Implications of multi-distillations

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
frenzy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 am

Implications of multi-distillations

Post by frenzy »

Greetings. What are your thoughts (eg pros/cons) of various approaches:
1. Several stripping runs to a single spirit run
2. One stripping run combined with a new wash
3. Others?

I’ve done the first but wonder if I’m loosing flavor. I’m planning on doing 2 soon but wonder if it will not be as pure/smooth. Do y’all prefer one over the other, or other options?
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Saltbush Bill »

No mention of what type of still......or what product your trying to make...........hard to answer questions like that without all relevant information.
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7653
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Yummyrum »

You will get a lot of answers . A lot will depend on the still used , Pot still , thumper , plated still etc . The wash or mash being used , whether it was distilled on or off the grain .
Adding back feints from last distillation is another way of doing things , some do , some don’t .
Also remember that a lot of the flavour comes from the ageing process. Bundy Rum for example , quote 80% of their flavour comes from ageing in bug Oak Vats .

Personally ,for Rum , I use a three plate still . I strip half the wash and add it too the other half and add feints .
When I did Scotch, it was in a Pot still . Stripped and then spirit run with feints .

Edit: posted with Salty …. Agree
frenzy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 am

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by frenzy »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:16 pm No mention of what type of still......or what product your trying to make...........hard to answer questions like that without all relevant information.
Whiskey, column still
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Saltbush Bill »

frenzy wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:36 pm Whiskey, column still
What is that ? a packed column ? plated column ? pot still with long riser?
People make whisky with all manner of things.
A photo would help us help you.
If its a plated column "flute/bubbler" and your trying to make whisky then one and done is enough, just straight wash.
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Stonecutter »

Frenzy,
the big commercial guys do all sorts of different blending some use plated column strip runs and pot spirit runs with cuts and different ways of running the mash varying between the individual outfits. IMO if you can get a plated column and pot still you should be able to have enough experimenting to last a life time. Hopefully you can add some insight for the rest of us soon.


Here’s an article that explains with a little more detail.
http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2012/ ... tland.html
64B65BD9-ED08-48E9-B3AD-5B79C8B020BF.png
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
frenzy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 am

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by frenzy »

Thanks for the response. I thought perhaps there was some generalizable knowledge, regardless of setup. I'm a novice, I realize now that assumption was faulty.
pot still turn.jpg
ps - no idea why the photo was turned after attaching...
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Stonecutter »

frenzy wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:18 pm Thanks for the response. I thought perhaps there was some generalizable knowledge, regardless of setup. I'm a novice, I realize now assumption was faulty.

ps - no idea why the photo was turned after attaching...
I’m right there with ya
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

That's not a column, it's a riser, raises the top end of the condenser to a convenient height for the collection jar.

1 and 2 can both make good whiskey. You can also strip more than once and add some fresh wash for the spirit run.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Frenzy I turned the photo for you.
Your still is just what we call a pot still here, column stills have packing or plates in the column.
Good to see that your product outlet is a decent distance from the gas burner :thumbup: good move safety wise.
Most people with pots strip the wash first then run the resulting low wines for the spirit run......need to do 3 or 4 strips to get enough low wines for the spirit run.
Another option is to run a mix of low wines and wash.
The there are a few folk who choose to run straight wash......up to you in the end , but I would say the highest percentage of folk run 100% low wines.
User avatar
Salt Must Flow
Distiller
Posts: 1920
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:06 pm
Location: Wuhan China (Novel Coronavirus Laboratory)

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Salt Must Flow »

The 3rd option would be to get a BIGGER boiler for a larger stripping run 8) One stripping run and a single spirit run.
User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3630
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Lately I've been doing this for spirit runs:

- Two full strips to 5-6 gallons low wines each.
- Three gallons feints cut from last run. Throw out early heads, keep late heads and tails as feints.
- Top up with squeezed grain beer - 1-2 gallons.

This allows me to do a large batch HDPE barrel mash and minimize squeezing. I'll also do a second ferment sugarhead or rumski off those spent grains so the liquid left behind contributes ETOH and flavor to the second ferment->strip - squeeze maybe only half...

I've done a bunch of batches where I strip three batches and no loss of flavor for the spirit run..

Cheers!
-j
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
frenzy
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 am

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by frenzy »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:22 pm Frenzy I turned the photo for you.
Your still is just what we call a pot still here, column stills have packing or plates in the column.
Good to see that your product outlet is a decent distance from the gas burner :thumbup: good move safety wise.
Most people with pots strip the wash first then run the resulting low wines for the spirit run......need to do 3 or 4 strips to get enough low wines for the spirit run.
Another option is to run a mix of low wines and wash.
The there are a few folk who choose to run straight wash......up to you in the end , but I would say the highest percentage of folk run 100% low wines.
That’s helpful, thank you
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by shadylane »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:14 pm The 3rd option would be to get a BIGGER boiler for a larger stripping run 8) One stripping run and a single spirit run.
That's what I was thinking. :lol:
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

shadylane wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:32 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:14 pm The 3rd option would be to get a BIGGER boiler for a larger stripping run 8) One stripping run and a single spirit run.
That's what I was thinking. :lol:
A preheater is cheaper to build and to run and does the job quicker.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by shadylane »

NZChris wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:45 pm
shadylane wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:32 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:14 pm The 3rd option would be to get a BIGGER boiler for a larger stripping run 8) One stripping run and a single spirit run.
That's what I was thinking. :lol:
A preheater is cheaper to build and to run and does the job quicker.
That would mean having to do multiple stripping runs in a row.
I'm too lazy for that.
User avatar
Salt Must Flow
Distiller
Posts: 1920
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:06 pm
Location: Wuhan China (Novel Coronavirus Laboratory)

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Salt Must Flow »

NZChris wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:45 pm
shadylane wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:32 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:14 pm The 3rd option would be to get a BIGGER boiler for a larger stripping run 8) One stripping run and a single spirit run.
That's what I was thinking. :lol:
A preheater is cheaper to build and to run and does the job quicker.
I briefly looked into preheaters. I have seen them here before, but that is something I would have to study. Some designs appear to be more along the lines of a continuous stripper. From what I've seen it appears some designs pump the wash through the condenser instead of water. That is apparently where the efficiency comes into play. I've seen different designs.

Fortunately I lucked out. I have a relative in the chemical industry and he gave me a free stainless container that used to contain Nitric acid. I use that as a boiler for stripping runs. I can use two 5500W elements for quicker heat-up, but I currently use one element to strip. It may not be as efficient, but it sure is convenient and more simplistic.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

I was meaning a Charentaise style preheater, an old design, not a continuous stripper, or brainstorming ideas that haven't made if off the drawing board yet.

I'm lazy too, so mine is plumbed so that dumping and recharging is quick and easy. Sometimes the next charge is pouring ten minutes after I turn the heat off. The foreshot is often already taken from the preheater. If the wash went in warm, nearing the end of the strip there can be more alcohol coming from the preheater than from the main pot. It's lot of energy savings over the same amount of wash stripped in a larger pot.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by shadylane »

Charentaise style preheater

Don't forget to vent the preheater.
And don't put a valve between the swans neck and preheater, like the picture shows. :shock:
It's not needed and dangerous.
59637d556b6ae753b74bdf847ecb64.jpg
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Saltbush Bill »

If I where a newb I'm damned if if i would be going to all that trouble, Id stick with what I had and use it for stripping until I had a bit more experience and knew what I really wanted.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

I built mine when I was a newbie. Doing three or four stripping runs in a day is a doddle with my preheater and not possible without it.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by Saltbush Bill »

My guess from looking at the size of the boiler involved and the gas stove under it, is that 3-4 strips in a day ...or less probably for that matter ,would be a walk in the park without a preheater......just so long as the liebig and water supply can deal with it.
If the liebig doesnt cope its a simple matter to stick an outer around that long product pipe to create a second much longer liebig......runnin the two plumbed together in unison will knock down plenty.
pot still turn.jpg
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by shadylane »

There's another option for preheating.
Use the hot wastewater coming out of the condenser to preheat the next still charge.
All you need is some hose and coil of tubing like a wort chiller. :wink:
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

I don't see any point in re-inventing a simple setup that the French were using successfully before we were born, especially if you haven't tried it. A Liebig has no trouble knocking down the vapor at the start of the strip as the preheater is doing most of the condensing. If your Liebig is undersized, you will already have trouble without a preheater.

Using hot water from the condenser is overthinking, maybe underthinking??, a simple idea. A lot of the waste heat from the distillation gets mopped up by a Charentaise style preheater. At the end of a strip, there might be enough hot water from the condenser to wash your glassware.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by shadylane »

NZChris wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:38 pm I don't see any point in re-inventing a simple setup that the French were using successfully before we were born,
Looks like a lot of extra work and equipment just to save a little bit of energy.
I'd have to lift buckets of wash higher to pour it into the preheater.
Electricity costs me $0.14 a KWH, that's much cheaper than extra work and sweat.
If I'm going to have a boiler size container with wash in it, I'd rather have a thumper.

Or better yet, build a steam stripper like this one.
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=59138
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

I'm getting too old to pour buckets of wash into the preheater, so I have a cheap 12v pump to do it for me.

A preheater vessel can be plumbed to double as a thumper.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

The most notable saving from my preheater is time. For however many strips I want to do, there is only one wait to get wash up to distilling temperature. The following strips are already up to temperature, sometimes already have the foreshot removed, sometimes already partly stripped, all done without without building a bigger boiler and tripling the size of the element or gas burner and energy bill to have the same heat up wait before you get the first drip off the spout.
User avatar
SaltyStaves
Distiller
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by SaltyStaves »

Agreed with NZChris. The time saving is definitely measurable. Especially with charges that are prone to foaming/puking and need extra care going from room to distillation temperature. The subsequent preheated charges are often passed their most volatile stage by the time they are dumped into the boiler. I can apply more energy (and sooner). Whether I'm doing two strips or five, it compresses the day.
User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3630
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I've got an SS 13g milkcan that would be great as a pre-heater and a 12V hot wort pump. Just need to solder and plumb some fittings and the downward facing condenser through the 13g and rig it up... For my strip runs heatup and fores are approximately 2hrs - This setup would save about 4hrs in a three stripper day but probably still make for an 8 or 9 hour long day...

Cheers!
-j
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Implications of multi-distillations

Post by NZChris »

Another advantage of a preheater is being able to put the next generation together using the backset or dunder from the first strip. Today, my next generation is already in the can at ideal ferment temperature and the third strip isn't finished running yet.

With one large boiler, I wouldn't be able to start putting the next generation down until the stripping was finished.
Post Reply