Proofing down scotch to get more peat

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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PoppaW
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Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by PoppaW » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm

So I was thinking again. Seems I have more thinking time than doing time. Anyway my thought.

Can I take Reverse Osmosis water and soak some peated barley in it to extract some smoke and peat flavour? Then blend down my single malt with that? Or could I toss some peated malt into the scotch as it’s aging? I have seen a reference to putting the peated malt into the stripping runs to pull the peat and smoke out. Not sure if it imparts flavours that need the spirit run to fix. I might take a few ounces and toss a few grains in it to see what happens.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by SaltyStaves » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm

You'll likely get astringent husk flavours and tannins with it.

A spirit run with feints from a previous peated run is the way the Scots do it and that is many processes removed from what you are considering.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by zapata » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:33 pm

While untraditional, steeping low wines with peated barley before the spirit run may be interesting. It is unlikely to be disastrous. I think steeping finished spirit with barley is potentially disastrous.

If you want more peat, buy some. Scottish peat is available for delivery worldwide, though Irish peat is easier to find. Moisten your malt and smoke it to Octomore x 2 levels ("Sedicimore"?). Dry it out and let it rest in open bags for a week or two before using, you need to air out some of the volatiles you will catch.

Or just through smoldering chunks straight into the wash? Peat is cheap....but shipping is not.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by Saltbush Bill » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:17 pm

A google search of the forum for peatreek might also be usefull to you.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:50 pm

zapata wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:33 pm
"Sedicimore"
Hehe :thumbup:

zapata wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:33 pm
While untraditional, steeping low wines with peated barley before the spirit run may be interesting.
It may. But basing on my experience, it sits mostly in late (weak) tails. I.e. in a company with lots of unpleasant things. How to dig it out?

SaltyStaves wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm
A spirit run with feints from a previous peated run is the way the Scots do it and that is many processes removed from what you are considering.
Yeah, and in this way the feints get boiled and re-boiled in the presence of copper, time and again.

PoppaW wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm
So I was thinking again.
Congrats ;)

But below are 2 bad ideas, sorry:
PoppaW wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm
Can I take Reverse Osmosis water and soak some peated barley in it to extract some smoke and peat flavour? Then blend down my single malt with that?

Or could I toss some peated malt into the scotch as it’s aging?
Nuthin personal, just... you're not the first one to think in that way :roll: do not step on the rake of predecessors :oops:

PoppaW wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm
I have seen a reference to putting the peated malt into the stripping runs to pull the peat and smoke out. Not sure if it imparts flavours that need the spirit run to fix.
If you drop it into your stripping run then it gets boiled twice (not once) for your finished spirit. If you infuse it before your spirit run you get a bit different animal, rather interesting, too. That's all the better to combine.

But. During your spirit run,,, try to get more of it. Dive into some deep tails with a separate jar. As deep as 30-35% AbV, seriously. Then proof them UP (with some of your product spirit) to 50-55% AbV. And put some wood inside... say, x2 to your normal qty. This stuff will transform rather fast but you can "nuke" it in your MWO to mature it even faster. Make 2-3-5 aerations. After 2 or 3 weeks, try to add it into your main product. Not all at once. Just take some small jars and make some experiments. Imo, 1:20 is OK. But that was just my opinion.

P.S. Don't overdose with peated thangs soup ;)
P.P.S. The "peated" "Scotch" = The Patience. It turns out rather strange just after your spirit run. My own ones transformed in 36 months very significantly. And they keep on transforming to their best so far.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by 8Ball » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:01 am

VLAGAVULVIN wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:50 pm

P.P.S. The "peated" "Scotch" = The Patience. It turns out rather strange just after your spirit run. My own ones transformed in 36 months very significantly. And they keep on transforming to their best so far.
+1

I’ve started making a heavy peated all-malt recently. I agree that it is”rather strange just after your spirit run.” Made me think that I had screwed up, actually. Now, only a couple months into the aging process, it is starting to come along very nicely. Especially the peat. My all malt is destined to go into a Gibbs cask as the fourth use for five years. Then I’ll just replace what I take out from time to time with new make.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:50 am

8Ball wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:01 am
My all malt is destined to go into a Gibbs cask as the fourth use for five years. Then I’ll just replace what I take out from time to time with new make.

🎱
Replacing with newmake? Hehe, solera system ;) Lucky you to have "exhausted" casks. What I have is exhausted staves for my """Glenfiddich""" parody.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:04 am

PoppaW wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm
So I was thinking again. Seems I have more thinking time than doing time. Anyway my thought.

Can I take Reverse Osmosis water and soak some peated barley in it to extract some smoke and peat flavour? Then blend down my single malt with that?
I do like the way you think...+1 very interesting idea, however
SaltyStaves wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm
You'll likely get astringent husk flavours and tannins with it.
I think saltystaves is right...

however, have you considered peat smoking pea-gravel and smoke flavoring your cut-water with those...not an original idea, the Germans brew a beer that's flavored with smoked rocks...
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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 am

Washing off the soot directly into the drink means saturating it with carcinogens.

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:16 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:04 am
...however...the Germans brew a beer that's flavored with smoked rocks...
Well, a little misleading Bruce. The Germans used the “hot rocks”, which were fired in a wood fire to heat their brew kettles, which were actually wooden vessels in the early days. Here’s a good “side read”, although it is a diversion from this thread’s topic.
Steinbier, “stone beer,” an ale brewed with the use of hot stones, originally without the use of any brewing equipment made from metal. Steinbier breweries were typical for southern Austria and for some parts of Bavaria up to the beginning of the 20th century. The brewing method was supposedly developed by farmers who did not own proper brewing vessels. Heating of the mash and boiling of the wort were induced not by heating a brew kettle but rather by dropping very hot stones into wooden vessels containing the mash or the wort. Most stones are unsuitable for that procedure because sudden temperature changes result in cracking of most types of rock. A certain variety of rock, however, seems to resist extreme temperature changes; it is called “gray wacke.” This kind of stone is very common in Carinthia, the southernmost state of Austria, and it was here that steinbier was developed.

Steinbier was produced in wooden brewing vessels. Stones heated over fire were dropped into the mash tun to heat the mash; later, after the run-off, the same or a similar vessel would be used to boil the wort. The effect of adding hot rock to the mash, and even more effectively to the wort, would result in spontaneous boiling of the liquid that came in contact with the surface of the stone. Sugars from the wort would also instantly caramelize, whereas the stone itself released some of the smokiness of the fire in which it had been heated. Not surprisingly, this procedure was highly dangerous and could easily end up with the brewer burned by wort or the brewery consumed by fire.

This rather primitive production method seems to date back millennia and was widespread throughout the world, but gray wacke is particular to this part of Europe. Superheated stones have been used in farmhouse brewing for centuries, but rarely in professional brewing in towns or villages. Professional brewers refused to accept the brewers of steinbier in their guilds because the use of metal vessels was considered crucial for the craft. When state-of-the-art brewing equipment became more widely available in the second half of the 19th century, most steinbier breweries could not survive the stiff competition. Holzleger was the last steinbier brewery in Austria (and presumably in the world); it was opened in the small village of Waidmannsdorf near Klagenfurt in 1645 and was in operation until 1917, probably because of a lack of brewing material in World War I. The production was 690 hl that year.

Long after steinbier had disappeared from the map, the production technique was rediscovered by the Sailer Bräu Franz Sailer in Marktoberdorf, Bavaria. Here gray wacke rocks were put into large metal cages, heated over beechwood, and hauled into a (conventional) brew kettle. The rocks, coated with caramelized sugars, were then later added to the fermenting beer, giving it a unique blend smoke and caramel flavors. The production was given up when Allgäuer Brauhaus (a subsidiary of Radeberger) took over the brewery in Marktoberdorf in 2003. Some other breweries have taken up the production of steinbier, including Leikeim in the Franconian town of Altenkunstadt. Their steinbier is a lager with faint hints of caramel and smoke.
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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:37 am

your probably right I'm getting steinbier and rauchbier confused...Oh well "Never mind!"
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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:40 am

VLAGAVULVIN wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 am
Washing off the soot directly into the drink means saturating it with carcinogens.
more so than my cigars ? :lolno:
No...I don't put my cigars into my brew ! :crazy:
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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by 8Ball » Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:22 am

VLAGAVULVIN wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:50 am
8Ball wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:01 am
My all malt is destined to go into a Gibbs cask as the fourth use for five years. Then I’ll just replace what I take out from time to time with new make.

🎱
Replacing with newmake? Hehe, solera system ;) Lucky you to have "exhausted" casks. What I have is exhausted staves for my """Glenfiddich""" parody.
I only have one cask. But I have an unlimited stash of white oak heartwood. Just have to build up my ‘used’ wood for all malts.

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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:15 pm

8Ball wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:22 am
I only have one cask. But I have an unlimited stash of white oak heartwood. Just have to build up my ‘used’ wood for all malts.

🎱
New oak sticks — for extraction, used cask — for maturation/aeration. Not bad for Scotch style, too.

kiwi Bruce wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:40 am
VLAGAVULVIN wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 am
Washing off the soot directly into the drink means saturating it with carcinogens.
more so than my cigars ? :lolno:
No...I don't put my cigars into my brew ! :crazy:
Hehe :thumbup: all the better for your stomach...

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


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Re: Proofing down scotch to get more peat

Post by VLAGAVULVIN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:29 am

:!: Let me add something here...
VLAGAVULVIN wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:50 pm
But. During your spirit run,,, try to get more of it. Dive into some deep tails with a separate jar. As deep as 30-35% AbV, seriously. Then proof them UP (with some of your product spirit) to 50-55% AbV. And put some wood inside... say, x2 to your normal qty. This stuff will transform rather fast but you can "nuke" it in your MWO to mature it even faster. Make 2-3-5 aerations. After 2 or 3 weeks, try to add it into your main product. Not all at once. Just take some small jars and make some experiments. Imo, 1:20 is OK. But that was just my opinion.
It has to do with the second run on a pot still. Not CM/VM/etc. reflux still. :!:

Never make banana brandy. And never ferment potatoes: better make banana brandy... Oct.20, 2019


Watching your run is making me lazy (c) James LaBrie

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