My rum never tastes like rum

Anything to do with rum

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RockinRockies
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:30 pm Suggest you make a small batch first....it might not be to your liking .
It's gonna take me a bit to fill that barrel so I'll be able to get an idea start my first spirit run. If I don't want to age it I'll use the barrel for a peated single malt
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Finally got the Panela and it has now finished fermenting. When I popped the lid off the fermenter, I got hit with a blast of apple pie. So much so that I thought I grabbed the one with the apple wine by mistake. I'm really looking forward to how this comes out.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Distillusioned wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 pm
River Rat wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:55 pm
Distillusioned wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:10 am So, my Panela was supposedly delivered...only problem is I received pre-cooked white corn meal instead. So now I have another month to wait for the replacement. Arrrgh!

I wonder if "pre-cooked white corn meal" would be good in a bourbon mash? I have 10kg of it, and they're letting me keep it for free, so I have to come up with something to do with it.
The exact same thing happened to me last month. P.A.N. pre-cooked white corn meal instead of panela. I bet I know where you ordered your panela from! I'm going to incorporate the corn meal into a bourbon mash. At least we got something that can be fermented.
Try the arepa recipe on the package. Pretty tasty with butter.
Well I decided to mash the stuff with some liquid enzymes. Gonna try an all "PAN pre cooked enriched corn meal whiskey". So far it's looking good.

All 22 lbs of meal that I didn't know I was buying
14 gallons of water
Slowly mixed it into the 180* water, added some high temp AA and let it work for a few hours
Added some glucoamylase at 145* and let it work for a few hours
It ended up at 1.060
Threw in some bakers yeast and it's bubbling away for the last 3 days.

Even though it's white corn meal (and it's really white and really fine) I got the familiar yellow corn oil floating on top of the mash. We'll see what happens.
Plain ole pot rig.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by Toxxyc »

My rums tend to taste more like rum the more molasses I add to the wash (as explained before). Right now I work on a 75% molasses, 25% sugar by weight into the wash (cheapest sugar I can find). I then strip the rum, cutting fores during the stripping run as well.

The low wines are then poured back into the kettle, watered down to 20% ABV. I water it down with backset from the stripping run, and I usually have a bucket full of backset in the fridge for this purpose. I find it really helps to flavour the final product a bit more.

After the spirit run, the white spirit is left in an open container for 24 to 48 hours. This drives off the musty smell I find in my distillates, and provides a smoother hearts section. This white spirit is then "white rum", and tastes great in cocktails or even just plain mixed with coke.

I am not a patient man, so then this white spirit is aged on a mixture of charred virgin French oak and medium toasted virgin American oak. I sometimes just dump in a few sticks of random oak used for previous rums as well to help the flavour along. I age at 65% ABV.

I then spice and flavour the spirit, using allspice, cinnamon, cloves, aniseed, vanilla, raw molasses and some backset. I use glycerine (in small amounts) to aid mouthfeel. Within a month's time on this combination the rum is fantastic, and I bottle from there, proofed down to 45% ABV.

Final product is a rich golden rum that I really enjoy, it's cheap to make and great with coke (yes, not everyone's favourite, but it's how I like it). I make it regularly now and it MOVES between family and friends. I can make 2 gallons every 2 weeks and I can't keep up.

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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Toxxyc wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:59 pm . I can make 2 gallons every 2 weeks and I can't keep up.
Glad you are making something you and apparently everyone else likes .

But its time to reign it in a bit .
If you are having trouble keeping up with production , you are working too hard for the free loaders .

Give them a bottle now and then when it feels right fir you .

Might be time to rethink “Don’t tell , don’t sell”

Don’t let yourself get sucked into a place you don’t want to be .
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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You'll never have the joy of drinking your own well matured rum if you keep throwing it to the seagulls years before it's ready.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Yummyrum wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:01 am
Toxxyc wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:59 pm . I can make 2 gallons every 2 weeks and I can't keep up.
Glad you are making something you and apparently everyone else likes .

But its time to reign it in a bit .
If you are having trouble keeping up with production , you are working too hard for the free loaders .

Give them a bottle now and then when it feels right fir you .

Might be time to rethink “Don’t tell , don’t sell”

Don’t let yourself get sucked into a place you don’t want to be .
I enjoy making it. I'm not a big drinker myself, a bottle will last me 2 months easily, or more, specially considering my main drink (and hobby) is brewing beers. So this gives me something to do that I really do love, and I like "supplying the freeloaders", so to speak. I know these people, they do things for me as well (like I get to go on free hunting trips, I get help where I need it, etc.).

It's not like I just bust my balls and they get drunk off it all the time :D

But yes, I've got some aging products that I don't give away. My last whisky stood for a year before I found the flavours it developed to be quite disappointing (vegetal, almost like raw, wet wood), so I'm trying to see if it'll happen with my rum as well. Rum is cheaper to make which is why it's my main focus right now. The fact that the raw product from the still is fantastically enjoyable is just a bonus :D

EDIT: Oh, and it's not like I make on order or something. I'll make as much as I want, and then give it out to those who are around. That's about it. It also makes great gifts, specially in the upcoming season.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:06 am You'll never have the joy of drinking your own well matured rum if you keep throwing it to the seagulls years before it's ready.
I'm not sure if we get the correct types of wood here to properly mature spirits. I've aged some spirits (like the whisky mentioned above) for longer periods and it's like the wood starts giving a funky flavour to the spirit. I'm not sure why, so I'm actually afraid of aging my spirits for too long.

Eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a 25l barrel from a distilling place, but before then, I'll just enjoy my stuff a bit younger.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Toxxyc wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:40 am Eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a 25l barrel from a distilling place, but before then, I'll just enjoy my stuff a bit younger.
I've discarded the modern idea of of using small barrels because the ratio of wood to rum is too high. Aging isn't only about steeping wood flavors into the rum, it's also about all of the chemistry that occurs with breakdown components from the wood, the rum and O2 over time. I suspect that a small barrel, especially a new one, is unlikely to produce better rum than what can be made in glass with charred oak dominoes and plenty of headroom for O2, regardless of how long you age them for.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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+1 on that Chris
Barrels look sexy, but Rum can't see. :lol:
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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can't believe i've kept my hands off these..........
3 more days
20211202_163159.jpg
wish me luck :D
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:52 pm
Toxxyc wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:40 am Eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a 25l barrel from a distilling place, but before then, I'll just enjoy my stuff a bit younger.
I've discarded the modern idea of of using small barrels because the ratio of wood to rum is too high. Aging isn't only about steeping wood flavors into the rum, it's also about all of the chemistry that occurs with breakdown components from the wood, the rum and O2 over time. I suspect that a small barrel, especially a new one, is unlikely to produce better rum than what can be made in glass with charred oak dominoes and plenty of headroom for O2, regardless of how long you age them for.
Yeah I'm hoping to use the barrel for oaking first, and then as it "wears out" I can age in it longer and longer, but that's a story or experiment for a different time. Right now I use glass jars with oak in it, venting it regularly, and it works fine.

PS: I entered a homebrew competition over the weekend and my rum came in 3rd. I think it's nice :D
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:52 pm small barrels because the ratio of wood to rum is too high.
Small barrels have uses.'
All of mine are quite old and have done lot of work, I use mine for storing Rum that has already been aging in bigger newer Barrels for quite a long time. They are the last steps in my Solera system
A lot happens in those small barrels, the spirit really changes and smooths out......I wouldn't be without mine.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I've seen quite a few posts worrying about the results from ageing in a new small barrel, all of them about products that are years younger than what I have happily ageing in glass and still on their wood.

I'm sure that if I was given one I could make it work for me by using it to age far more rum than would fit in it, the excess being cycled through 2/3rds full glass demijohns with oak dominoes.

When barrels are broken in like SSBs, they are worth their weight in gold. How long did it take you to accumulate your barrels Saltbush?
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Been collecting them since I started this hobby , none have been new even when I got them, most had , had port in them in previous lives, mostly garage sale finds or Gumtree.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:02 pm 99.9 percent of all of the worlds Rum is made from molasses, no sugar added. IMO you will get much more rum flavour using it rather than sugar in the wash.
My God, 99.9%! :shock:
Pur vezou, 55°
Pur vezou, 55°
Have you ever tasted an excellent "Rhum Agricole" from the French Antilles? Guadeloupe, Martinique?
They are made from "Pur Vesou" which is fermented sugar cane juice, not molasses !
I visited that distillery in 1985, and it was still using a water mill to press the sugar canes. The huge still was heated by burning the "bagasses" that are the dried pressed canes. Another brand I do like is Rhum Clément, from La Martinique.
By the way, I have the same issue, I think I made a 'neutral' and not a Rum. I'm afraid my VM compound still is too efficient. I haven't tasted the different bottles I kept separated (30 x 500mL) ABV from 95.5° (@ T° 23°C) to 92°... Typical VM still behaviour, T° went up and output as well as ABV dropped, so I knew I reached the tails and stopped, anyway I got only drops... Distillation speed after the first 250mL, 1.5L/Hr.
The still improved a lot after modification of my Liebig condenser.
My recipe is a hybrid between Buccaneer Bob's recipe and Pugi's recipe. 10.00 kg molasses, 9.00 kg brown sugar from sugar canes.
I got a nice banana smell during my stripping runs, and the first 2X250mL I distilled very slowly at the beginning of my spirit run do also have some interesting flavour, but the rest seemed to be very neutral...
By the way, note there isn't any methanol in sugar/molasses alcohols, nor in grain alcohols as those washes/mashes do not content any pectins.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Garouda wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:06 am
Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:02 pm 99.9 percent of all of the worlds Rum is made from molasses, no sugar added. IMO you will get much more rum flavour using it rather than sugar in the wash.
My God, 99.9%! :shock: Domaine de Severin.pngHave you ever tasted an excellent "Rhum Agricole" from the French Antilles? Guadeloupe, Martinique?
They are made from "Pur Vesou" which is fermented sugar cane juice, not molasses !
I visited that distillery in 1985, and it was still using a water mill to press the sugar canes. The huge still was heated by burning the "bagasses" that are the dried pressed canes. Another brand I do like is Rhum Clément, from La Martinique.
By the way, I have the same issue, I think I made a 'neutral' and not a Rum. I'm afraid my VM compound still is too efficient. I haven't tasted the different bottles I kept separated (30 x 500mL) ABV from 95.5° (@ T° 23°C) to 92°... Typical VM still behaviour, T° went up and output as well as ABV dropped, so I knew I reached the tails and stopped, anyway I got only drops... Distillation speed after the first 250mL, 1.5L/Hr.
The still improved a lot after modification of my Liebig condenser.
My recipe is a hybrid between Buccaneer Bob's recipe and Pugi's recipe. 10.00 kg molasses, 9.00 kg brown sugar from sugar canes.
I got a nice banana smell during my stripping runs, and the first 2X250mL I distilled very slowly at the beginning of my spirit run do also have some interesting flavour, but the rest seemed to be very neutral...
By the way, note there isn't any methanol in sugar/molasses alcohols, nor in grain alcohols as those washes/mashes do not content any pectins.
Rum and Rhum are two different things as far as I am aware in terms of the base for the wash :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Sporacle wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:46 am Rum and Rhum are two different things as far as I am aware in terms of the base for the wash :thumbup: :thumbup:
Ultracrepidarian ? :crazy:
Rhum (pronounce Rom in French) is the French spelling, some places produce "Rhum" from molasses, but it then does not have the right to the "Rhum Agricole" Appellation ! :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Ultracrepodarian?
Not really.
So much debate and confusion about rum / rhum / ron / cachaca / Rama/ rrom/ Rama/ rom ( well,,,you see my point no?) is the lack of standard combined with regional colloquialisms.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Garouda wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:41 am
Sporacle wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:46 am Rum and Rhum are two different things as far as I am aware in terms of the base for the wash :thumbup: :thumbup:
Ultracrepidarian ? :crazy:
Rhum (pronounce Rom in French) is the French spelling, some places produce "Rhum" from molasses, but it then does not have the right to the "Rhum Agricole" Appellation ! :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
My apologies for trying to give input were I clearly had no right to it as I have not enough knowledge on the subtle nuances of language.
Really starting to think there a more people here trying to start fights than actually discuss distilling. Good luck to you Garouda, last time I interact with you :D
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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My understanding is that Rum is molasses based, Rhum Agricole is made using sugar cane Juice. The two are very different things with very different tastes imo.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:03 pm My understanding is that Rum is molasses based, Rhum Agricole is made using sugar cane Juice. The two are very different things with very different tastes imo.
Bill that's mostly true.
Perhaps the confusion / glitch is that the French pronunciation for rum is rhum?

The confusion is akin to the English word "brandy" as it relates to any number of global / regional interpretations of fruit based spirits.
Slivovitz (or any number of pronunciations) comes to mind.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Also not to dismiss single, double, or triple run passes associated with certain/specific types of traditionally recognized spirits.

If the base fermentation material is essentially the same, the number of passes through the distillation apparatus becomes a journey further down the rabbit hole of "phonetically" correct minutia.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:03 pm My understanding is that Rum is molasses based, Rhum Agricole is made using sugar cane Juice. The two are very different things with very different tastes imo.
According to a friend who very much likes his Rhum (he's french), Rhum agricole is ideed made from sugar cane juice, but Rhum is the generic term (as is Rum in English). The "agricole" is what distinguishes sugar cane juice Rum from Rhum industrielle or Rhum de mélasse which is made from molasses.

That's from a french point of view. For other languages / cultures you'll have to ask elsewhere.

But I think that if you tried to tell the french that 99.9% of Rhum was made from molasses they would probably pull out the guillotine. Rhum agricole is a product of the French colonies and they are rather defensive of it.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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The French seem to get defensive very easily about many things.
It is not my problem if people can not differentiate between Plan old Rum.......and Rhum Agricole.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:23 pm Slivovitz (or any number of pronunciations) comes to mind.
Slivovitz is a brandy made from plums, in East European countries. There are lots of varieties of alcohols in Europe...
A brandy is a type of alcohol produced by the distillation of a wine, regardless of the fruit used.
In Germany, they call "Geist" (spirit) a product made by distilling fruit macerated in pure alcohol, like Himbeergeist (Raspberry spirit).
The reason behind that process is the low sugar content in raspberries...
Last edited by Garouda on Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:13 pm The French seem to get defensive very easily about many things.
It is not my problem if people can not differentiate between Plan old Rum.......and Rhum Agricole.
They're very protective of what are considered to be "national" products. Especially if it concerns food or drink. ;-)
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NormandieStill wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:54 am
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:13 pm The French seem to get defensive very easily about many things.
It is not my problem if people can not differentiate between Plan old Rum.......and Rhum Agricole.
They're very protective of what are considered to be "national" products. Especially if it concerns food or drink. ;-)
Well Saltbush, wrong again, I'm not French but Belgian and my sole goal is to share experience and provide some correct information, I've been a member for more than ten years, but I'm not jumping on all posts, I'm not sure to be over a hundred...
And as NormandieStill confirmed it, Rhum is the French for Rum !
When it's produced in a certain area and from sugar cane juice (plus some other regulations out of scope here), it is entitled to the Appellation Rhum Agricole. But again, in France, there are Rhums made from molasses too !
Last edited by Garouda on Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Garouda wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:18 am
LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:23 pm Slivovitz (or any number of pronunciations) comes to mind.
Slivovitz is a brandy made from plums, in East European countries. There are lots of varieties of alcohols in Europe...
A brandy is a type of alcohol produced by the distillation of a wine, regardless of the fruit used.
In Germany, they call "Geist" (spirit) a product made by distilling fruit macerated in pure alcohol, like Himbeergeist (Raspberry spirit).
The reason behind that process is the low sugar content in raspberries...
Yes you made my point beautifully.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Garouda wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:18 am
LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:23 pm Slivovitz (or any number of pronunciations) comes to mind.
Slivovitz is a brandy made from plums, in East European countries. There are lots of varieties of alcohols in Europe...
A brandy is a type of alcohol produced by the distillation of a wine, regardless of the fruit used.
In Germany, they call "Geist" (spirit) a product made by distilling fruit macerated in pure alcohol, like Himbeergeist (Raspberry spirit).
The reason behind that process is the low sugar content in raspberries...
The French translation of Brandy is eau-de-vie, but with the associated fruit, eau-de-vie de pommes (Calvados - if it's from the right place ) and eau-de-vie de raisin (Cognac or Armagnac) being the most famous. This caused me much confusion when I arrived in France because I was used to having a bottle of "cooking brandy" in the kitchen and couldn't find anything to match in the supermarket. Pretty much all of the eau-de-vie de raisin produced in France is exported I think. Certainly the French don't seem to be buying and drinking it. The word brandy (IIRC) comes from the German for "burned wine".

I suspect that most countries have a specific name for a certain distilled product that is produced traditionally locally and not imported. The whole point of the appelations controlées is that they stop anyone from making (for example) Cognac anywhere else. You can make a grape brandy, and quite possibly, make a better one than say Martell, but you can't trade off the reputation of Cognac in the same way that you can't call your locally-made Cola, Coke.

Which all takes us pretty far from rum... so to return to SBB's original comment.
Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:02 pm 99.9 percent of all of the worlds Rum is made from molasses, no sugar added.
According to Maison La Mauny, 5% of global rum production is from sugar cane juice (rhum agricole). So you weren't that far off. Looking on the shelves of the supermarkets here in France, you'd believe it was the other way around. It's actually easier to pick up a bottle of bourbon whisky, than to get a bottle of molasses-based rum, despite there being a lot more rum for sale.
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