BAD Pineapple/glue taste & burn.....help please

[Hoosier Shine9]

Back in July I attempted my first Rum.
It did not turn out as well as I had hoped. I was attempting to Butter it as well.
here is the topic..... viewtopic.php?f=101&t=71482
Long story short It ended up with some "strange" off flavor.
The flavor is spread through entire run. I proofed every jar individually. I am assuming that it is an Ester of some kind.
It has the taste (and slight smell) of Pineapple/Model Glue. It is VERY unappealing.... and virtually undrinkable
I asked a friend that owns an Artisan Distillery to check it out,, he originally thought it was "over proof" & was surprised when he checked it with his P&T that it was 80proof...he was expecting 120 or higher.

I am getting ready to do another Rum. I am planning on using the same recipe ShineOn's Rum viewtopic.php?f=101&t=70778 I am NOT planning on trying to Butter this one. I am going to just let it ferment, then run it "normally".

I am trying to decide If I want to:
1}.. add the previous distillate with the new batch in the boiler.
2}.. Take previous distillate add water to get about 7 gallons of Wash & rerun.
3}.. After running New batch let Dunder cool to room Temp add first Distillate then re-run.
4}.. Chalk first batch as a learning experience & "let it go.......down the drain"

Thanks in advance.....


hs9

[OtisT]

My personal experience with this is that the bad taste will not go away. I have one batch over a year on oak and it still has that bad smell/taste. I would not risk mixing the bad batch with a new batch at the risk of ruining the new one too. Possibly try diluting and redistilling the bad batch alone to try and salvage it. Worst case, you have some cleaner now.

And, the burn sounds like a bad cut, too much heads. Did you make cuts by taste, or smell? My guess is smell, and you need to taste proofed down samples on your next cut.

I wish you good fortune in the cuts to come.

Otis

[Hoosier Shine9]

Otis,

I collected in pint jars.
Decided cuts...hearts... by taste. Hoping for butter I was not sure of what I was tasting for. maybe thought it would mellow?????
Then proofed each Pint individually.
there should have been at least I or 2 pints in the middle that did not have "off" taste but......there is not.

[steelmb]

...I am trying to decide If I want to:
1}.. add the previous distillate with the new batch in the boiler.
2}.. Take previous distillate add water to get about 7 gallons of Wash & rerun.
3}.. After running New batch let Dunder cool to room Temp add first Distillate then re-run.
4}.. Chalk first batch as a learning experience & "let it go.......down the drain"
5].. Use as windshield washer antifreeze.
Thanks in advance.....


hs9

Waste not, want not.

[WeegieDistiller]

Surprisingly those notes can be found in Jamaican rums, acetone notes and pineapple aroma are quite common.
I would chuck this distillate in with another batch, re run it and watch your cuts as it sounds like a short heads cut made it very hot to drink.

[NZChris]

The flavor is spread through entire run. I proofed every jar individually. I am assuming that it is an Ester of some kind.
It has the taste (and slight smell) of Pineapple/Model Glue. It is VERY unappealing.... and virtually undrinkable

Are these jars aging separately and the nasty is in each of the jars, or were they blended to make your heart cut?

[Hoosier Shine9]

The flavor is spread through entire run. I proofed every jar individually. I am assuming that it is an Ester of some kind.
It has the taste (and slight smell) of Pineapple/Model Glue. It is VERY unappealing.... and virtually undrinkable

Are these jars aging separately and the nasty is in each of the jars, or were they blended to make your heart cut?

Each jar has remained separate.
Never blended. Never mixed in ANY way.
That is why I am almost positive it was not "bad cuts".
The first 4 were in the 85-90% range.
#5 through #11 just about rock steady @75%
#12 &13 were 70%
#14 started @ 70 then steadily dropped to 30%
#15 was from 30% to about 10%.
There is a definite molasses/rum flavor in jars 5-13. I have a feeling that 5-13 are the hearts, maybe even 14.
I proofed Jars 5-14 into separate Quart Jars, then ended up putting jars 5,13 &14 back in with jars 1-4 & 15.
Only "keeping" pints 6-12. Each one still in separate quart jars.
That is why I am thinking it was an ester of some type.

in the OP I think I listed my options "best to worst"
But should have listed them in opposite order due to probability.
and hoping for one of the first 3 options.

[Irishgnome]

Hoosier,

How fast did you run this batch?
I impatiently ran a raki that I make a lot of and noticed that a bad heat follows throughout. The burn made it seem like the proof wash much higher.
I call it heartburn heat. I reran this batch to see if I could get rid of the nasty heat and it worked.

I would run this on its own and maybe proof down with pineapple juice to see if it would aid in the flavor?!

Best of luck fellow Hoosier!

Cheers
Irish.

[NZChris]

I suspect the problem is caused by something you haven't thought important enough to tell us.

What wood do you have in the jars?

How full are the jars?

What proof are the jars?

How are you sealing the jars?

The esters you describe usually come over early and can't be tasted in the hearts, so maybe your description is off and the problem is with the molasses or another ingredient in the wash, I wouldn't be in hurry to put down another ferment with the same molasses and recipe.

[Hoosier Shine9]

I suspect the problem is caused by something you haven't thought important enough to tell us.

What wood do you have in the jars?
"sticks" are 3/4X3/4 about 5 inches long
How full are the jars?
about 800 ml in a Quart size jar so about 3/4 full
What proof are the jars?
80 proof
How are you sealing the jars?
Wax paper between jar & ring
The esters you describe usually come over early and can't be tasted in the hearts, so maybe your description is off and the problem is with the molasses or another ingredient in the wash, I wouldn't be in hurry to put down another ferment with the same molasses and recipe.

I have a feeling where things went "sideways" was me trying to get it to Butter.
I heated wash to 140f held it there for an hour. Turned off the heat and over the next 1.5 hours cooled it back down to about 100f.
then power back on to run.
I don't have my notes from my runs available at the moment.
I normally run at a rate of about a pint every 8 to 12 minutes so about a quart every 16-24 minutes. I try to stay about a pint every 10 minutes. So that would be about 3/4 gallon an hour.

[Hoosier Shine9]

I think what I am going to do is chalk this rum as "practice" & what Not to do.....don't attempt to do "extra stuff" until you have had success with basic.
I will not attempt the buttering process for a while.



I thought the recipe I used for the last one was a pretty straight forward easy wash.
Had seen that several people were using it & getting good results.
Leave it to me to screw it up

2 gal feed grade molasses (I used Evolved Habitat)
16lb dark brown sugar
Water to 15 gallon
1/2 cup bakers/bread yeast

[NZChris]

I heated wash to 140f held it there for an hour. Turned off the heat and over the next 1.5 hours cooled it back down to about 100f.

I take my rum stripping runs to 160F for at least an hour before letting the first drip come over and most of the strips get much longer, so I doubt that was the problem.

I've never aged at 80 proof, so haven't personally experienced what happens, but that is very low and may be the problem. I always choose a nice blend and age that, usually without dilution because my style of distilling gives me a heart cut at near enough to my desired barrel strength, the high 130s, around the proofs the commercial rum distillers barrel at. What happens when you age different sections of the run separately I wouldn't have a clue. AFAIK commercials don't do it.

I wouldn't usually recommend rerunning oaked likker, especially if I can't smell and taste a sample, but if it has to be done, this is what I would do:

Dilute it all, including tails if you still have them, to 50-54 Proof with fresh dunder.
Put all of the wood in the boiler with the liquor. Add some pieces of copper if the boiler doesn't already have some.
Distill with a pot still using Kiwistiller's guide to cuts.
Make up sample blends of your prospective heart cut before combining them into one container. Proofed to 76, look for a combination of jars that tastes nice already, only needing aging to improve it. I start with a sample of the obvious hearts, then work my way out, alternately adding from the next jar until I know I've gone too far.

[Hoosier Shine9]

I heated wash to 140f held it there for an hour. Turned off the heat and over the next 1.5 hours cooled it back down to about 100f.

I take my rum stripping runs to 160F for at least an hour before letting the first drip come over and most of the strips get much longer, so I doubt that was the problem.

I've never aged at 80 proof, so haven't personally experienced what happens, but that is very low and may be the problem. I always choose a nice blend and age that, usually without dilution because my style of distilling gives me a heart cut at near enough to my desired barrel strength, the high 130s, around the proofs the commercial rum distillers barrel at. What happens when you age different sections of the run separately I wouldn't have a clue. AFAIK commercials don't do it.

I wouldn't usually recommend rerunning oaked likker, especially if I can't smell and taste a sample, but if it has to be done, this is what I would do:

Dilute it all, including tails if you still have them, to 50-54 Proof with fresh dunder.
Put all of the wood in the boiler with the liquor. Add some pieces of copper if the boiler doesn't already have some.
Distill with a pot still using Kiwistiller's guide to cuts.
Make up sample blends of your prospective heart cut before combining them into one container. Proofed to 76, look for a combination of jars that tastes nice already, only needing aging to improve it. I start with a sample of the obvious hearts, then work my way out, alternately adding from the next jar until I know I've gone too far.

Thanks Chris.
That is what I was asking for.
I had pretty much decided option 1, was NOT the right answer. potential to double the amount of BAD flavored rum
Was afraid option 2 would take too much flavor out.
Thinking that option 3.....Fresh dunder would keep Molasses flavor better.
but like my last post stated....just junk it was probably what was going to happen.

My setup is a 4" copper column with 6 plates.
when I ran my rum I opened the bottom 3 plates, and only ran with top 3 closed.
I was trying to keep it at 160p to 170p however that took some fiddling with the Deflag water.

hs9