A new Bourbon or Whiskey, not sure.

[Bombo80]

So I have decided to try this recipe, and not sure what type of whiskey it will be.
12.5# corn (cracked from whole kernels, then turned into a fine corn meal)
12.5# Chicken Scratch (looks to be 1/3 cracked corn, 1/3whole wheat, 1/3 whole oats)
12.5 gallons water.

The chicken scratch was crushed to break up the grains.
I mashed the chicken scratch and corn separately.
First the Chicken Scratch …….
6 gallons water (half RO, half filtered house water) brought to about 190°.
Whisked the grains into the water. This was a fairly thick, gelatinous goo of grains and corn.
I stirred mixture every half hour with a large paint stirrer used for 5 gallon buckets of paint. Of course this was cleaned meticulously before use. Once the grains dropped to around 156°, I mixed in 2 tablespoons of Alpha Amylase powder.
This really thinned out the grain mixture. I stirred the grains every 30 minutes until it dropped below 140°.
At that point I added 2 tablespoons of Glucoamylase and stirred that in. This helped it thin out even more.

Now for the corn meal …….
Basically did the same thing as the chicken scratch, except I used an extra half gallon of water.
I knew it would get to be a thick porridge. Followed the same temps, and added the enzymes at the same time as the chicken scratch.
I allowed these to cool until they were under 100°, and pitched a half cup of red star bread yeast. Aerated well with a whisk and tossed in a small bag of oyster shells. YES, I am fermenting on the grains. I didn’t have the proper grain bags to filter it before fermentation.
I have the fermenter in a room with a small heater, to try and keep it around 70°.

The next day I had a good fermentation going, and the smell was wonderful. Unlike anything else I have mashed.
I will let this ferment out and then try to filter out as much of the grains and corn matter.

My SG was 13 brix, or 1.053, which should yield a 7% wash. I am not sure if my conversion was good, or not. It gets questionable on a mixture of grains, like the chicken scratch. There is not % on how much corn, wheat or oats are in the mix.

Not sure if high temp enzymes will help with a better conversion. I am planning on getting some anyway.

[fizzix]

To be bourbon, it has to be >=51% corn.
The 1/3 corn in your chicken scratch (if that's accurate) pushes you into that bourbon territory.

1.053 is respectable. You may be able to push that to 1.06 on a good day.

I'm confused on your high-temp enzyme statements, though.
You say you're going to get some, but state earlier that you added some alpha at 156°.
That should suffice, and adding something like Ferm Solutions liquid hi-temp would just be redundant.

I think your conversion is fine, and you should yield a nice bourbon. Keep us posted!

[Bombo80]

fizzix,

High temp amylase can be added as high as 190°.

Typical alpha amylase enzyme is added between 155° - 162°.

Glucoamylase is used between 130° - 140°.

This product is added to the hot slurry water before the first grain addition during mashing. In addition to breaking down starch this enzyme greatly reduces viscosity in thick mashes. Making it easier to mix the mash while at high temps, potentially getting a better conversion of the starches.

So, instead of fighting to keep the corn meal mixture in motion while at near boiling temps, it will start the conversion of the available starches in to sugars at this high temp. Then add the other amylases when the mash cools to their respective temperature range. Again, the whole purpose it to get the most sugar out of your grains before fermentation.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Yes, your conversion is respectable and will make a good bourbonish style whiskey.

I can think of a couple things that might help your conversions even more:

Take your water all the way up to boiling, I don't see the benefit in stopping at 190F. By the time you add grains it will be even cooler and less effective for breaking open corn starches.
The hotter the better with corn. If you go to the high temp enzymes, then you will need to stop at 190F because higher temps will denature those enzymes. (go for the high temp enzymes, you will love them)
Why are you doing the chicken scratch and corn separately?

Add your alpha at lower temps. Most here recommend between 145F an 150F. Higher than that and you are creating non-fermentables, good for beer styles, but not much use to distillers.

[kiwi Bruce]

Was your water drawn from a steam where six naked virgins just bathed?

No...wait a minute...that's for Irish whiskey.

[Boda Getta]

I think I would have added some malted barley and called it Four Grain Whiskey, but since we don't have to go by gov't rules you can call it anything you want to.

[Bombo80]

I mashed the chicken scratch and corn separately because I don't have a pot big enough for 25 pounds of grain and 13+ gallons of water.

So I split the chicken scratch in half (6.25 pounds) and mashed two 5 gallon pots with 3+ gallons in each. My water was over 195 on both since I wasn't in any hurry.

The corn I mashed all 12.5 pounds in my 10 gallon pot, with 6.5+ gallons of water. this also was over 195 when I actually started adding the corn, and actually kept the heat on as I whisked in the corn. Man does that stuff get thick !! Definitely getting some high temp enzymes.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

How big is your fermenter?

[Bombo80]

55 gallon

I know it's overkill for what I am doing, but I had it, and I got it for free.

I actually have 6 or 7 of them, can't remember. Most are in my storage unit.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

This is why I ask. If you can boil water, in several batches... give this method a try. No scorching. Really is the smart man, I mean lazy man's way to make all grain.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

[Bombo80]

Thanks Shineon,

I saw that thread, but didn't think about it hard enough. That is definitely worth a shot. I just need to get my corn and chicken scratch ready to go.

I also found a cheap source of corn meal. Restaurant Depot has 50 pound bags for about $17. No fuss, mo muss.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

That's exactly where I get my corn. 17 bucks, degerminated, clean corn, all for whiskey

Yeah, just one thing people mess up at first. Not a cute boil. A full rolling boil. You know what I mean, right? The room filling steam kind of boil. That will get youy there.

[MtRainier]

If you go to the high temp enzymes, then you will need to stop at 190F because higher temps will denature those enzymes.

Are there different types of high-temp alpha enzymes? I use the stuff from ferm-solutions.net, which, I think, is this stuff:

http://en.angelyeast.com/products/enzym ... a-400.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The usage sheet from the manufacturer says

The optimum temperature for this product is above 90℃, with most effective performance in the range of 95℃to 97℃. The enzyme maintains considerable activity at higher temperatures (100℃or above).

This is quite a bit higher than 190F, which is 87C.

[Bombo80]

I would venture to guess that is why SCD is saying to get your water to a FULL ROLLING BOIL first. When you mash in the grains, you will get a drop in temp. You could always save back a couple gallons for the very end, after you get all the grains mixed in. That might get your temp up over 195. I am going to give it a try when I get to the next whiskey wash.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Are there different types of high-temp alpha enzymes?

Good point, I was referring to the SebStar brand for the 190F temp.
Each brand may be different and the protocol will be important!

[Bombo80]

So I finally got around to filtering out the grains on this bourbon wash. I already had a fruit press, so I decided to use it instead of spending more money on a mop bucket.

A 5 gallon paint strainer bag fits in it perfectly. But first I ran it through a strainer bag I made out of polyester mosquito netting that I picked up at a fabric shop. Kind of strange being the only man walking around the place.

Anyway, I first filtered out the majority of the heavy stuff with the mosquito netting bag, then put half the remaining grains into the fruit press and squeezed it until it was a big puck of fairly dry grains. I did this a second time with the remaining grains, and poured all the liquid through another paint strainer bag and into the carboys.

As you can see I have a decent amount of leftover grains, but also have a bit over 10 gallons of wash almost ready for the still. Those are a 7 gallon and a 6 gallon carboys. I will let is settle until next weekend, then run it. It sure smells wonderful !!

[Skinnerback]

naked virgins? I'm doing it wrong.

[Bombo80]

So I ran this wash this past weekend. Have it aired out and ready to do the cuts tonight.

I was happy collecting 2 gallons from an 11 gallon boiler charge. I tossed the first full half pint of foreshots. Then collected 7 more half pints ranging from 155 proof down to 130 proof. I need to get more half pint jars.
I then switched over to pints, and collected 12 more jars. They started at 126 proof and dropped pretty steady after that. Going down to 50 proof, and the last quart jar at 20 proof. Some pretty nasty stuff in that one.
I have been re-reading about making cuts. There is so much info out there. But I am going back over it again, before I make my cuts. Much kudos to Kiwistiller and Yummyrum, for their cuts and blending instructions. I REALLY need to get more small jars.
Should be an interesting evening.

[Bombo80]

I'm going with Bourbon on this one.

After making my cuts on this, I ended up with just over 1 gallon at 45% ABV.

I blended it together and aged it a few different ways.

I put it into quart jars, and oaked it as follows .....

#1 - Medium Toast Oak Spiral. 1/3 of a spiral.
#2 - Medium Plus Toast Oak Spiral. 1/3 of a spiral.
#3 - Charred White Oak.
#4 - Charred White Oak.
#5 - white
The charred white oak is from some wood that I have had for many years. It was originally cut into boards and dried in stacks for a year plus, out in the elements of northern Minnesota. Since then it has been stored in a garage or shed. The piece of wood was 3/4" x 3/4" x 40 inches long. I charred about 18 inches of one end, then cut off a couple pieces at 5 3/4", to use in quart jars with around 28 ounces of bourbon. Giving me about 18.375 sq. inches.

It has been almost 8 weeks on the oak. The charred bourbon is FANTASTIC !!!! I have yet to try the others, but I am expecting they will be good too. I just need to figure out which way I like it better.

I Started a large mash of this same bourbon. 37.5# of cornmeal and 37.5# of the chicken scratch. That was the rest of the bag I initially bought.

So this was a bit bigger than my last all corn batch, but I was a bit short for 3 full stripping runs, but did 3 slightly smaller strips anyway. Hoping to get 3 good boiler charges for the stripping runs.

The cornmeal and grains were split into 4 pails.
I used 21 gallons of water and 8 gallons of backset, split 4 ways. sort of. First batch was 6 water and 2 backset. The remaining 3 batches will get 5 water and 2 backset. I figured the initial cornmeal would get quite thick before adding the high temp enzymes. Each batch of water/backset was brought to a full rolling boil and added to the 55 gallon fermenter. Mixed with a large paint stirrer while adding the first bucket of cornmeal. Continued mixing for a minute or so, just to make sure there were no dry spots. Covered the barrel and got the second batch of water/backset heating. Just before the next batch of water got to a boil, I added the high temp enzymes to the first part of the mash, and mixed thoroughly. It really loosened up quite a bit.
I continued this procedure for the third and forth grain installments. In the end there was about 40 gallons of mash.
I would mix it every hour, or so. Checking the temp at the same time. I had to wait many hours until the temp dropped to the point where I could add the Glucoamylase enzyme. By now, the mash the mash was very thin and getting thinner with time.
I had to wait until morning to pitch the yeast, and it was still 100°, and I pitched 1 full cup of bakers yeast, after aerating the mash first.
The SG was 1.064, which is 10 points higher than the initial batch I did. But there was less water in this one. I still think I get really good efficiency in the mash conversion.
I just have to wait for it to finish fermenting. then strain it, strip it and spirit run.

[metalsmith]

naked virgins? I'm doing it wrong.

The naked, or the virgin part? (Please tell me you are not naked......)

[Tummydoc]

I find 3 naked virgins gives a smoother drink. With 6 I get predominantly heads.

[still_stirrin]

I find 3 naked virgins gives a smoother drink. With 6 I get predominantly heads.

[Sunshineer]

If you want to make really good Irish whiskey you not only need the down stream bath water of at least six (more is better) red headed Irish virgins and most importantly don't forget you must take very good care of the leprechauns. The best way to do this is to ether pour them a shot and leave it with in easy reach or even better a small ceramic jug left where they can find it is best if not they will ruin every batch you try to make in very tricky ways. Like scorching your mash,stuck fermentations or even worse blowing up your still if you make them really mad so please remember the leprechauns. It's the safe way to go.

[Bombo80]

I stripped this bourbon last weekend. I had three stripping runs consisting of 8 gallons, 9 gallons ans 9 gallons. I collected 8 1/2 gallons of distillate. I had to split what I collected into two different carboys, so I am not completely sure what the ABV is, but I believe it is under 40%, so I shouldn't have to add any water to dilute it. Hoping to do the spirit run this weekend.

I also saved about 12 gallons of backset that I am going to use for my next all corn whiskey mash. I plan on mashing in while doing the spirit run. Then it will be time for a large rum wash.

All this should give me plenty of liquor down the road.