Flavor after stripping run

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ryno1234
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Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

I'm giving my first try at a rum after realizing that my pot still cannot reasonably hit the concentration levels necessary for a vodka (my ideal product).

I made 8gal of wash using
- Bakers yeast
- A very small amount of turbo yeast for nutrients
- 10lbs dark brown sugar
- 3lbs of white granulated sugar
- Filtered water
- Liquid B12

Started at 1.080 and went to 0.095.

I did a stripping run last night running the still hard / hot. I was expecting the molasses to come through in the flavor but it really just tastes like neutral spirits with undertones of yeast.

To be fair, I'm no connoisseur when it comes to identifying flavors / aromas (yet), but I certainly didn't get what I would think would be the base for rum. Out of the 3 different things I've attempted to make at this point, this by far seems the most versatile and neutral. I just wouldn't think that this isn't supposed to really be neutral tasting.

Given that this was my first run, I didn't have any dunder from a prior run to ferment with. I also didn't have any prior tails to mix in during my spirit run. Maybe that's why its neutral tasting.

Am I on the right path here or should I have had a very molasses-forward tasting product?
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Chauncey
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

I dont see molasses listed unless you mean from the dark brown sugar. Not much molasses. Just enough to darken it really. Try an all mollasses run or any rum from the tried and true section. Youll have better results.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

Chauncey wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:52 am I dont see molasses listed unless you mean from the dark brown sugar.
That's what I mean. From my reading, I saw that people were using the brown sugar if they did not have actual molasses. I was hoping to at least get in the ballpark.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

Youre gonna need actual molasses. The brown sugar really doesnt cut it, its just white sugar w molasses added to it.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

Check put panela, is a bit better
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

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Chauncey wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:21 am Youre gonna need actual molasses. The brown sugar really doesnt cut it, its just white sugar w molasses added to it.
So is that to say that I should have definitely had a molasses-forward flavor if I used molasses instead of dark brown sugar?

If so, now I need to figure out if what I have is complete trash or if I can recover it into something that resembles a rum. If I try to age and flavor the product I have, is it possible to have something that's akin to a rum?
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Chauncey
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

Re run it and keep the hearts for whatever you do with sugar alcohol and then use the heads to make molitov cocktails or whatever you do with sugarwash heads.

Did you do a cleaning run before this? If not save it for cleaning alcohol, make an all molasses batch 4x the max still charge, strip 4x and then spirit run all the low wines from those strips.

And never run a charge over 40 abv. Saftey related.


When stripping you should aim to have your total abv of all distillate down at least that far anyway. I run my strips till the abv of the total collection is like 35 or less.
Last edited by Chauncey on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by pope »

Rum character also hangs out pretty far into tails so besides the aforementioned advice, also make sure you strip deep enough into tails to maximize the potential flavor of your spirit run.
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Chauncey
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

pope wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:17 am Rum character also hangs out pretty far into tails so besides the aforementioned advice, also make sure you strip deep enough into tails to maximize the potential flavor of your spirit run.
What pope said.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

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pope wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:17 am Rum character also hangs out pretty far into tails so besides the aforementioned advice, also make sure you strip deep enough into tails to maximize the potential flavor of your spirit run.
When you say pretty far into the tails, how deep are we talking? I took it down to 20% yesterday (wash was 10% abv wash)
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by pope »

I would go to at least 10% for anything especially rum. I'm also no rum expert by any means. Do you still have the stillage (I believe that's the term - the leftover stuff in the pot) aka dunder/backset, try stripping some additional low wines out of it. Sniff out those rum aromas and strip until they're gone, if you strip to 10% and it's still smelling like rum, keep going.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by 80Vette »

Chauncey wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:22 am Check put panela, is a bit better
My bud makes a wash with panela and molassas. It produces a mighty fine run. He is going to give me a bit of his live dunder to get me started :D I'm basically going to copy his recipe, it's similar to buccaneer Bob's only substitute panela for the white sugar.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by 80Vette »

pope wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:17 am Rum character also hangs out pretty far into tails so besides the aforementioned advice, also make sure you strip deep enough into tails to maximize the potential flavor of your spirit run.
That is what I have noticed, I'm lucky enough to have a guy local who is showing me the ropes. When we did a run he was showing me where he makes his cuts for rum, he usually cuts almost all the heads, takes the hearts, cuts the early tails and keeps deep tails for flavor and to adjust abv. Any oils he wicks off the top of the jar.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by NZChris »

You get some idea of how little molasses there was in the wash by the very low FG. Most of my rums finish above 1.020

To maximize the flavors, ignore abv at the spout and strip until the total low wines collection is down around 24-27%, but I still don't like your chances of getting strong molasses flavor. Choose your heart cut by tasting prospective blends, not individual jars.

I would never buy brown sugar, because it's cheaper for me to buy white sugar and molasses and use them in the same ratio as what is in brown sugar.
Last edited by NZChris on Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

NZChris wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:34 pm You get some idea of how little molasses there was in the wash by the very low FG. Most of my rums finish above 1.020
Great point! I'm new to this, so great to learn new things that allow me to truly understand more about what's happening through this whole process and start making my own deductions.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Chauncey »

NZChris wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:34 pm You get some idea of how little molasses there was in the wash by the very low FG. Most of my rums finish above 1.020

To maximize the flavors, ignore abv at the spout and strip until the total low wines collection is down around 24-27%, but I still don't like your chances of getting strong molasses flavor. Choose your heart cut by tasting prospective blends, not individual jars.

I would never buy brown sugar, because it's cheaper for me to buy white sugar and molasses and use them in the same ratio as what is in brown sugar.
I was gonna mention that molasses wouldnt finish as low, too many unfermentables. Ive had good results with white sugar and a gallon of molasses per 5gal ferment but im not huge on heavy rum... it still passed a good bit of flavor nonetheless
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

I realize now that I'm not actually making rum based on these comments here due to my lack of molasses content, but I'm still having and issue with my flavor in general even after my spirit run.

This is my 4th attempt at anything ever, and none of them have been great. This run, which I understand now is basically a sugar wash, has been the best yet, but it still has a significant weird taste of yeast with a sweet smell to it.

I'm judging this based on what I sampled which came off the still at 80-85%. I added filtered water to get it to 40% and I put it through two rounds of charcoal filtering.

It still tastes weird. If I did have enough molasses to make more of a rum wash like I was intending, would this yeast-esq flavor still come through or does the molasses simply cover it up or is there a 3rd option that explains why I'm getting the subtle yeast flavor / sweet smell in the first place?

Trying to contemplate whether or not to run it through the still a 3rd time now or to throw it in oak and do a hack job at rum.

Thoughts?
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by NZChris »

You don't say how you distilled it, so I have nothing to go by.

Don't take much notice of how a stripping run smells, or tastes, unless it is obvious that there is something badly wrong, as you should be able to fix it with the spirit run. I seldom taste anything from a rum run until I'm choosing my blend of heart cut.

Did you have copper in the boiler and vapor path for both the stripping and spirit runs?
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

NZChris wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:05 pm You don't say how you distilled it, so I have nothing to go by.
I have a pot still. The flavor I'm NOW talking about it after a spirit run (my original question was related to after my stripping run). My max abv I was getting off of the still was 85%, my hearts cut (or what I think was a hearts cut) was 80 - 75% diluted to 40% for the sample I'm referring to.

I'm not sure what you mean about the vapor path however.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by NZChris »

All I know is that you have a pot still. It could be anything from a classy all copper alembic to a SS POS with silicone seals and no copper in it.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by TDick »

NZChris wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:34 pm
I would never buy brown sugar, because it's cheaper for me to buy white sugar and molasses and use them in the same ratio as what is in brown sugar.
I haven't read that before. Makes sense.

FWIW I was watching an episode of "Moonshiners" - I know I know.
I like Mark & Digger - sue me.
It was the episode they were working on a sweet potato mash & tried separate molasses, brown sugar & white sugar runs.
I don't know exactly what they we're looking for but the white sugar won out over brown for both fermentation and taste, and they said the molasses run was shit.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by NZChris »

TDick wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:53 pmI haven't read that before. Makes sense.
Sometimes it pays to read the packagings to find out what's in them then play with a calculator, especially if there are large quantities required. A while back, I did the sums on a large brown sugar rum that someone had put down and discovered that it really was a very expensive option compared to what I was paying for my sugar and stock food molasses rums.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Royco »

Try stockfeed molasses but check on what's in it. I did a full molly run and found way too much smoky, peaty, molasses flavour. Next did a 50-50 with sugar and still didn't like the strong flavours. Then I read up about clarifying molasses (mine had all sorts of stuff floating around, like splinters of cane etc). Going to try this next:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14053
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

NZChris wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:39 pm All I know is that you have a pot still. It could be anything from a classy all copper alembic to a SS POS with silicone seals and no copper in it.
Gotcha -

I have a 5Gal stainless boiler and atop I have a condenser with a copper worm in it and then a long copper spout coming off of that.

Again, trying to figure out why every single wash I've done has come off the still with a yeast flavor and sweet smell that sticks with it. It gets better each time I distill, but I would think either I'm doing something wrong or everyone gets this and its just not noticeable when it's covered in a stronger molasses flavor, or maybe that smell / favor goes away after the product sits for a while.

I'm just grabbing at straws, but my new goal is for my wife not to say it tastes awful, :P .
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Tummydoc »

Ryno, part of your problem is your small boiler size will result in a lot of smearing. I used a 5 gallon boiler for 2 years and really only produced marginally acceptable liquor. (And now I'd say it was unacceptable). Going to a keg boiler allowed me to run a 10-12 gallon charge rather than 3.5-4 gallons. Cuts are much easier with larger volume, and you're less tempted to keep bad jars because output is adequate. But i never detected a "yeast" taste even with the smaller boiler.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by Saltbush Bill »

ryno1234 wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:35 am every single wash I've done has come off the still with a yeast flavor and sweet smell that sticks with it.
Tummydoc wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:41 am But i never detected a "yeast" taste even with the smaller boiler.
I think what a lot of new distillers think is a yeasty smell, is the musty/ damp cardboard smell of tails smeared through the run.
Sweet smells to me are associated with heads, especially with Neutral type sugar washes like TPW / Birdwatchers.
How are you controlling the output speed of this still ?
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:58 pm I think what a lot of new distillers think is a yeasty smell, is the musty/ damp cardboard smell of tails smeared through the run.
I did consider this. I am new and I'm wondering if this is what I've been detecting and just didn't know how to name it. But I've been getting that (at least to some extent) even at higher ABV's. What would cause smearing?

I'm controlling the output by turning my gas down to low and letting it go as slowly as it can.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by ryno1234 »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:58 pm I think what a lot of new distillers think is a yeasty smell, is the musty/ damp cardboard smell of tails smeared through the run.
Sweet smells to me are associated with heads, especially with Neutral type sugar washes like TPW / Birdwatchers.
How are you controlling the output speed of this still ?
Confirmed that what I was smelling is indeed tails. I'm getting it throughout the run despite running it slow.

In my latest run, I had 23 jars, I ditched 1-5, kept 6-15 and ditched 16 - 23.

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Are tails supposed to be that long? Even my "keepers" had bad taste even after airing.

Thinking of throwing it all back in with my next run and just trying another pass at this but am also worried of loosing the flavor. Devils advocate would say "What flavor?". There was certainly nothing good in there and certainly no rum flavor to be had.
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Re: Flavor after stripping run

Post by zed255 »

ryno, white rum right off the still will not resemble anything you have ever bought. Perhaps the issue is you needing to recalibrate your expectations. I have rum that has been ageing on used oak for about 18 months in glass with a cloth under the lid to allow it to breathe and it is now getting similar to a Dominican / Cuban style rum. My white rum is pleasant but not much like aged product.

Many here will attest to similar, rum off the spout is often really rough and just weird.
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