Help with Rum!

[StriaghtJakket]

Hey Guys,

I would really appreciate any help at this point - I am now officially at my wits end!

to brief it starts with the below post, and my system is very similar to this:
https://www.stilldragon.com.au/potshot-p1-complete-2/
I cannot seem to upload pics- however this is more or less what you would see.
I also use a deflag at the top with packing for when I do a reflux run. (not this case)

Finally made this up! I have been mostly running Neutrals. Fermented out 3 x 23L washes's and Stripped well - with a couple of Pukes.
I removed the packing and the reflux condenser - ran it 'easy' - out of the 23 cut glasses it took 17! before the ABV dropped below 8o%
and then rapid decrease over the remaining glassed to No#23.
Not sure if i done something wrong, seems like most people describing hearts between 80 to 50%,
did the cuts today, Tails stuck out like a sore thumb on glass 14 @ 85%!
Is this Normal or was it run to slow? still took 7.5 hours for the 3 Strips with a broken pencil lead stream i guess.
Main thing - since i can go off Pugi's ABV guide ( and i never do - 1st time using a parrot ) the last 2 glasses are murky one is 49% and the other is 20% - would these be the 'rum oils'? i am assuming so as all 21 other jars are clear and these last to are a murky white/clear.

now, or rather a week or two ago, I stripped another 3 molasses washes (each using hot dunder from the last with some trub) and moved on to the Spirit Run.
after fores, out came 86% of spirit with a slight yellow tinge - after checking for a puke or anything left over from copper packing but all was clear??
anyway, after about 10 jars of very slight yellow tinge rum, it was still around 85% even when I cranked up the heat, eventually I got quite confused and deflated so cranked it up to full and stripped the rest.

i don't know if I have completely missed something in my process, or my type of Still is wrong but I can only assume that everything I am doing is correct.

Moving forward, I would greatly appreciate any feedback at this point - It is quite disappointing as I love my Rum and really want to get away from the Neuts+Essence rum and get onto the real stuff and experiment with spices.

Many thanks - SJ

[8Ball]

Make sure your rig is clean. Pick a tried & true rum recipe and follow it exactly. Do your required reading if you have not done so already. Strip it out & do the spirit run in full pot mode — just a boiler charge and an empty riser. Don’t exceed a 2/3 fill of the boiler and very slowly come up to temperature - like 1 to 2 hours. Use a knob of butter and some copper pieces to discourage puking. You should be okay if you do this. If not, you can post again your situation with helpful data relevant to the tried and true recipe.

[zapata]

Is the only question the yellow tint? Or do you actually have questions about proof, number of jars etc?

So far as the color goes, with molasses rums it's possible for some colored things to come over, like various oils and gums. Many will filter the distillate through a cloth right off the still, including pros. The molasses junk tends to stick to fabric readily. Otherwise it's in your still (from the 180 bend and downstream) or you puked. I'd throw the parrot away because they are generally useless, or at least run without because it's cleanliness could be suspect. Soak everything else in hot oxiclean FREE and give it a good scrub and rinse, including brushing out the condenser tubes. Ultimately if it's just a hint of color from molasses, all's fine that tastes fine. If you really want a clear rum, carbon will probably clear it up.

If you actually have a question about proofs and volumes, can you clarify what the question is? And provide all the details you can
like strength and volume of low wines, power input, distillate flow rate, stilling environment (outside in a windy winter? Calm 70 degrees inside?) . Without that info, anything is possible from buckets of 40% heads to a dash of 80% tails.

[MartinCash]

I get yellow fores and early heads when I make rum.

[CopperFiend]

Havent heard of a yellow tinge in any distillate personally. That strikes me as one of the pukes has contaminated your still. It needs a good thorough clean, ideally a deep rinse of all parts and then a vinegar run, followed by a sacrificial alc run (maybe just use he heads you took off this time) then chuck everything you got this time as 'hearts' and the tails below 85% back in and run it again. I'd guess your tails will be much farther down and you'll get more hearts. In virtually everything I've ever distilled, tails tend to come below 50%.

If you thoroughly cleaned the still after your pukes, then I cant think of anything else

[MartinCash]

Molasses washes boiling hard produce plenty of fine droplets that settle all over the inside of your pot still when you strip fast. If I was a worrying kind of person, I'd wash the still with warm water after each strip, but I'm not, so I don't.

A rinse before the spirit run might help, but I find that, by the time I get into the hearts, the fores and heads have done my cleaning and the distillate is colourless. In stripping runs this is not an issue at all.

IMO if you've cleaned it properly and done a proper sacrificial run after putting the still together, or when it was new, there is no need for more.

[Saltbush Bill]

For what its worth, after many many rum runs Ive never had colour of any type come over unless there has been a puke. A puke can vary from major to miniscule..and so can the colour it carries.
There is no other reason for colour in rum imo.

[Windy City]

I agree 100% with SBB
I have only had color come over twice, once with a minor puke (rum) and once with a scorched bourbon. That does not include the cloudiness of tails/rum oils
Your distillate should be clear. Clean your still again and try a anti-foam on your stripping runs.
Let us know how it works out.
As far as worrying about cuts by proof Don’t.
Make your cuts by smell, taste and feel.
Good Luck

[MartinCash]

...after many many rum runs Ive never had colour of any type come over unless there has been a puke...

That's interesting, I wouldn't call what happens in my still a puke, because it's lots of fine (1 mm diameter or so) droplets of molasses wash settling inside my lyne arm. If I put a couple of scrubbies in the vapour path just above the boiler, it stops most of it.

[NZChris]

What were the ingredients for the spirit run charge?

What was the color of the spirit run charge?

[StriaghtJakket]

thanks all.
I have had a puke when I first started, sorted that by smaller charge + vigorous mixing + knob of butter.
This defiantly wasn't it, cleaned the hell out of it using rifle cleaner on the shotgun even - super clean. the Tinge was barely notable, but there.
I did read somewhere that it may be oils, but, yeah, this was weird.
AND - when I got the shits and threw it into my feints - I ran a neutral the next day - crystal clear - and did not clean the still after.

but the Main issue is the Proof! from the photo above, I even used a smaller riser so bugger all 'wall reflux' could happen. it could just be me, but from everything that i have read and understand. the pot still mode should just start at around 80 and immediately - but gradually - go down.

the still charge was 3 stripped washes (1 wash = 23L- 6kg Molasses - 3kg raw sugar) which was about 10L at 40% + 10L of saved dunder from the last strip run.
I dont have a thermo on the still so cant say temps, as for power, i ran about 70% on a 1.6KW element, which is about a thin constant stream. any harder and it will be turning into a stripping run.

cheers -SJ

[NZChris]

Are you saying that your spirit run was half dunder?

[StriaghtJakket]

Hey Chris,
Yes mate - from most of the resipies I have read here, it says to add dunder back into the spirit run. Pugirum (the one i was trying) and pretty sure SBB said on a puking thread i read a few months back and Buckaneer bobs etc.

[NZChris]

Was it fresh dunder, or cultured in a pit? Either way, it seems like too much dunder and the wrong time to add it.

[StriaghtJakket]

No pit, just saved some from the last strip in a 10l Demi. from what I have read - you were supposed to add it to the spirit run??
I have stuffed up if not. but still doesn't explain the proof issue.
hope what i was doing was right - i was following the pugirum thread, but have read many other in the tried and true - that particular one stood out.

instructions as below;

Make the wash again and pour on to the yeast left in the fermenter. Then strip again. Add the 2 stripped washes into still with equal amount of dunder that you have saved and the RUM OILS

cheers
SJ

[StriaghtJakket]

I agree 100% with SBB
I have only had color come over twice, once with a minor puke (rum) and once with a scorched bourbon. That does not include the cloudiness of tails/rum oils
Your distillate should be clear. Clean your still again and try a anti-foam on your stripping runs.
Let us know how it works out.
As far as worrying about cuts by proof Don’t.
Make your cuts by smell, taste and feel.
Good Luck

thanks Windy + SBB.
I never do - but seeing as this was my first "major' attempt at making something other than Neutrals, I was checking the ABV throughout - especially to guide against what others were saying - for a baseline, as well as my own records of what is going on. I only ever use the parrot for stripping runs, cause who cares about smearing on a strip.
with the strip runs I have been using butter - and literally now thinking in the page - could the yellow from the butter be it? it was not oily, but clearly dissolved, and no separation within the solution.

[NZChris]

If you use the same method again, don't expect a different result.

[StriaghtJakket]

If you use the same method again, don't expect a different result.

sorry mate, you have lost me.
I have followed to a tee, but the guides call for

Run out hearts till you start to get the wet cardboard taste. On my still this is between 85% ABV and 50% ABV. Collect wet cardboard spirits and add to vodka/neutral container. Do NOT reuse these in you rum. For me this is from about 50% ABV down to 40% ABV.
Collect the 40% ABV down to 20% ABV in seperate container. These are your RUM OILS. Handle them with care and treat them special. Always add them to your still when you do a SPIRIT run and always collect them from the spirit run. The more times you use them the more concentrated they become. It wont take long and they will overflow into the hearts. This is the KEY to My rum.

kind of weird when almost the entire runs comes of at 85% - this is my main concern moving forward running my system.
cheers - SJ

[SaltyStaves]

Stopping collection when your charge equals 40% ABV means that nasty tails compounds in the wash will miss out on a distillation cycle. Including them in the spirit run in such large volume (because it was dunder from multiple charges) is why your spirit run tastes strong in tails.

with the strip runs I have been using butter - and literally now thinking in the page - could the yellow from the butter be it? it was not oily, but clearly dissolved, and no separation within the solution.

Molasses wash foams up significantly when it is coming up to boil. The foam rises up and leaves deposits on the side walls of the boiler (or worse). It then settles back down and then the early vapours pass over the deposits and cleans them up, carrying them up, then out the condenser. Same thing happens with All grain washes.

[Saltbush Bill]

I have read here, it says to add dunder back into the spirit run. Pugirum (the one i was trying) and pretty sure SBB said on a puking thread i read a few months back and Buckaneer bobs etc

Nope not me.....Ive never been a fan of adding dunder to a spirit run....or any other run.......dunder belongs in a ferment imo......not in a boiler.

[Windy City]

Do not add dunder to the spirit run.
Only use the dunder for your next ferment.
Add previous rumoils to the spirit run
Hope that clears that up (pun intended)

[StriaghtJakket]

Ok, cheers. SBB - no dramas, sorry to wrongly assume. I'm sure you can appreciate that this site actually can overload you with info and get some of it confused. defiantly when a lot of it is new.
I remember a few months ago I went to bed and when i closed my eyes, all I could see was the forum shape and colours
so no more dunder to the charge - I will also order some thermal insulation, good stuff for hot water ring mains for the riser and see if that helps with the ABV.
Saltystaves - no I water the low wines down to 40% - I strip down to below 20% line

[SaltyStaves]

Saltystaves - no I water the low wines down to 40% - I strip down to below 20% line

So its even worse than I thought. You water down your low wines because its higher than 40% ABV by the time you stop? That is a very poor protocol to follow.
I stop collecting when the ABV in the total collection is between 20-30% ABV. I don't bother measuring the last drop coming off the spout because that will be zero percent anyways.

[StriaghtJakket]

why is that exactly? what is the difference between stripping water out of the wash rather than adding it fresh?
I have read here many many times ( but mate defiantly happy to read your comment/method ) that collecting below 20% is the stop mark - beteen diminishing returns, etc.
Can you please help me to understand why this would be 'worse then you thought?'.
Is it because I am not pulling enough ethanol tails through the runs/strips?
Cheers!

[CopperFiend]

I'm a bit confused, I took this

no I water the low wines down to 40% - I strip down to below 20% line

To mean Jakket strips down to 20% on stripping runs and then dilutes the low wines to 40% before running them in a spirit run (the safe way to do it). Am I missing something?

[SaltyStaves]

That acidic water in your wash is of much higher value than the water out of your tap or spring. One of them contains the character of the drink you are trying to make and the chemical potential to create esters. The other tastes like water and will retard ester development.
The protocol you have been reading about is for making neutral spirit. As tasteless as possible. When making characterful spirits, it requires a different approach.

You also affect the end result by how fast and completely you do your strip. Slow strips and cutting the heat early, can leave ester-potential compounds behind in the boiler. Some of these compounds need to go through one or more distillation passes (in the presence of copper) before they can make a positive contribution to the finished spirit.

[Saltbush Bill]

Had a quick glance through your original post,
Seems you made Pugys recipe?
To much tails is the main problem.
I dont think you have really done much wrong at all......just the things anyone new to rum can make.
Molasses rum straight off the still is much harder to make good cuts choices on than the neutral washes that you are used to doing.
To this day is still agonize over my rum cuts before making them.
Airing your cuts jars for longer......at least 48 hours or longer will make the task easier.
Be sure to dilute small samples 50/50 water/rum when smelling or tasting to.......that will make tails detection much easier.
Id also recomend only keeping what you are 100% sure is hearts till you get a handle on things.
All of the fients bar foreshots can go back to the boiler on the next run.
Least thats what i do......others will have other opinions.

[SaltyStaves]

I dont think you have really done much wrong at all......just the things anyone new to rum can make.

As I understand it, he has stripped three washes but the total collection was above 40% ABV. He has then diluted those low wines down to 40% ABV with water. Then combined those watered down low wines 1:1 with leftovers from the previous strip. Then done a spirit run. That ratio of dirty wash to stripped ethanol is why the spirit run's ABV fell off the cliff sooner than expected and why it tastes like tails.

OP, correct me if I am wrong on any of that.

[Saltbush Bill]

Then combined those watered down low wines 1:1 with leftovers from the previous strip. Then done a spirit run

If that is the case then you are right......it would cause problems.

[StriaghtJakket]

Afternoon Gents.
Thanks for the feedback, both have given me food for the next prep.
Just so as I understand correctly, next strips I will do away with the parrot and run the 'striped low-wine mixture' down to 20% - rather than the feed in parrot.
use little or (none?) used dunder/backset with the spirit run. -would be great to have your thoughts on that also salty as I know you love ur Rum!
Manny thanks again!