal or glass one . :thumbup:

BOT : there are so many styles of Rum like Salty mentioned and amoung those styles are some great and not so good ones .

The style of still you use , be it a pot still , thumper , flute , reflux still and how many passes you make ,
The cuts you make and the Oak / ageing process all have a bearing on outcome .You can make a hundred different Rums from the same type of wash .

My advise to you is that you will most likely not make a nice drink straight up . It takes a lot of practice.
You probably have read that tails will mellow and smooth with time . For years I tried and tried and finalky have realised that tails while maybe OK for Whiskeys have no place in Rum . Likewise you have probably read that heads are bad and should be cut right out . Again this is good advise for Whiskey or Vodka makers but Rum does need heads n it otherwise it just isn't gonna be a Rum . I don't mean the early heads but rather the middle to late heads .

But thats my opinion .
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Nice to see that you have seen the light in that regard Yummy, :thumbup: Ive been of that opinion for a very long time now, hearts is all that ever goes into my barrels. Heads and tails belong in the feints container waiting to be added back to the next run.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

Yummyrum wrote:
GCB3 wrote:. I carry a plastic flask with me often !
So long as you don't say you drink spirits from it , you won't be breaking any forum rules .
We would encourage drinking spirits from a stainless steal or glass one . :thumbup:
No drinking from plastic! I carry the plastic flask for volume if I’m sharing. It can hold a pint and not get too heavy for a coat pocket. If it’s just me, I have a smaller, silver flask I bought on eBay. For drinking, I bought my wife these really nice “stemless” wine glasses years back and they turned out to be perfect rum glasses for me too. They have a good sized bowl and a thin lip that just seems to work perfectly. You can get a nose full of vapor before every sip.

You are right, I have read a lot of opinions on heads and tails. Some folks, like Saltbush, are hearts only advocates. I had gotten the impression that heads are less desirable (headache inducing, etc.) and that the flavors are concentrated in tails. Yours is the first I’ve seen to suggest some heads and no tails. The blend I made from my panela run was primarily hearts with a small amount of late heads and early tails from the adjacent cuts. I’m hoping it will age well on oak.

I listed in my original post the brands and thereby the profile of rum I prefer. With such a vast spectrum of products and techniques, what should I do or not do to approach that style of rum? IOW, do I need to experiment with an infected dunder pit or just add back fresh dunder from the last run or no dunder and just add back feints to the next run, or add dunder to the spirit run, or...........or............or............ :lol:


The reason for this thread is to hopefully get some direction from more experienced rum makers to help me (and others) narrow down the vast options and lead to the best paths and techniques that will guide me towards the profile I’m hoping to produce. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

If you're not building up a flavor profile for a commercial rum good rum is whatever -you- like.

- Take really good notes on your ingredients, process, equipment, and finishes.
- Learn what flavors you like and dislike. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69015
- Learn how to enhance the good and eliminate the bad.
- Experiment. You may not like a specific flavor with one another, but it may be fitting for a different one.

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/index.ph ... or_Profile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You can also experiment with blending. Make some lightly flavored product and mix with some stronger stuff. Figure out where you like your flavor. Try a triangle test with different version of your own product: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Triangle_Test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

If you're doing a spiced rum try macerating the botanicals/spices separately and then blending them together. You can get better flavors from learning how best to extract each ingredient and then blend them to your prefer profile. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67771
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by bluefish_dist »

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the rum flavor comes from distillers caramel. So it's what you add after distillation that adds a lot of the flavor. I certainly could be wrong, but I have not been able to achieve the really strong caramel and vanilla flavors without adding something after distillation.
Granted I don't do a dunder pit. I tried it early on and found it made a really rough taste. Might become good with a lot of time in the barrel, but it still would not be the flavors I wanted.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by HDNB »

bluefish_dist wrote:I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the rum flavor comes from distillers caramel.
+1 also if you add back a bit of backset, about a half to 1 oz/gallon it gives a rum and coke a nice frothy head. needs a bit of time on wood though.

lemon hart for a mixer and diplomatico exclusiva for sipping on if i'm paying for it.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Bushman »

I like my rum made from (Sugardaddy's) panela and blackstrap molasses. You can alter the flavor a lot depending on the amount of blackstrap used from a lighter to darker rum. Adding Dunder from the previous run also makes a huge difference in the taste profile.

On a side not I just bottled from a 10 L cask that has been aging for just over a year, I then filled the cask with a corn/rye bourbon and will be interested how the rum residue left in the cask effects the bourbon.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by bluefish_dist »

Dictador, one barrel, and plantation are a few that are on the shelves of our liquor cabinet. if you are a rum drinker, you need to visit smugglers cove in San Francisco.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

Perhaps simply look how those Rums are made? You will find out that almost all Rums are made without adding raw sugar to the wash. Only molasses, water and yeast. Something like 7-9% abv. Then medium heavy Rums are distilled in a column to over 90%. Heavy Rums are distilled a bit lower (but over 80%) in a single run with a potstill plus two thumpers.
https://www.diffordsguide.com/producers ... d-appleton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
The thumpers are charged with relative high abv, for example the first thumper with 30% "low wines" and the second with 60% "high wines", so that it results in a very high abv (80-90%) hearts compared to a normal potstill double run. Then after the hearts the early tails will fill the second thumper and the late tails the first thumper for the next run.
I know the 12yo from Appleton. It is a good unsweetned and not too expensive Rum between medium and heavy. For the Rums you aim for distill to something like 92% and try out several additions (caramel, vanilla, glycerine, Sherry and of course oak or boisee, american white oak is the mainly used one). With a potstill distill at least three times or distill with a column (single or double runs). Or build a potstill with two thumpers...
Adding dunder infected or not or adding vinegar to the wash before distillation or letting the fermented wash infect for a few months is not needed for naming a Rum "heavy", only for naming it "high ester". I don't think you need it for the taste you like.
The most Rum recipes here on hd have two very formative aspects coming from the american moonshiners tradition this forum comes from: Diluting with sugar and distilling low proof. Does this work not only for moonshine but for Rum too, I say no. I say Rum made like moonshine will give you something ok but very different from what you aim for when you want to make something similar like from the store (cheap or expensive). But it's your choice. I know it's not easy to decide with all the different opinions here.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

bluefish_dist wrote:I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the rum flavor comes from distillers caramel. So it's what you add after distillation that adds a lot of the flavor. I certainly could be wrong,
Good Rum is made with 100% molasses, Oak and time. Not with additives.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Hi GCB3...I'll throw my hat into the ring here also...by taking a big step back and trying to meet your needs. So your looking for a “general formula/recipe” that will produce a Rum that you love and /or admire. There isn't a magic bullet that anyone here can give you that will create the Rum your looking for...your still is different, your brew shed is different, the fermenting environment is different...What you'll get will be uniquely yours, but in a similar style to what you like... but I think you get that!
Rum is a flavor intense spirit that falls into three main categories...French, Spanish and British, each approached it's Rum manufacture differently...but this difference can be duplicated. You have said, by stating the brands you like, that you want to reproduce a Spanish style Rum. So I'll try to define a Spanish Rum (and let the HD rum heads thump me later)

Spanish Rum...Pot-still distilled from a ferment using local well water and raw cane juice and refining vat dross, from a sour wash with quite a high potential ABV. (these never ferment out)Twice distilled with the vinaza (back-set/dunder) used to lower the ABV of the low wines at spirit distillation. Aged in charred Spanish Oak at a high cask strength and diluted to 40% for consumption.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Spanish Rum...Here are the variables, and this is where it gets interesting...(Please any Rum heads your input here)

The water...the Caribbean water is hard (lots of local limestone) and slightly saline...no surprise there. It is acidified, or made sour, could be lactic acid, acidic acid (vinegar) probably to knock the natural carbonates back for fermentation.
Substrate...80% penela 20% molasses at a high potential ABV...15% to 20% (would duplcate the cane juice and Vat dross) and this would strain the yeast, that, and the temperatures will also be high for the fermentation (the climate)...producing some much wanted esters.
Yeast...bakers would leave a lower ester profile than a lambic yeast...so you ether have to take a good stabbing guess or try a whole bunch of yeasts. There are non-fermentables in the wash that will leave the final SG reading looking very high...but this may be needed in the vinaza (back-set) for flavor.
Distillation...the beer run is Pot distilled and everything is taken, average ABV of the low wines would be around 30%. Wash is cut back with COLD vinaza (back-set/dunder) to 15% or a little lower and redistilled for the spirit run, also a pot still... the spirit is cut very carefully...for us this means, left to sit in the jars to breath for three days before deciding what's in or out.
Aging...Aged in Charred Spanish Oak, the spirit is casked at 60% or above.
Tasting notes...where as French Rhum is described as “intense, fruity, floral and powerful”...
and British Rum as “intense, spicy, dark and heavy”...
Spanish Rum is discribed as “round, sweet, buttery and complex”

You'll have a lot of fun developing your own personal “Spanish” Rum...keep good notes and please keep us well informed. Any questions...please ask! :clap:
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Badmotivator »

I can offer some personal experience here. A simple molasses and brown sugar wash, aged in one of my barrels made with new, toasted, charred white oak, aged for nearly two years now, has loads of caramel, vanilla, butterscotch, and mellow rumminess. The “raw spirit” character is 90% gone, almost hard to find among the other flavors and aromas. I’m looking forward to tasting it again in a couple more years. :)

I’d recommend you start simple. Ferment some molasses, distill it, exclude any particularly nasty jars, put it in a really high-quality barrel, and walk away. I don’t know if you’ll hit all of your marks, but you will certainly enjoy what comes out of it if you wait long enough.

After you’ve put that first batch away, make a small adjustment and do it again. Maybe you saved some dunder to start a muck pit with, hey? Maybe you got some panela? Maybe you got a different barrel? Maybe you got a plated column and you can try a one-and-done? Be fearless! You can’t go wrong if your distillate is decent, your aging technique is good (probably the most important element for you), and you wait long enough.

Hope that helps.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Badmotivator wrote: aged in one of my barrels made with new, toasted, charred white oak, aged for nearly two years now, has loads of caramel, vanilla, butterscotch, and mellow rumminess.
And there we have it , almost perfectly sums up Rum making, caramel and vanilla flavors come with time, how much of that you get depends on what types of oak you use and how it is toasted, or if you oak in glass or a barrel. Sitting on your hands and waiting is the key.
Badmotivator wrote:The “raw spirit” character is 90% gone, almost hard to find among the other flavors and aromas.
To me Rum rarely ever tastes good straight off the still, don't think that because it tastes and smells a bit manky now that it will be the same in 6 months, a year , 18months or 2 years ....it will mellow and change time and again as the clock ticks.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

kiwi Bruce wrote:So I'll try to define a Spanish Rum (and let the HD rum heads thump me later) Here we go :lol:

Spanish Rum...Pot-still distilled from a ferment using local well water and raw cane juice No. Normally molasses. And because the famous Rum regions are small, the most Rum is from imported molasses. They import molasses from the sugar-fuel-alcohol producing countries. Yes, many Rum producers own a sugar plantation. But normally it's not large enough. Same like a few Scotch distilleries run an own small malting floor and a few even grow their own barley partially. But all in all Scotland is way not large enough for all the barley they need.

Substrate...80% penela 20% molasses Panela? Can you name a large Rum company working with panela? at a high potential ABV...15% to 20% So strong? So the Jamaikan people invented turbo yeast?
Distillation...the beer run is Pot distilled and everything is taken, average ABV of the low wines would be around 30%. Wash is cut back with COLD vinaza (back-set/dunder) to 15% or a little lower and redistilled for the spirit run, also a pot still... Never heard of a Rum distillery doing like this.
Aging...Aged in Charred Spanish Oak, No. Mainly ex Bourbon barrels. Spanish oak? You mean south american oak? Never heard of this. If the used barrel gives not enough flavor or not fast enough and they don't want to add artificial flavors, they add oak cubes into the barrel.
Where did you get those infos?
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

der wo wrote:Panela? Can you name a large Rum company working with panela?
Not a single one that I can think of ...maybe they exist but where ?..............all of the big producers use molasses and nothing more as far as I know.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

But the OP mentioned one exception: The Zacapa Rum. It's made from "sugar cane honey", what probably means sugar cane juice boiled to reduce the water content. Perhaps not very different from panela or raw sugar. Then it's continuous column distilled high proof. This means the raw distillate has almost no tails flavors, but probably much heads. No tails means, the depth of the flavor has to come from the barrels or additives. It is aged in ex Bourbon barrels at over 2000m (less angels share) and finished in Sherry barrels. And as you can see here...
http://durhum.com/here-we-rum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
sugar, vanilla, glycerine. And probably other spices.

GCB3,
did you notice that the Zacapa is made from total different material (no molasses) than the other Rums? If not, it's a hint that for those products almost all taste of the raw distillate is removed by high proof distillation. 99% is aging and additives. If you use molasses or sugar cane juice or panela doesn't matter here. Concentrate on aging and additives.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

BTW, commercially extreme important for producers of heavy Rum is not only selling the Rum, but also Rum concentrate! They sell heavy Rum with strong and characteristic esters and molasses flavors to other producers, who spice their almost tasteless 95% molasses distillate with it. There is nothing on the Zacapa label, what would forbid it. For example google information about Hampden distillery. They are very proud of it, that many other producers buy their Rum for flavoring their own.
BTW, this has a long tradition. Rum is made as heavy and flavorful as possible, then shipped to Europe, and there diluted with neutral alcohol. This way for selling 1000l Rum in Europe you only have to ship 100l heavy Rum from South America. Here already is the beginning of counting esters of Rum. The more esters the higher the price the producer in South America gets. It is not a new idea of crazy connoiseurs with too much money. Perhaps there wouldn't exist dunder pits without this economical export system.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Yay! the Rum Runners arrive... :clap:
I don't know anyone in the Homecraft who can get either cane juice or refining vat dross...Panela is hardened unrefined cane juice, I think that this would be as close to pure cane juice, as any of us can get... I'm only guessing that molasses is the closest cane product we can get that would be even close to the crud that floats off the sugar refining vats, I think this crud was used so that the last little bit of fermentable sugar could be extracted, and flavor...you tell me.
Just an aside...Jamaica was a British colony, not Spanish, and their spirits are different breed of fish. The four main European entities in the Caribbean, The British, French, Spanish and Dutch all made Rum, they were never on good speaking terms, they didn't share information or techniques, and their product was supposed to be TOTALLY different. (But what do I know...I've never even tasted Dutch Rum) Even their stills were different...The French Rum stills were based on the Brandy Stills, the British on the Whisky still etc. The biggest difference, that I can see was WHAT was fermented by each of these produces.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

So back to Spanish Rum...it was produced in Cuba, Dominican Republic/Haiti (Hispaniola) Costa Rica, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Panama, Columbia, Ecuador and Peru, they all made Spanish Rum...Puerto Rico at one time did also, however that changed when they became an American Protectorate and the rum industry was Anglicized...Brazil also makes a rum called Cachaça...I don't know where this falls. The Spanish Rum makers used cane juice and some of the dross/foam/muck that was left over after the refining processes. This addition left the appearance of a very high ABV but I'm guessing that most of the refining crud was unfermentable and left a wash with a very high final SG...it may have appeared to have a potential 20% ABV but maybe half of this was not fermentable.
I have a two books from a five series printed in the 80's called "Spirits of the world" I liked it because the authors attempted to go quite deep into understanding how different spirits were made...(one of the problems I have with books in general, is that a lot of the topics are handled in very general and vague terms) I don't know how accurate the info is...any input is welcome and please feel free to call Bullshi# on any of this...
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

OK. This is the kind of conversation is was hoping would ensue from my post. We have some very knowledgeable folks weighing in.

der wo, yes, I have read about the Zacapa folks using cane “honey”. That and all the glowing posts here is what led me to panela. I was assuming that would be as close as I could get to cane honey. As I wrote above, the first batch I made for my new still was 100 pct panela. I have the results aging at 65 pct on charred oak now.

I was really glad to see Saltbush, I believe, say that he hasn’t found a rum drinkable off the still. That has been my experience the last year and I just thought it was something I was doing wrong. I’ve been using a friend’s small, column unit. I’d only done three or four batches and never aged anything longer than 6 months. It was greatly improved over the fresh, “moonshine” tasting rum off the still. But, for some reason it always seemed to disappear and I could never remember where it went! :lol: Now that I can control my own hobby, I plan to set some up for long term aging.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

Maybe we don't know much from the past, but we know how they make it today: Almost every Rum is distilled in a continuos column. And then there are a few potstills with two thumpers and perhaps somewhere a system more similar to Scotch or brandy. And almost every Rum is made from molasses.
Yes, Cachaça is fermented cane juice. Outside Brazil this style is named "Rum agricole". But the amount of produced Rum agricole is very low in comparision to molasses Rum. Why? Of course mainly because of economical reasons. And sometimes because of laws: In Cuba it's forbidden to use sugar for Rum ferments, the politics want that only the waste gets fermented. And in war times in Europe they forbid to make alcohol from starch, because it's not good when one half of the people starves and the other half drinks alcohol. The only allowed alcohol was from fruits overproduction.
All the big companies like Bacardi produce molasses Rum. And all are distilled in long columns:
http://bacardicuba.net/a-150-year-old-r ... the-world/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Bacardi derives its molasses from a variety of global sources ... Bacardi allows these ingredients to ferment for a period of 20 to 30 hours while carefully monitoring the process. Its distillers use hydrometers to periodically check the mash’s sugar levels, employing computer systems to main a temperature below 38 degrees Celsius/100 degrees Fahrenheit. When complete, fermentation yields a mash with an ABV between 10 and 12 percent.

In creating BACARDÍ rum, Don Facundo pioneered a new method of distillation. His “Parallel Process” involved distilling two rum bases from two separate mashes, aging them individually and then blending them together to create the perfect combination. Bacardi continues to blend his two bases: Redestilado and Aguardiente.

The former is a light, dry rum distilled through five stainless steel columns, while the latter is a fruity, full-bodied rum with more robust flavors. Aguardiente is distilled in a column still made of copper and cast iron and ranges from 70 to 80 percent ABV, while Redestilado is generally between 92.5 and 94.5 percent alcohol. The Maestros De Ron BACARDÍ carefully blend Redestilado and Aguardiente to create BACARDÍ Superior, but not before both bases undergo the aging process.


So Bacardi makes with 5 columns almost neutral Rum and with one column heavy Rum. Probably the cheapest bottle is the one with the highest amount of neutral Rum.

They import molasses, I import molasses. Seems easy to make the same wash like them or other molasses Rum companies.

"foam" aka skimmings is only used in Rum producing sugar plantations. Skimmings is not worth enough to transport it a long way. And if your plantation is too small for your molasses need, so that you import much, the content and impact of skimmings in and on your wash is low. Same with cane juice, it's too expensive to transport. It's more economical to make sugar from it where it grows and then to transport it. Or to make Rum. This is why it's named "agricole" (agricole = agricultural).

I am not sure, if panela is cane juice minus water. Panela is caramelized (more or less, you can get very dark and very light panela or jaggery), cane juice not. Compare the flavor of sugar with caramel. Or of grapes with raisins. When you make one mash with grapes and a second with raisins and water to the same SG, which distillate will taste more intense? By far the grapes distillate. The drying process produces some flavors, but much more it evaporates some.
Without fresh cane juice no Rum agricole. Because it's not easy to get it here, I concentrate on molasses Rum. And did you ever drink Rum agricole or Cachaca? It's far away from typical Rum. I miss the molasses flavor but there is a nice freshness and something interesting strange a bit like Tequila. Total different. For me it's not Rum.

Ok, I now understand the "high potential" thing. for me a high SG is no high potential if I know before it will finish at 1.050 or something. But such high FG you get only if you ferment an all molasses Rum. Something like 80% panela and 20% molasses will ferment almost down to 1.000.

And thanks for the history details I didn't know.


My conclusion: Raw cane sugar or panela has of course less flavor than molasses, but also less than fresh cane juice. Even if I would get cheap and good fresh cane juice, I would prefer molasses.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

GCB3 wrote:der wo, yes, I have read about the Zacapa folks using cane “honey”. That and all the glowing posts here is what led me to panela. I was assuming that would be as close as I could get to cane honey. Agreed. But the other products you mentioned are from molasses.

I was really glad to see Saltbush, I believe, say that he hasn’t found a rum drinkable off the still. That has been my experience the last year and I just thought it was something I was doing wrong. I think if it's undrinkable it's distilled too low. But yes of course, every distillate gets better with a few months or years. I don't know what "undrinkable" means for Saltbush or for you.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

Also, on aging and finishing. It seems to me that many commerical rums have what seem to be a lot of additives. Some are so sweet to my palate that I can barely drink them, ex. some of the Abuelo’s. I think the Plantation 20th Aniversory is a nice drink, but, it seems a little manufactured to me.
When I first started my rum habit, I assumed that I was drawn to and drinking “pure” rums, as Saltbush said, “Good Rum is made with 100% molasses, Oak and time. Not with additives.”. My research is leading me to believe that there aren’t many “pure rums” commerically produced. A while back I came across a thread that said the Zacapa folks use all kinds of finishes. Can’t say if this is true or not. But, whatever they do, I sure do like it.

My first batch of rum was moly and turbinado. I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. Used turbo yeast, turbo carbon, turbo clear and any frigging other turbo thing the guy at the brew shop could sell me. I was expecting a lot of decent rum right off the still. We sampled the cuts right off the still (no airing) and made our blending decisions right then and there. You can imagine how that worked out. I put it on oak for about two weeks. It wasn’t much better. I had read about adding caramelized sugar. It wasn’t good. I also tried adding 2 drops vanilla and drop maple extract to a quart. It was way overpowering. That batch went back into the pot on the next run. So, I think I’m going to let time and oak do months minimum and see how it ages.

Any advice on how to learn more about how these specific rums are made? Googling the rums has not yielded much specific info.

Would you guys do any “finishing”additives for a Zacapa type profile? Of course, the issue for me as a rookie is that it’ll be a while before I know if what I’m doing now is working! :wtf:
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

der wo, I also have 40gal of all molasses low wines waiting to run. I’m going to run it through the packed column for a comparison to the panela wash. BTW, both were fermented with Red Star bakers yeast to 9-10% ABV at 85-95 degrees. I used Pintoshine’s yeast bomb.

When I say undrinkable, I’m probably guilty of rookie overstatement. I normally drink my whiskey neat or with a few ice cubes. Nothing to disguise or mask the flavor. On the panela spirit run, I took samples from the hearts at 92 pct off the column and diluted to 40 pct. There was what I would call a sharp edge, similar to a lot of homemade white whiskies I’ve had. That to me is undrinkable. After airing for two days, it was better, but, I wouldn’t drink it or serve it to friends. I took pint of my final blend, diluted to 40%, heavily oaked and I shake it every few days. The color is developing and that sharp edge is softening.

I can’t speak for what Saltbush thinks is undrinkable. I really appreciate you jumping in here and sharing your knowledge, as I do for everyone else too.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

GCB3 wrote:aging at 65 pct on charred oak now.
In my opinion your rum will turn out a lot better using toasted oak rather than Charred.
Ive experimented a fair bit with different oak types and toasts and chars.
Having said that we all have different tastes and like different things.
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