Butter Rum

Anything to do with rum

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

StillinCanada wrote:Thanks for the advice, I stopped at 30 gal as the specific gravity was lower than expected , my plan was two batches of 40 gal in total. I used safeale be 134 yeast and did a starter with half mash and water. I did not add any nutrients as I thought the molasses would suffice for that. The yeast went crazy in the hydration jar which is why I’m so shocked that it has not exploded in the mash. I will wait another 12 hours for any change and give the yeast a bit of a chance. I do see some bubbles when I remove the lid. But I just expected so much more. I wanted to use this yeast for its flavours. But if I have to re pitch I will fall back to the standard bread yeast.

I’m just confused on the long delay, my birdwatchers went nuts right away!

Mark
Hey, if you're wanting butter you won't get it with that yeast, but that IS a great choice for a rum wash. Here's why on butter - butter is diacetyl (we've discussed this a TON last few pages), and here's the description of that yeast:
This NEW dry yeast is ideal for brewing delicious, refreshing Belgian saisons. The Super Saison yeast features a high attenuation, high diacetyl reduction, and low sedimentation rate. This yeast delivers fruit esters with a spicy bite, finishing thrist-quenchingly dry!
I have had some washes that were 9-10+ projected ABV take a 24 hour period to get rolling good though, I have definitely had that happen. You may have gotten yeast that was fine RE exp date, but maybe stored poorly/hot at some point and not in a fridge, too. Give it past 24 hours or until tomorrow morning, then pitch something else and use enough. If you used less than the recommended (each envelope/packet is usually for no more than 6 gallons of wash) then you might see the delay because it needs to reproduce enough to really get rolling. Especially if you dosed for 50 gallons but ended up with 80, then even though you used 50 gallons liquid, you have to dose yeast based on the final volume.

If that's what happened then you're underpitched and your yeast is going to try hard to get up to speed for that last 30 gallons. That would be a perfect explanation as to why you're not seeing it blow up yet! If that's the case, just get 6 more packs or whatever you are needing to make up for vs your pitch and the final volume of liquid total.
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
StillinCanada
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 am

Re: Butter Rum

Post by StillinCanada »

Dresden, thanks for the heads up, I originally planned on a full run of 80 gal when I did the upscale of the original recipe however i was planning on two separate ferments due to fermenter size. I ended up doing the one batch of 30 gal due to specific gravity and aiming for just under 1.070.
The yeast I had chosen was to compliment the Butter influence of the rum, with the banana and spice. I didn’t expect it to add more butter flavour. I pitched 6 packages and each package was more than adaquate for a 5 gal batch, so I had a good amount for the 30 gal mash. But I’m going to give it another 8 hours to activate before I add the bread yeast.

Mark
Learning and developing the skill of distilling, with everything posted on YouTube at Still in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY15HC ... 2OvAZu-XlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9677
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

84 f / 28.8 C isn't real hot for a rum wash, might get better results if ya bump it up some ....I don't do butter rum but kick my my rum ferments of at 35c and more.
Something strange going on there , most rum ferments should be going crazy within a few hours of pitching yeast.
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

Oh I see, you only did an equivalent 30 gal based on all those ingredients, got it. Per butter, butter flavors comes from diacetyl and that is produced exclusively by the yeast, nothing else is making butter flavor. So that yeast being specific to reduce diacetyl you won't get any butter flavor, or it's very very unlikely you'll get much. The butter process, and if you go back through a few pages, the steps we discuss and I sum up a few times, are to maximize diacetyl production because it IS the butter flavor. It's possible you get some, if so then you had your keys in line because of the yeast not leaning toward making any.

Also what he^ said, if you can crank that temp up to 90-95 do so, it makes more esters. If that gets outside the 'preferred' range of the yeast though, just hover at the highest you can for the yeast. No telling what it makes above it's range by more than a few degrees. I have a yeast that makes plum and banana flavors but it like a saison, and is something like 58-74, I wish I knew what it would do at 91F. But there's no telling. I could experiment I suppose, but I'd hate to waste money if it made a ton of high alcohols and I was very heady and then had undesirable esters created, like petrol or plastic.
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Butter Rum

Post by StillerBoy »

An update on the butter rum run done, as per outline in an earlier post..

fermented out in 6 days.. the brix reading was 13.5, (from a start of 22), and stayed at that level for 2 days..
racked the wash into the 7 gal boiler, and heated it to 135* F for 2 hrs, and let cool down until the next day..
since I could not strip it until a few days later, stored the rum wash in a bucket for 4 days..
run the strip run on Sat, and got 4 l of 45% abv from a 25 l batch, which roughly gave me about a 8.5 - 9% wash overall..

the flavour has some butter notes to it, mild in taste, but it does a butter note, certainly a different rum flavour than what I have done before.. have a few more batches on the go right now, and will be processing them the same way..

Will do the spirit run with some backset/dunker, and see what it gives me overall..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
StillinCanada
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 am

Re: Butter Rum

Post by StillinCanada »

Resolved! I found out my problems!
My first aquarium heater I used in my birdwatchers screwed up and ran my mash to above 130 plus degrees thus killing my yeast in the birdwatchers. I have ordered a couple of heating wires and PID controller for the fermenter which will be mounted on the outside but it has not arrived yet . So I ran to the local fish store and bought a new stainless steel heater 300w almost $90. Thinking the controller on the outside would be far better! it was working the first day and did raise the mash temp, then stopped working and shorted inside the mash electrifying the yeast. Some of it was starting to recover when I pitched the new yeast and discovered what had happened.
Now I have a blanket over the fermenter and the bedroom heater blowing under it. I can’t leave it unattended. But once up to temp I will keep it wrapped and add heat as needed. Bubbler is finally going crazy!

Mark

Giving his rum the Electric chair instead of walking the plank! Bloody hell!
Learning and developing the skill of distilling, with everything posted on YouTube at Still in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY15HC ... 2OvAZu-XlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

Hey Canada - that's crazy! Wow. It sounds like you're having heat trouble - take that stuff back and order this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071R ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You don't need a carboy. I have a 12 gallon white food safe plastic barrel from the farm/feed store. I wrap and tape it around the bucket (big bucket). It doesn't go all the way around, but it has a controller and I ordered as well a stainless steel tube and used food-safe epoxy to seal the bottom. Then I run the heat sensor into the tube, and sink it into the wash, so I have temp from the middle. I wrap a blanket around it all for high temp ferments, like 90s. It works wonderfully and is fantastic, I love it!

Wrap:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071R ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

stainless tube for the sensor:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

putty, safe for potable water/food safe:
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-1999131- ... pair+putty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Get those three and you're set. Otherwise just the wrap kit, and the sensor has a suction cup to attach to the side. I just wanted it exact and made a custom thermowell (the pipe) for the sensor!
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9677
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

A good vigourous rum ferment should make its own heat once it gets going, wrap it well in blankets and let it go on its own, it should finish out ok.
StillinCanada
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 am

Re: Butter Rum

Post by StillinCanada »

Thanks Dresden, I will be using a similar idea but on a larger scale, the Butter Rum size will end up being 2 ferments of 30 gal. That’s a lot of carboys if I went that route. But I use larger containers. I have already ordered the heater wire to wrap my big fermenter and will use windshield solar blankets to I sulate and finally if necessary use a blanket on top. When I finally get the parts in the mail. But for now the heater is doing the trick and all is going well now, finally.

Mark
Learning and developing the skill of distilling, with everything posted on YouTube at Still in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY15HC ... 2OvAZu-XlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
StillinCanada
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 am

Re: Butter Rum

Post by StillinCanada »

Saltbush Bill wrote:A good vigourous rum ferment should make its own heat once it gets going, wrap it well in blankets and let it go on its own, it should finish out ok.
Bill, I agree with you, except for the fact of living in Canada and having temp swings on par with my wife’s mood swings and I’m fermenting the larger batches in the garage. So some help is necessary, though not needed full time.

Mark
Learning and developing the skill of distilling, with everything posted on YouTube at Still in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY15HC ... 2OvAZu-XlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

Ok, so this has been on my list since I first saw this thread about 3.5 months ago.

Now that the weather is warming up here in Australia my distilling season is back on :) Managed to distill about 150 litres of normal rum last season and looking to do some experiments this season.

I currently have a 150 litre batch getting the "butter treatment" right now. I will hold it at 135F for a couple of hours and let it cool overnight and run it in the morning. Also have another 150 litre fermenter which will get the same treatment in a day or 2.

Has anyone aged this on oak and does the butter flavour still Shine On through? Ahh did you see what I did there? But seriously I'm interested to see how this tasted when oaked.
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

Ok so due to a miscalculation between C and F I slightly overshot 135F and hit 142F :(

Hopefully I still get some butter. I'll find out tomorrow.
Shine0n
Distiller
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:00 am
Location: Eastern Virginia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Shine0n »

I'm sure you're fine, I've had some on oak before...It didn't last long once finished.
I even nuke aged a gallon and it was gone within 2 months.
I had a large batch turn to vinegar not long ago, I kept 10 gallons of it and the rest went out to the field for fertilizer.

It's been way to hot here to still anything plus my work has me gone almost every week and home on the weekend so I have other priorities to deal with.

Been making a shit ton of mead tho.

I have 3 more runs to do soon enough and I'll put her away for a month or 3 until I have more decent weather to deal with.

Plus I just scored a 5'×4" Copper tube for 35 bucks so another build will be under way by years end.

Let me know how you make out brother
OtisT
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3180
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Butter Rum

Post by OtisT »

vqstatesman wrote:Has anyone aged this on oak and does the butter flavour still Shine On through? Ahh did you see what I did there? But seriously I'm interested to see how this tasted when oaked.
Oak does not seem to take that away. I have oaked a few batches that retained their buttery profile after a year. It is somewhat dismissed, but that may just be because there are other new flavors and smells to contend with.

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

OtisT wrote:
vqstatesman wrote:Has anyone aged this on oak and does the butter flavour still Shine On through? Ahh did you see what I did there? But seriously I'm interested to see how this tasted when oaked.
Oak does not seem to take that away. I have oaked a few batches that retained their buttery profile after a year. It is somewhat dismissed, but that may just be because there are other new flavors and smells to contend with.

Otis
Thanks for the reply. That sounds promising as I like my rum aged on oak for about 12+ months.

I ran my first batch today after it cooled down to 30C overnight (86F). I was multitasking while running the still today so didn't sample much however had a couple of nips and there was certainly a flavour change. I will let this air for a few days, a week if I can be patient and then make my cuts and sample the goodness.

I have my second batch getting the butter treatment. I was very careful and did not overshoot the 135F today :) at least I will have 2 batches to sample and see any change.
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

OK, so after distilling a couple of batches and letting them air for a week I came back to do my cuts. By taste of course.

My "normal" rum recipe is bang on the same as butter rum (without the 135F treatment of course). So this gives me a good base line for a comparison.

My distillate does have some butter flavour but what took me by surprise is that all other flavours are amplified. It actually reminds me a lot of and accidental experiment I did with an extended warm up time. I don't seem to be getting the huge butter hit others are talking about, but certainly getting some of it.

I have another 300 litres which has just finished fermentation. I'm debating giving them the butter treatment too. Then age the lot for 12 months.
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

I stumbled onto a huge butter dump by mashing in my last two rums. Here's what I did (it's simple):

After filling my pot there was about an inch of liquid, then the trub (dead yeast and settled sediment stuff) under that. I poured out the liquid, and then dumped a gallon of water on the trub and mixed it up really well. Then I dumped this into a pot and boiled it, adding 2 more tblsp baking yeast (for food), a couple tablespoons of lime juice, and non-liquid sugar I was using to mash in. Coconut sugar and turbinado in one case, panela in the other. Brought it to a boil before adding the sugar, then stirring constantly to a boil again, then dumped this gallon into my fermenter with the other contents already there so as not to melt my fermenter or risk it.

Both batches turned out SUPER buttery, I believe it's from the dead yeast, diacetyl that was in it, as well as the trub is acidic already so both those batches were at 5.0 and 4.6PH respectively with no need for starting PH adjustment. But without the pre cook heatup or anything I got a lot LOT of butter in my two runs. I'd suggest this method be added to get more butter. Both ferments were at 92F and took about 2 weeks to finish.
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
johnnyv
Novice
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Butter Rum

Post by johnnyv »

Your butter will be mostly diacetyl which comes from α-acetolactate via chemical breakdown.
Diacetyl BP 88 °C and has ethanol 73.9 °C and water 78.5 °C azeotropes.
Yeast cells can absorb and metabolise diacetyl to acetoin which provides energy to the cell.
Acetoin also smells like butter but is far less volatile than diacetyl while also having a higher detection threshold. BP 143.6 °C but also has a water 99.87 °C azeotrope.

Acetoin odor threshold: 800 ppb
Diacetyl odor threshold: 2.3-6.5 ppb flavour threshold: 5 ppb
ppb = parts per billion.

High temp and low pH favour the conversion of α-acetolactate to diacetyl.
Yeast produce α-acetolactate as an intermediate in the production of the amino acid valine, some of this spills from the cell into the wash.

Factors to increase diacetyl in wash:
High temp
High yeast pitching rates
Low wash amino acid content(eg DAP instead of amino acid source)
Not using up all the sugars in a wash, yeast avoid utilising other energy sources while there is still glucose or fructose(mainly glucose controls this)
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

johnnyv wrote:Factors to increase diacetyl in wash:
High temp
High yeast pitching rates
Low wash amino acid content(eg DAP instead of amino acid source)
Ha all 3 of these I noted as steps for making butter/diacetyl! Awesome

can you comment on these?
PROTOCOLS UPDATE:
DO NOT use servomyces!
low nitrogen (not adding "yeast" nutrients, or at least not nitro)
over pitching yeast
oxygenate!
more acidic mash environment (5.0-5.5)
dry active yeast produce more diacetyl (water only hydrate)
high temperature environment (90F ferment)
heat up to 135 as close to end of ferment as possible, and hold for 2 hours then cool (Stir often during heat up)
run wash as close to end of ferment and as soon as possible after two hour heat and cool down
Trying to make this work everytime for anyone...
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
johnnyv
Novice
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Butter Rum

Post by johnnyv »

distiller_dresden wrote:
can you comment on these?
PROTOCOLS UPDATE:
DO NOT use servomyces! It claims to lower diacetal so yes avoid
low nitrogen (not adding "yeast" nutrients, or at least not nitro) Don't add valine or sources of valine, but you must have a nitrogen source, glutamine is yeast preference followed by ammonia. If the yeast don't make valine there will be negligible diacetal
over pitching yeast Yes
oxygenate! Yeast can produce valine under aerobic or anaerobic conditions but it is easier under aerobic due to lower nutrient requirements like sterols and unsaturated fatty acids
more acidic mash environment (5.0-5.5) Yes
dry active yeast produce more diacetyl (water only hydrate) Live non-mutated yeast grow fast, so high valine output
high temperature environment (90F ferment) Yes
heat up to 135 as close to end of ferment as possible, and hold for 2 hours then cool (Stir often during heat up) Yes, dead yeast can't turn diacetal into acetoin, also any remaining α-acetolactate will favour breakdown to diacetal at higher temps
run wash as close to end of ferment and as soon as possible after two hour heat and cool downAbsolutely, avoid the acetal rest!
Trying to make this work everytime for anyone...
Basically do the exact opposite of what a beer maker does! Except for allowing Pediococcus and Lactobacillus infections as you may get way more diacetal then you can stomach, high levels apparently taste rancid.

One other thought, respiratory mutant yeast can not metabolise diacetal, if you keep reusing your yeast you may eventually get a high diacetal wash, but the downside is slow fermentation and other changes in metabolite concentrations which may not be good for the end product.

Nutritional Control of Growth and Development in Yeast
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3430547/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Factors involved in anaerobic growth of Saccharomyces cerevisiae
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... 2/yea.1430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

SOME FACTORS AFFECTING THE CONCENTRATION OF DIACETYL IN BEER
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... .tb02952.x" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

vqstatesman wrote:OK, so after distilling a couple of batches and letting them air for a week I came back to do my cuts. By taste of course.

My "normal" rum recipe is bang on the same as butter rum (without the 135F treatment of course). So this gives me a good base line for a comparison.

My distillate does have some butter flavour but what took me by surprise is that all other flavours are amplified. It actually reminds me a lot of and accidental experiment I did with an extended warm up time. I don't seem to be getting the huge butter hit others are talking about, but certainly getting some of it.

I have another 300 litres which has just finished fermentation. I'm debating giving them the butter treatment too. Then age the lot for 12 months.

I feel obligated to provide my update as so much work and experimenting has been done by the OP and followers...

I have ran a total of 5 batches so far. Initially I didn't feel I was getting the same big butter hit that others talk of. I was doing my cuts on the last batch yesterday and did feel that there was certainly more of what I would call butterscotch in the run, it seemed to be more pronounced in the mid to late hearts and into early tails. I normally get some butterscotch in all my rum. It was just more pronounced this time.

This rum is almost 100% same as my normal recipe however I don't normally do the 135F hold. This being the case I assumed "Butter Rum" would be close to my usual rum and maybe a little better. So I decided I would do enough batches to put away 50 litres (13.2 gallons) @ 65ABV and put it on oak for a year or more. To meet my goal I have one last batch to distill.

Normally I do long ferments 1 week minimum, normally 1-1.5 week. Normally start off around 30C and let nature take its course which usually results in 3 days around 30 and then slowly cools off.

For my last ferment/distill I plan on fermenting at 30-35C and keeping it at or above 30C for a FAST ferment. I plan on giving it the 135F treatment as soon as it has fermented out, so max 4 days fermenting. Let's see if this gives me more butter or butterscotch, maybe this is the secret?. I'll report back.

To all those who have managed to replicate the movie theatre butted popcorn flavours well done :)
Shine0n
Distiller
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:00 am
Location: Eastern Virginia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Shine0n »

Thru all my research and others, diacetyl can be achieved in many different ways.
Maybe the moon and stars align when I make it. lol

Either way, I'm glad you have plenty of rum to sip in the future.
If my work slows I'll be back on it but for now I don't have time for nothing but work, that's a good thing!
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by vqstatesman »

Maybe more of the "butter" will become more prominent after oak and age. Everyone's tastebuds work different.
Shine0n
Distiller
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:00 am
Location: Eastern Virginia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Shine0n »

Amen :thumbup:
User avatar
Expat
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Expat »

ShineOn, first I'd like to stay thanks for sharing your findings so freely. The thread has been a great read.

I couple of questions if you don't mind, as I didn't see it come up in the thread.

First around the 2 hour duration of the heat. I wondered how you arrived at two hours and if you'd experimented with more or less time. Just the timing around the accident perhaps?

Second, to the best of my understanding, the desired flavor is coming from both, stressing the yeast, and from the alcohol acid reaction (esterification). For the latter, I was thinking it might be worth a try to see the results of doing the heat on the stripped low wines, or perhaps low wines cut down with fresh wash. Have you been down either of those paths?

I'm just proofing my last batch of my usual rum, after which I'll be giving your butter method a go. Just gotta buy a bunch more molasses :)
Last edited by Expat on Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_____________________
EXPAT

Current boiler and pot head
Cross flow condenser
Modular 3" Boka - pics tbd
___________________
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

Hey Expat, it's likely and true you're getting all good rum flavors, and if you're really lucky, or skilled and intentional, more flavors beyond rum, from esters. But the butter itself isn't ester at all, it is almost certainly exclusively coming from diacetyl development in the wash, and the heat up is killing the yeast to prevent the reuptake/conversion of diacetyl by the yeast during the diacetyl rest. Of course there isn't a rest, so it's theorized, by us, that this is causing the yeast to 'dump' any diacetyl they currently have absorbed, and then the cook right after so they/there is no chance for the diacetyl to go anywhere and it is all captured in the distillation.

Another option post distillation with aging is using cherry or birch, slowly toasted to medium to preserve the sugars, because they both have diacetyl in them that they will dump into spirits they age into. Birch will cause a straight butter flavor, with cherry causing a more 'butterscotch' flavor or 'butter brickle' due to the differences in the woods.

But welcome to the party and please enjoy pushing the boundaries and figuring out how to 'hard-trap' this process so that it is reproduceable time after time by everyone, and can become, finally, a tried and true recipe!
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
MtRainier
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 689
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Butter Rum

Post by MtRainier »

ShineOn,

Just wanted to report on my run with your method. Used your method more than recipe.

I did a pretty simple wash of

2 gallons Golden Barrel Blackstrap molasses
10 gallons filtered water
1 ounce of calcium carbonate (probably not needed)
10g DAP
5g (big pinch) Epsom salts
1 b-complex capsule poured in
1/2 cup Red Star bread yeast from Costco sprinkled on top at 92F.

Ferment started out at 92 and ended around 85, heated with a seed starter mat taped to the 20g brute I use to ferment.

It started out at 1.093, in four days had dropped to 1.018.

It didn't look active to me (no tiny bubbles), so I transferred it to the boiler and heated it up to 135 a day before I wanted to do the whole run, Friday night. Let it cool overnight.

Then Saturday afternoon I did the run.

The first 300ml of fores came out a little yellow, and I swear were pure butter. It smelled so good I was sad to toss em.

The heads came out all butter and banana which stuck through hearts but decreasing until I started getting tails. Just after my tails started my boil puked up the column, so I ended up not collecting them anyway.

2 days of airing out and after rejecting the first 500ml of heads into the feints jar I ended up with 2 liters of really nice stuff. Full of butter, banana, caramel flavor and very drinkable right after diluting to 47%.

It might have a little scorch in it from sugar or yeast left in the wash when heating it since this butter method has you heating it and running it without waiting for it to fully finish or for the yeast to settle. It has pretty high viscosity. Nice thick mouthfeel. I'm sure it's full of diacetyl and might give me a headache, but it sure is pleasant to drink white right off the still and diluted.

You've got something interesting here. It almost seems like more of a method than a recipe.
Shine0n
Distiller
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:00 am
Location: Eastern Virginia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Shine0n »

I think you're right on with that.
I just happened to post the recipe that I had going along with the process.

I'm glad you like it and yea I do keep alot of the run, the mouth feel is crazy big that lingers forever!

I'm so glad you got the butter!

Expat, I honestly don't know the original time heated as it happened while asleep so the next wash I made I tried 2 hours and it nailed it perfectly just as the original.

I sleep maybe 5 hours a night and it was 90 when I went to sleep and 135 when I woke at 3 am so in between those few hours is when it went ape shit.

I haven't really branched out at all from the recipe as stated, I do other rums that I do stress yeast and add wash or dunder to the low wines but that's about it.

DD man I should've taken you up on the offer for more of your drinks in Pa. absolutely delicious :thumbup:
You've come along way in such a short period and I'm honored to have met you and your father.

Be good my friend!!!
User avatar
distiller_dresden
Trainee
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Northeastern Indiana

Re: Butter Rum

Post by distiller_dresden »

Aw shucks Shine, thanks man! That's high praise!! One of these damn days I'll nail the butter down, too, lol. I'm on a bit of a lag period. I had a bit of peach in my dunder with yogurt, cheese, getting it started, and I think some damned fruit mold took over my dunder. It wasn't even moldy peach, and it was like a gobstopper sized bit. Thinking/wondering I need to dump my damn pit and start over again..?

Anyhow next rum is gonna be STRAIGHT panela and 493 EDV at 92F, I'll try to butter it and maybe have better luck this time.

I think my spirits quality is a testament to the board and the info here, I read and research stuff into the ground and then I get goofy with my experimenting and mixing of mashes. I'm happy with what I turned out, but now I really want to work on a world-class sipping rum.
I read, I write, I still.
The must interstitial man no Earth.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Shine0n
Distiller
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:00 am
Location: Eastern Virginia

Re: Butter Rum

Post by Shine0n »

You'll get there big man, takes some patients is all.
Post Reply