My rum never tastes like rum

Anything to do with rum

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OtisT
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by OtisT »

OtisT wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:23 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:32 pm I dont think there is a right or wrong way to make cuts, some prefer to taste , some to smell, some do both, I can smell tails a long way before i will ever taste them.
Agreed. I guess I can be too long winded some time, because the main point was not about switching him to taste. It was that maybe he should try smelling for what to cut out, not what to keep. I may be reading all this wrong anyway. Only 90 something today and already my brain is baking.
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NZChris
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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The depth of the stripping run makes a difference. For rum, I often strip until the abv in the receiver is below 27%.

When choosing the heart cuts, I only choose the obvious heart cut by smell, make up a sample of those jars, then add to it from the jars at either end, tasting and spitting, until I know which jars are one too far.

Aging isn't as simple as making 'oak tea' with your new make. Chemical reactions have to happen with components from the wood and that takes time, a lot of time. The process can be accelerated if you want to put in the time and effort to research aging trickery.
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Distillusioned
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by Distillusioned »

NZChris wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:31 pm The depth of the stripping run makes a difference. For rum, I often strip until the abv in the receiver is below 27%.

When choosing the heart cuts, I only choose the obvious heart cut by smell, make up a sample of those jars, then add to it from the jars at either end, tasting and spitting, until I know which jars are one too far.

Aging isn't as simple as making 'oak tea' with your new make. Chemical reactions have to happen with components from the wood and that takes time, a lot of time. The process can be accelerated if you want to put in the time and effort to research aging trickery.
My accumulated ABV from my stripping runs in generally around 33%, so maybe going a bit lower would help.

Making mini blends to see how far is too far is something I seldom do. I almost always test the jars in isolation. That might help me more than anything.

I have read about some of those techniques here and elsewhere. I don't think that's the path I want to go down. I drink my all-feints runs young and white, and they give me plenty of yummy stuff to drink while I'm waiting on the "good" stuff. I've actually developed more of a taste for them than anything. My whiskies (mostly all-grain; some flavored sugar washes) age to something that's pretty nice in 6-12 months with a charred oak stick in them (glass bottles, opened to air out occasionally). The all-grain concoctions seem to take longer to lose the funky smells than sugar-based ones. My oldest rum is older than that, and it still doesn't impress me. Maybe it just needs longer than whiskey overall?

Thanks for all the input.
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Distillusioned
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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OtisT wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:23 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:32 pm I dont think there is a right or wrong way to make cuts, some prefer to taste , some to smell, some do both, I can smell tails a long way before i will ever taste them.
Agreed. I guess I can be too long winded some time, because the main point was not about switching him to taste. It was that maybe he should try smelling for what to cut out, not what to keep.
I think that's kind of what I do. I've been known to exclaim, "oh, God, no; that's not going in the jar!" I suppose I'm also smelling for the neutral-ish smell of the hearts.
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nerdybrewer
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I've got the Kirk & Sweeney and really like the 18 and 24(23?) year old versions.
I also like Brugal a great deal.

The best rum for my palate is my own.
I don't keep fores or hot heads or very end tails but I do keep most of the rest.
I keep some of both ends and all the middle, that's all keep if it ages well and long enough.
It all goes in a once used (or twice if used by me before) ex bourbon barrel.
Recommend a small enough barrel that you can fill it up.
Let it age 2 plus years, then give it a try.
Age more as needed.

I've been using Panela sourced from Central America, along with water and baking yeast.
I do add some oyster shells to maintain a proper PH level.

After fermentation I will run it all fast and hot in a stripping run, since I normally ferment around 100 gallons that takes many loads in my keg boiler.
Once done stripping I'll have a lot of low wines in carboys.
Having saved back several gallons of the fermented wash I add at least a couple up to 5 gallons of wash to each spirit run.
This is commonly referred to as a 1.5 run.
The idea is to get more flavor in the end product.
After the spirit run I let the resulting spirit rest in carboys with coffee filter covers over the tops.
Once cooled and having expired nasty gasses for at least 24 hours it all goes in the barrel.

Then the only problem is leaving it alone.

I have tried quite a few other ways, for me this is the one that produces the best rum I've been able to make.

While I am sure I've left out many details, this is pretty much it in a nutshell.
It works, it is not the way everyone does it and that's fine with me.
Damn now I want a shot!
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http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Distillusioned
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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nerdybrewer wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:47 am I've been using Panela sourced from Central America
Hey, now, that's something I'd like to try!

So, you don't use molasses at all? From what I've read, panela is more flavorful than the turbinado sugar I've been using, but I've never tried it. OTOH, I'm gaining back some flavor by adding a bit of molasses.

I think I do need to try something different, and your sounds like a good one to have a go with. Thanks!
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by Distillusioned »

Wasn't sure if I should post a link or not (based on this: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 35&t=11431), so I'll skip it. I can link it if you want.

Found a small discussion over on adiforums.com. This one pretty much convinced me to try panela. :)
You have to remember that molasses is the crap left over after all the sugarcane is refined after they take out all the good stuff. Panela is 100% pure basically dehydrated cane juice no fillers no additives just pure cane juice. It is wonderful and sweet and as I'm dumping it into the fermenter I often take a bite out of one of the blocks chew on it.
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NZChris
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Testing the jars in isolation Kiwistiller's Novice style, is great for making neutral, but not so much for flavored products, I much prefer choosing a blend because jars that taste a bit strong on their own may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend.

If you are having trouble with rum disappearing before it's really ready, you have to quickly make some drinking likker that can be enjoyed young, white even. One of my favorites is narrow cut white dog UJSSM. My last series was so good than none of it went onto oak. I also make and drink a lot of gin. Big fermenters that can produce three stripping runs per wash can quickly produce enough likker to keep your hands off your aging stash for quite some time. My latest rum is 17 months old and I haven't drawn off a bottle since it went on oak.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:56 pm drinking likker that can be enjoyed young, white even.
My favorite for this is a piggyback I make from the mostly-spent grains from the all-grain whiskey I make. Kind of reminds me of the DWWG I used to make, but I get to start with grains that would otherwise be destined for the compost. I should just stick to making whiskey; I'm good at that.

Well, that and my all-feints runs. I'm tempted to start triple or quadruple distilling some batches to simulate that without having to wait to accumulate enough feints.

Now that I think about it, the last feints run I did with my rum was pretty good. Maybe I should strive for some lighter-flavored rums. Hmm. Something to ponder....
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I reprocess my rum feints using fast aging trickery, then run them and age them separately. Years later, they are good enough to be included when blending a rum for drinking. Nearly all the rum I drink, is blends of what I've made over the years, not single batch.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I think you will find most commercial rums are sweetened after distillation. I made a good white rum with mostly sugar and a little molasses. Higher proof for off the still drink ability. Barrel aged, more molasses. 50/50 or more. Run it rough off the still, then let it age before drinking.

Add vanilla beans and or caramelized sugar after distillation for better flavor. I would add some sugar to my white rum, 1/2 oz per 5 gal. Made caramelized sugar on the stove and then poured it into a silicone ice cube tray. Makes nice sugar cubes to drop into a batch for aging. It takes a few weeks to mellow together.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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bluefish_dist wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:14 pm I think you will find most commercial rums are sweetened after distillation. I made a good white rum with mostly sugar and a little molasses. Higher proof for off the still drink ability. Barrel aged, more molasses. 50/50 or more. Run it rough off the still, then let it age before drinking.

Add vanilla beans and or caramelized sugar after distillation for better flavor. I would add some sugar to my white rum, 1/2 oz per 5 gal. Made caramelized sugar on the stove and then poured it into a silicone ice cube tray. Makes nice sugar cubes to drop into a batch for aging. It takes a few weeks to mellow together.
Yeah, I saw a big list (on here, I believe) that described types/amounts of backsweetening of a crap-ton of commercial rums. I tinkered with that a glass at a time, but I never committed to trying it in any volume. I might have to try your vanilla bean suggestion. I do like a little vanilla flavor in whiskey, so it stands to reason I'd like it in rum, too.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Distillusioned wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:25 pm
bluefish_dist wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:14 pm I think you will find most commercial rums are sweetened after distillation. I made a good white rum with mostly sugar and a little molasses. Higher proof for off the still drink ability. Barrel aged, more molasses. 50/50 or more. Run it rough off the still, then let it age before drinking.

Add vanilla beans and or caramelized sugar after distillation for better flavor. I would add some sugar to my white rum, 1/2 oz per 5 gal. Made caramelized sugar on the stove and then poured it into a silicone ice cube tray. Makes nice sugar cubes to drop into a batch for aging. It takes a few weeks to mellow together.
Yeah, I saw a big list (on here, I believe) that described types/amounts of backsweetening of a crap-ton of commercial rums. I tinkered with that a glass at a time, but I never committed to trying it in any volume. I might have to try your vanilla bean suggestion. I do like a little vanilla flavor in whiskey, so it stands to reason I'd like it in rum, too.
Note that it takes time for the caramelized sugar to improve the flavor. When I first tried it on a white rum, on day 1 the no sugar rum was better. 2 weeks later the sugar added rum was better. So don’t just add and taste. Add, let sit, then taste.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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bluefish_dist wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:32 pm Note that it takes time for the caramelized sugar to improve the flavor. When I first tried it on a white rum, on day 1 the no sugar rum was better. 2 weeks later the sugar added rum was better. So don’t just add and taste. Add, let sit, then taste.
Makes sense. I make a liqueur or two, and they don't taste right until I let the mix and mingle a bit.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Caramel additions and back sweetening are just short cuts to make poorly made rum marketable at an earlier age IMO.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Distillusioned wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:36 pm
bluefish_dist wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:32 pm Note that it takes time for the caramelized sugar to improve the flavor. When I first tried it on a white rum, on day 1 the no sugar rum was better. 2 weeks later the sugar added rum was better. So don’t just add and taste. Add, let sit, then taste.
Makes sense. I make a liqueur or two, and they don't taste right until I let the mix and mingle a bit.
just like tempering spirits down from cask strength to drinking strength, you have to let it rest a few days to get real good. When I make peach pie, I macerate peaches, nutmeg, cinnamon, and vanilla been in 100P neutral for a month or few, then back sweeten after straining with a brown sugar simple syrup. then it has to rest a week or two. Then, you cant stay out of it. Everything in this hobby takes time. Everything.
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NZChris
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by NZChris »

If you are trying to blend up a particular style of rum, caramel can come in handy. I make a caramel syrup at around 700g/l and 20% ABV that keeps for years. It doesn't take much to wreck a rum, so I have to be very careful with it and don't make up more than 300ml without making a sample blend first.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Yeah, I mean are you going for Wray & Nephew style Jamaican or a a Cuban Palatino?

Either way, there is work to be done beyond the basics.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I pulled out a jug that hasn't been oaked yet. It's fresh from a couple/few weeks ago.

It's sitting at 66%. Do you think that might be indicative of not going far enough into the tails? That's certainly a few points higher than I'd be at for whiskey (i.e., I usually manage to hit my aging proof without watering down).

At 66%, it smells pretty neutral, so I proofed a bit down to ~35% for a taste. Honestly, it's not unpleasant at all, but, again, kind of neutral. I can smell some of that spicy/nutmeg/cinnamon that I've assumed came from the wood. I think I might proof down a half-bottle or so to sip on this weekend.

I know someone(s) in this thread mentioned I needed more molasses, so I'm going to give that a try. I've been using Golden Barrel brand unsulfured blackstrap molasses, if that's relevant.

I'm also going to give the Panela a try, but the shipping estimate is around 1-2 months, so I'll have to wait a bit for that.

Thanks, again, everyone for all your input.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by Hambone »

White rum isn’t going to be super rummy. I’ve never tried using the rum oils as sweet water, but I’m sure that would kick up the rum flavor. It’s collected after the nasty tails, I don’t think that it would cloud your liquor…
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Distillusioned wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:58 am It's sitting at 66%. Do you think that might be indicative of not going far enough into the tails?
My rum heart cuts often turn out to be around 66-68%.

The lack of flavor may indicate that jars at both ends, that contained concentrated rum flavors, ended up in your feints collection. You have to cut to suit your needs. You seem to want to drink yours now, so your narrow cut might not be very rummy, but at least you can drink it. My wide cuts taste very rummy, but they need to mellow on wood for at least a couple of years before I'd consider drawing of a bottle for the drinks cabinet.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:23 pm
Distillusioned wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:58 am It's sitting at 66%. Do you think that might be indicative of not going far enough into the tails?
My rum heart cuts often turn out to be around 66-68%.

The lack of flavor may indicate that jars at both ends, that contained concentrated rum flavors, ended up in your feints collection. You have to cut to suit your needs. You seem to want to drink yours now, so your narrow cut might not be very rummy, but at least you can drink it. My wide cuts taste very rummy, but they need to mellow on wood for at least a couple of years before I'd consider drawing of a bottle for the drinks cabinet.
I want to drink it now and later. :)

I don't really drink rum, so it's kind of like I'm trying to bake a cake without ever having eaten cake. Of the rums I've had, mine doesn't even vaguely resemble them. I like it, so no biggie. Are there any commercial rums that you think taste more like homemade? I adore my whiskeys, but they are most definitely different from some/most/all commercial offerings.

Also, apologies for trying to make everything in comparison to whiskey. That's something I know, so that's my frame of reference for spirits in general.

Edit: my main reasons for trying rum are 1) something new that I don't know anything about and 2) something to make when I don't feel like mashing.

Edit 2: I don't have a problem waiting for it, but I'd like to know the stuff that I put up will eventually taste like rum. I guess the better subject line would have been "what should rum taste like straight off the still."
Last edited by Distillusioned on Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by VOLRATH86 »

I just ran SBB recipe gen 5 essentially....... bomb off the tap and diluted...... thanks homie
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Distillusioned wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:34 pm I don't have a problem waiting for it, but I'd like to know the stuff that I put up will eventually taste like rum.
Give some the 'hurry up' to get a preview of what it might turn out like. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55301
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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NZChris wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:02 pm
Distillusioned wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:34 pm I don't have a problem waiting for it, but I'd like to know the stuff that I put up will eventually taste like rum.
Give some the 'hurry up' to get a preview of what it might turn out like. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55301
That really works (even as an approximation)? Really? I discounted that based on the subject line alone.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

Post by Saltbush Bill »

If your not getting enough flavour make a small experimental wash using my recipe.......run that and see if you get enough flavour.
I think you will find that you will.....and only need to keep hearts in the process.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:10 pm If your not getting enough flavour make a small experimental wash using my recipe.......run that and see if you get enough flavour.
I think you will find that you will.....and only need to keep hearts in the process.
For reference: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 14&t=71293

That's more-or-less what I was going to do. Probably would have skipped the vitamins and Epsom salts, though. My rums ferment pretty good/quick with only molasses, turbinado sugar, water, and yeast. Do you think I need the vitamins/salts for a molasses-only batch (obviously, you do, since that's your recipe :D, but I have no idea if it's the turbinado sugar that has the stuff that keep my yeast so happy)? I have both of those on hand, so I can go with/without just as easily. Mostly curious because I try to keep things as basic as necessary while still making a good product.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Stick to the recipe for best results.
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:27 pm Stick to the recipe for best results.
Fair enough. Might do a batch exactly as written and a batch with modifications. If I do, I'll post comparisons.

Somewhat off-topic...I spend a lot of time on allrecipes, and most of the reviews there go something like, "I used x instead of y; I prepared it a instead of b; recipe was horrible".
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Re: My rum never tastes like rum

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I don't recall ever using somebody else's recipe. There are recipes here that use far more nutrients than I ever use. The worst rum I ever made was when I used a commercial rum yeast I had seen recommended on the forum.
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