Granddaddy: 493 EDV & 55lbs panela - cont. adventures!

[distiller_dresden]

Got my hands on THE yeast for rum. And plenty 'o panela to run with.

My first wash is fermenting now:
5 lbs panela, inverted
.5 gal dark grade A maple syrup
4 lbs date syrup concentrate (100% pure, no preservatives or sugar)
4.5 gal water
32 oz coconut water (for potassium)
15g 493 EDV at 92F
11g Fermaid K
2 Tblsp baking yeast, boiled
Tblsp epsom salts
2 vitamin B tabs, crushed
3 drops olive oil
4.7 starting PH

I learned from the manufacturer of Fermaid that in sugar washes, like rum or for brandies, basically non-grain washes, you need to use 2g per gallon of wash instead of 1. Also from the manufacturer of EDV (Lallemand, makes both) that the high temp ferments, 90+, stress the yeast and cause more production of esters as well as a likely slower ferment due to some yeast die off.

This wash tastes and smells amazing, buttery and caramel with a dark fruit background and it's rich and wonderful. I can't wait to see how this goes...

[fizzix]

Very interesting concoction, and had to look up EDV 493.
Where did you find this recipe?

[bluefish_dist]

I think 493 is the same as RM. use it all the time, last ferment topped out at 100. One of my favorite yeasts.

[distiller_dresden]

Very interesting concoction, and had to look up EDV 493.
Where did you find this recipe?

Thanks fiz - I made it up myself! I've been fooling with rum going on 5-6 months exclusively now and have one or two ferments going at all times, do at least 3-6 cooks a month, less over July and especially August as I'm in the garage and it's hot and stifling. I find coconut sugar making up a 1/3 of a rum wash, regardless what else you use, really adds a lot of flavor. I had distilled it on its own first, I have a thread on it under sugars, well I took over a thread lol. That way I knew what it's characteristics were. Did the same with maple following in footsteps and adjusted for a maple recipe I like, my thread 'pancake rum'. I also played with a recipe using malted red wheat and molasses, which has it's own unique creamy sweetness.

I am really excited about 493 - it is Lallemand RM, but legal reasons they can't say so marketing wise as they are a big reseller of many yeasts, including 1118 and a few others.

But rum is my passion I love it all, and I'm playing and experimenting and getting better at making a good distillation, as well as mastering domino aging and several different woods. I made an aged rum that's 5 months or bit more old that has all the character and depth of a premium sipping rum $40-60 a bottle, no heat, and good legs in the throat, too. Now I'm working on esters with lime salts, various carboxylic acids I've ordered in pure form liquid and salt, and sulfuric acid.

Got a custom dunder pit i made from a 7 gallon bucket with a tap installed 1/3 the way up, and a hole in the top with layered cheesecloth silicon sealed to the edges so it can breathe, but no bugs. Also tap is so I don't have to muss with the pellicle or disturb it at all.

[distiller_dresden]

Thought I would drop a note on the rum I fermented and cooked just before this batch (which this batch I'll be cooking this weekend) --

Last batch was 4lbs coconut sugar and 4lbs turbinado with 64oz of high quality/baking molasses using 1116 at 92F - it's been aging for 2+ weeks now and it has really gotten flavorful, more than anything I've done before. The coconut sugar brought a light floweryness and nutty creaminess that have combined with the molasses sweetness and the turbinado's own flavor, kind of buttery caramel. In addition this wash sat a week before I distilled it, at 92F, and got a little something going in it so that I even have some of that grassy funk going on that Jamaican rums are known for. I inverted the coconut and turbinado before adding to the wash, and the thing is just really aging off into something unexpectedly special...

One thing I've been doing with my rum ferments is draining off what's left after my cook, the bit of wash left, and then adding a gallon of water to the fermenter to mix up the yeast trub on the bottom. I believe this is where the 'grass funk' notes came from in the mash above, and I used the trub from that, which had 2 OTHER ferments trubs in it, for the 493 EDV date/panela/maple ferment going now. I think there are a lot of carboxylic acids in that trub, which is giving me a load of esters.

[distiller_dresden]

I ran the cook this past weekend - it came out interesting! I saved some of the fresh wash prior to introducing yeast and nutrients, then 24oz of this went into the thump with 8oz of feints for a charge along with .5ml of heptanoic liquid acid (a carboxylic acid, ester precursor). I did the cook slowly, it took 8 hours for my 5 gallons of wash. Early heads had over-ripe peaches and red plum in them, which laid off into light tropical fruit in the background throughout the run. This remained after airing. The flavor is interesting, it's not like my pure maple run and the maple or date syrup, nor panela, aren't immediately recognizable, as if they came together and created something new. The EDV perhaps at high temps and ester creation? It has a rum flavor immediately and sweetness, which I notice in molasses distillates usually after they have time on oak to develop the rum flavors. It has a floral aspect which is pleasant, and I've mixed in a bit of those heads with peach and plum in them so I know I'll need to age a bit longer to get rid of those higher alcohols, but I want those peachy/plummy esters I made because they are very apparent and really strong and perfumey. When I put my finger in those jars to taste, my finger continued to smell like peach/plum until I washed my hands some time later.

I know this was definitely well-developed esters then because I recently picked up a bottle of Hampden's Rum Fire overproof, it is 500gr/laa esters, and it has an amazingly over powering blackberry ester note. It does the same thing, dip my finger in it and it will smell like blackberries all day if I don't wash my hands. So all hail the EDV and using carboxylic acids in the distillation process will produce esters as well. I've gotten butyric and caprylic (octanoic) acids as well.

Next run will be a PURE all panela run, with about 25g of 493 EDV bloomed before hand for about 6 hours, run at 95F, and I'm gonna forgo adding any acids to see what comes from the pure panela and EDV. I will, however, be waiting a bit until my dunder pit is good and bloomed as the infections are taking hold at this point and I just added the dunder from this cook so I'm up to 6.5 gallons and re-balanced PH to 5.0 after adding that fresh dunder.

Is anyone wanting a 'sample' of the 493 EDV? I can make a one-use sample for your wash, tell me the size, and send it to you -- depending on size I'll come up with a very reasonable charge and postage included there. Not making money, just covering my cost. I want everyone to experience this yeast and be able to get into rum like I am.

I also have access to bricks of it so ask and we can work out getting you one, about $50-60 with shipping if I recall...

[distiller_dresden]

Well fermented the next run - ended up doing 10 gal wash.

1 gal baking molasses
.5 gal blackstrap molasses
8.5 lbs panela
8 gal water
20g fermaid K
2 vit B tabs crushed
2 drops olive oil
Hexanoic acid, 10ml
Butyric acid, 350mg
Heptanoic acid, 400mg
Propionic acid, 500mg
30g bloomed for 6 hours EDV 493
95F
*After 40 hours added .5 gal infected dunder


This finished off in 9 days, has been sitting since I was on vacation last weekend, getting cooked this weekend. Wash smells amazingly rich; caramel and berries and apples wafting off it. Smells much different and less sour than any other rum wash I've ever done. Excited to cook this and see what I get. Saved 24oz fresh wash for the thump charge, will add 8oz selected rums in place of 'neutral' to up ABV in thump at start.

[distiller_dresden]

Okay, so update! See here, I've acquired 'Jamaican funk' the grassy, vegetal, off-putting (but for rum heads) ester that those rums have in spades in overproof whites, or aged Jamaican distilleries -- specifically Worthy Park and Hampden.

I've done several batches of rum now with various mashes with the EDV, it's definitely the most flavorful and best rum yeast, IMO. It produces the right esters, can get unexpected at higher temps, and produces more flavor in my distillates. Planning low temp tests with it, like at 60F. I have begun to regularly under-pitch, using 4g yeast for 5.5gal washes, but I still hydrate and grow properly, then I also don't use olive oil any longer, nor do I oxygenate beyond pouring liquid into my fermenting vessel. More esters!

I can't recommend this yeast enough for rum. Currently have 3 gal of rum I've collected 60-70oz of 60% rum at a time, batch by batch, and I have 5 gal of tails only from all those rums, to cook this weekend. Hoping to fill a 5 gal barrel I got from Blackbird Distillery in PA, that they use once for their whiskey, 2 years I think. Hoping to get at least 1.25-1.5 gal from tails run, in 'cuts' product, to fill this barrel and forget it for a year or two, moving outside in the summer for that 'tropical' aging and expansion/swelling, then inside winter over a vent to do it's best slower aging. 2 years like that, I think, should be fantastic...

[Oldvine Zin]

OK all your talk about how great 493 EDV is sparked my interest. I've got a few hundred pounds of panela waiting to get processed and some empty barrels, so ordered a brick of yeast and I'll give it a try after I'm finished with the HBB goodness that is the current project.

OVZ

[distiller_dresden]

I think you'll dig it, especially with panela. An all inverted panela wash with the edv and my now double thumps actually netted me that grassy, vegetal Jamaican funk ester (if you've had it, you know!). It does really produce flavorful white rums when fermented at 85-94F, I plan on experimenting with it soon at low temps like 60F for ferment, see what happens, because that's low enough it should stress the yeast the other way/temp end.

[OtisT]

Hi DD. I’ve been following your rum work and hearing good things about the yeast you are using from several threads. I’m sitting on a few big bags of panela an will have to try that yeast myself. I’m in no hurry, so I may wait to see what OVZ thinks of the results.

Did your panela come inverted, or did you invert it? I haven’t bothered inverting anything myself for years and just wondering. If you did it yourself, to what end? Higher yield or some flavor aspect?

Otis

[nerdybrewer]

Following...

[Longhairedcountryboy]

... and my now double thumps ...

Hey DD, how are you using the 2 thumpers? What is your protocol? I have seen pictures of these double thumper set ups for rum, but have not found much info on how they are run. One picture I saw had the thumpers labeled "low wines" and "high wines". I'm assuming this means tails and heads in this context. I have the equipment on hand to run 2 beer keg thumpers in series with my boiler. I have 100 lbs of panela on deck for rum as soon as I get through the bourbon marathon I have in progress. I would love to try a double thumper set up for the rum. I just need to figure out how they are traditionally implemented so I don't screw it up.

[distiller_dresden]

Hey Otis! I directly inverted it on the stove in a stock pot - I had I think half as much water by weight as sugar, and some citric acid, got it boiling real hard, then added the sugar and stirred until it came back to a boil. Then I tossed in 2 tblsp of bakers yeast (to kill it, nutrient). Then I set my wash up with a total volume of 5.5 gal, pitched the bloomed yeast, and fermented at 92F.

As to the thumps - I have a 2.5 gal and a 1 gal. I put the bigger first, since it would require more heat to boil. Then I charged it with 96oz, and my gallon with 32oz. I've been favoring using 'fresh' wash for the charges, so I either reserve it prior to pitching yeast and nutrients, or I make a new batch to match the ferment. Then with feints (middle and late heads and early to mid tails, mixed) I get the abv in the first to 15-20%, and the abv in the second to 35-40% mixing feints with the fresh wash. I've found using fresh wash instead of fermented gives me tastier, cleaner distillate as well as less tails than fermented wash results, and I seem to get a bigger hearts cut.

This time I got a little creative and there was actually (24oz first, 8oz 2nd) my cherry brandy wash backset present. That I recommend, a bt of any fruit wash backset, because it is very very concentrated with fruit acids and just 'stuff' and I think this is partly how I got actual Jamaican funk esters from that inverted panela wash. I've only used 2 thumps once now, but this procedure I am quite happy with.

I'm cooking 5 gal of rum tails this weekend using a gallon of fresh wash I made with panela, maple syrup, and molasses - at the equivalent sugar content if I made a 10-11lbs (4500-5000g sugar) 5.5 gal wash, as well as some cherry backset, and then the rum feints from that panela wash for the ABV boosting.

Can't recommend the double thump setup enough for rum cooks; there is SO much more flavor in my distillate, it's just richer and more layered and complex with esters formed and raw, from the smell and taste. It was immediately a better white rum.

I inverted the panela to get more yield but more to just make it 'easier' on the yeast to feast. I have an experimental wash atm using corn syrup alone as the sugar source, because fructose/glucose.

In the near future I'm also going to experiment with using dunder, infected or non, in my thumps, again instead of fermented wash. I think this could really amp up flavor like crazy as well as create lots of esters as it is a concentrated source free of the alcohol that I've found in thump use can often pull tails early, or give the distillate a slight sourness that doesn't air out completely. I think something about straight wash, the 'beer' of molasses or whatever your wash sugar was, can 'skunk' distillate for lack of a better word, as compared to using the fresh wash and feints (or in a pinch a neutral, or even a flavored neutral if you want to get fancy -- cherry brandy cook, cherry vodka to boost abv -- and if you want to be extravagant, use rum to spike the thump ABV)

[distiller_dresden]

Updating here - I really absolutely LOVE 493 for rum ferments.

Latest rum cook recipe wash posted at end here: viewtopic.php?f=101&t=73274

Updating here on carboxylic fatty acids, like heptanoic acid or other mentioned there or above here, and my discoveries so far. My strongest result yet was the wash at the link, with about 2g benzoic acid, which makes vanilla esters. I got vanilla esters on the nose and palate from the worm and after cuts they're noticeable in my keep, like I had a been in it, but not quite as severe. Also some balsamic flavors. However, I believe a balance is necessary adding these CA's to your wash - it will develop esters during ferment and cook, but in the late hearts/early tails things get quite acidic so that even through my all copper system (and 2 copper thumps) the tails have a very distinct acid bite, like sprite or 7up bite of the citric acid on the tongue. From past use of other CA's, this leads me to conclude that in washes you don't want to use any more than 5-600mg TOTAL all CA's, more than that and you can get this turn toward acidity that can invade your late hearts.

I'll be trying a batch soon with 500mg total mix, balanced even, of all my CA's, and see what comes out - hoping it's a really complex and higher ester rum the 'science' way. BTW, by my reckoning this is 1-150mg per gallon wash volume of any and all added carboxylic acids.

[Oldvine Zin]

I just started a panela wash and waiting for it to cool before I pitch, I have to say the 493 yeast has some great aromas going on as it hydrates. Looking forward to taste what it produces


OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

And wow while not quite finished fermenting the aromas coming off the wash are amazing, I may never go back to bakers yeast.

OVZ

[nerdybrewer]

And wow while not quite finished fermenting the aromas coming off the wash are amazing, I may never go back to bakers yeast.

OVZ

Ok, I'll bite.
Do I just go to the local supply and get some of this 493 or what?

[Saltbush Bill]

Some home brew shops stock it , some don't ,last I looked you could order it on line from different places.

[distiller_dresden]

It's available down under, but hard as hell to get in NA. I got a line on it and can help some people out; I gotta order bricks of it to get hold, though, so I'd 'sell' it pretty much at cost in either 250g or 500g shipments. PM me to set something up, unless I get tens and tens of responses - which I'll still try to help, but gonna require patience from people.

[Oldvine Zin]

And wow while not quite finished fermenting the aromas coming off the wash are amazing, I may never go back to bakers yeast.

OVZ

Ok, I'll bite.
Do I just go to the local supply and get some of this 493 or what?

Wish it was easier to find, but it's a bit like the holy grail lol.
Nerdy PM pending

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

Racked out the panela wash and it sure smells great - going to run it it in a couple of days

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

Doing the strip runs now. I used to be a believer in using bakers yeast for rum(hey it's cultured in molasses) not so much anymore. The aromas coming off the still as I type are fantastic!! Two more strip runs and then the spirit, hope that these aromas carry through till the end.

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

Shit reading back all my posts are all about aromas- well just saying it's all about ...


OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

So after the first strip run it seems like the ABV is a bit less than I'm used to but the flavors are great

OVZ

[Saltbush Bill]

Have to wonder why the ABV would be less, 493 should chew through the sugars in molasses just as well as Bakers does as it is a specialty Rum yeast.

[distiller_dresden]

Did you allow that panela is only 80-85% sugar and adjust up?

[Oldvine Zin]

I've done quite a few all panela runs. I realized that I had made a mistake in judging the ABV as lower than previous strip runs. I was going by total volume collected, I did not take into account that I normally charge my boiler with 15 gals. For this run I only charged it with 12 gals because I have 48 gals total, so 4 equal runs.

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

just finished the spirit run on this. So it's all good and hard to tell if edv 493 is better than good old bakers yeast, I can say that bakers yeast made a couple of great loafs of bread a few days ago.
Collected 50 pints from this run and I have to say while most of the pints collected where great pints 48 and 49 had some incredible pineapple notes while the next sucked. A few years in barrel will tell

OVZ

[OtisT]

just finished the spirit run on this. So it's all good and hard to tell if edv 493 is better than good old bakers yeast, I can say that bakers yeast made a couple of great loafs of bread a few days ago.
Collected 50 pints from this run and I have to say while most of the pints collected where great pints 48 and 49 had some incredible pineapple notes while the next sucked. A few years in barrel will tell

OVZ

Congrats on completing this. I find this to be like so many rum stories; Wonderful smells from the low wines, and just plane ol rum out of the spirit run.

Was that spirit run done in the pot still, and was it all low wines or was there some fresh ferment too? I find it interesting that the pineapple came out at the end. Do you have an approximate ABV of those jars 48 and 49. Otis