all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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VLAGAVULVIN
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all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:41 am

Hey folks. My head is pregnant with that idea for at least since October.

I have a lot of rye malt, white (unfermented), milled as fine as flour. And would like to get some fine rye whiskey (or bread wine if you don't mind). To be consumed as white dawg. Tasty but not poisonous. Fragrant but not overspiced.

I want to potstill it thrice. And to use a copper helmet for the 2nd and 3rd distillations. The total schedule - as below (criticism required):
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triple rye malt project.png
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The second thing... it will try go scorching. I have neither steam boiler nor thumper. So, I want to ferment it as wort, not mash. The idea is to drop all the rye malt at 68C (155F) to my poor Grainfather's guts and to filter it through the fair amount of rice husks / no further boiling. Souring prevention is my problem. Generally, is it worth making that "beer" to get rid of burnt stuff? The stripping run is planned on induction, not heating elements.

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by bilgriss » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:39 pm

I have never tried to mash flour, so treat anything I say as potentially useless.

However, I cannot imagine that you will be able to filter it through a grain bed and extract liquid without the flour going along for the ride. I'm picturing a bowl of thin pancake batter. Try to pour it through a filter of any sort, and I'd think it will either clog, or you'll get pancake batter coming out the other side.

Please keep us updated on this; I'm very curious to see what you come up with.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:51 pm

bilgriss wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:39 pm
Try to pour it through a filter of any sort, and I'd think it will either clog, or you'll get pancake batter coming out the other side.
Basing on my witbier experiments with that Grainfather, there's no "pillowcase" working fine :cry: scorching anyways!
Using Angel Koji for fermentation is the best way to avoid flour cake scorching (that I know of). But I don't really want to use angels this time.

bilgriss wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:39 pm
Please keep us updated on this; I'm very curious to see what you come up with.
OK. But very likely, I'll try it first on 100% barley malt wort. Just to compare if it's worth to make the 3rd run according to my diagram estimations. At least, I'll get rid of the bottom scrubbling :econfused:

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by erykroom » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:36 pm

I doubt that you will be able to lauter and sparge rye that has been milled to flour. At least not without the beta enzymes and proper mashing schedule. One possibility is to ferment on the grain and just wait until all the floating particles drop out of solution. Then you can just decant the clear worth and run it as usual. It may take some time. A month or two in my experience with rye.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:59 pm

erykroom wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:36 pm
A month or two in my experience with rye.
I have -20oC (-4oF) just behind the door so far. Guess it gets clear in no time in the circumstances :)

By the way, what of the beta amylase stuff you guys could advise here?

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by erykroom » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:10 am

Seems that we have similar temperatures outside :)
One trick that the old-timers in my region used to do is add a bucket of boiled potatoes to the mash. They thought that with potatoes they get more alcohol but I guess it's purely for a smoother mouthfeel.

I have tried both ways with potatoes and without. I prefer the one with potatoes and my wife the one without. So I guess it's a personal preference

Concerning the enzymes I only have alpha so I can't comment on that.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:51 pm

Got -30 in the morning and will have -18 in the noon (centigrade). The car is so far so good (knock-knock-knock) but no more tights while running (otherwise the balls tryna sing all those jinglebells melodies just on the move).
erykroom wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:10 am
I have tried both ways with potatoes and without. I prefer the one with potatoes and my wife the one without.
:wtf: anyhow fermented or not, mashed or wut, beg- or end-fermentation added and so forth :?:

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by erykroom » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:19 am

The potatoes go into the mash.
One other possibility instead of boiling the potatoes is to put the bucket of potatoes outside and let them freeze before adding them to the mash. I'm not sure what exactly happens to the starches inside a potato during freezing but afterwards they taste sweet.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by HDNB » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:55 am

i do all malt rye. about one in five maybe would filter. never have figured the trick. usually they are slimeballs.

i'd bet coming up with a steam solution or double boiler will be made easier than a slime free mash.

my best results come with heating malt and water from cold to 160* adding hi temp alpha, cooling over the course of 3 hours, to 149*, adding gluco amalaze and cooling over 4 hours (add cold water at the end) to 95* and pitching with constant agitation from beginning to end. i mix in the yeast for at least 3 hours too...seems to make a positive difference. about a 12 hour project.

it would prolly convert itself, i use the liquid enzymes since they are cheap and give me everything i can get.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:50 am

erykroom wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:19 am
I'm not sure what exactly happens to the starches inside a potato during freezing
The enzymation, though. An old Russian (or Swedish? or Canadian??) trick. Thank you, Sir. But it sounds more and more like Schnaps, not Whiskey :wink:

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:58 am

HDNB wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:55 am
i'd bet coming up with a steam solution or double boiler will be made easier than a slime free mash.
Sure :tired:

HDNB wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:55 am
my best results come with heating malt and water from cold to 160* adding hi temp alpha, cooling over the course of 3 hours, to 149*, adding gluco amalaze and cooling over 4 hours (add cold water at the end) to 95* and pitching with constant agitation from beginning to end. i mix in the yeast for at least 3 hours too...seems to make a positive difference. about a 12 hour project.
I'll think of all those amylazes once again, thank you...

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by erykroom » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:59 pm

Thank you, Sir. But it sounds more and more like Schnaps, not Whiskey :wink:
A bucket of potatoes for every 50kg of rye. So it's a small percentage of an overall mash bill.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 pm

erykroom wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:59 pm
A bucket of potatoes for every 50kg of rye. So it's a small percentage of an overall mash bill.
More or less like 20% of potatoes : 80% of malted rye, eh?
The everywhere Pareto Principle :?:

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by Dathhu » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:14 pm

I've made a couple Belgian wit biers with some flour, just for some curiosity and partially being cheap...

The flour does get mostly eaten up by the enzymes, but there is still a lot of particulate left. Works well for the beer with a one hour boil or so, but in a still it's a whole lot longer. The beer comes out to style, slightly cloudy. Tastes pretty good, adding bit of orange, coriander at the end with the right yeast it is beautiful.

A slightly cloudy wash in a still on the other hand, might start out okay, but depending on how you're running it you could be in for some scorching. Unless you're lautering the grain to clear before fermentation I'd probably advise against it. Flour in a mash doesn't settle out that well IMHO.

Rye is a different beast altogether, even more gluey than wheat.

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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:17 am

Dathhu wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:14 pm
Rye is a different beast altogether, even more gluey than wheat.
Yepp... bubbling, souring, scorching, this kind of stuff. So, you advise to ferment mash and not wash or I'm out in the left field with it, eh?

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome

Post by Dathhu » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:08 am

Sorry, wasn't quite clear in what I was saying.

I'd probably try and get as clear as possible before fermentation if you're going to try with the flour. Not an easy job though. The rice hulls might work but my guess is they'll get gummed up pretty quickly with the Rye.

Don't know how well cold crashing will do either tbh, it'll knock down yeast pretty quickly but I'm not sure about the rest of the particulate from the flour. Had some wit biers kegged up that stayed cloudy until the last glass.

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