all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
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- VLAGAVULVIN
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all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Hey folks. My head is pregnant with that idea for at least since October.
I have a lot of rye malt, white (unfermented), milled as fine as flour. And would like to get some fine rye whiskey (or bread wine if you don't mind). To be consumed as white dawg. Tasty but not poisonous. Fragrant but not overspiced.
I want to potstill it thrice. And to use a copper helmet for the 2nd and 3rd distillations. The total schedule - as below (criticism required):
. .
The second thing... it will try go scorching. I have neither steam boiler nor thumper. So, I want to ferment it as wort, not mash. The idea is to drop all the rye malt at 68C (155F) to my poor Grainfather's guts and to filter it through the fair amount of rice husks / no further boiling. Souring prevention is my problem. Generally, is it worth making that "beer" to get rid of burnt stuff? The stripping run is planned on induction, not heating elements.
I have a lot of rye malt, white (unfermented), milled as fine as flour. And would like to get some fine rye whiskey (or bread wine if you don't mind). To be consumed as white dawg. Tasty but not poisonous. Fragrant but not overspiced.
I want to potstill it thrice. And to use a copper helmet for the 2nd and 3rd distillations. The total schedule - as below (criticism required):
. .
The second thing... it will try go scorching. I have neither steam boiler nor thumper. So, I want to ferment it as wort, not mash. The idea is to drop all the rye malt at 68C (155F) to my poor Grainfather's guts and to filter it through the fair amount of rice husks / no further boiling. Souring prevention is my problem. Generally, is it worth making that "beer" to get rid of burnt stuff? The stripping run is planned on induction, not heating elements.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
I have never tried to mash flour, so treat anything I say as potentially useless.
However, I cannot imagine that you will be able to filter it through a grain bed and extract liquid without the flour going along for the ride. I'm picturing a bowl of thin pancake batter. Try to pour it through a filter of any sort, and I'd think it will either clog, or you'll get pancake batter coming out the other side.
Please keep us updated on this; I'm very curious to see what you come up with.
However, I cannot imagine that you will be able to filter it through a grain bed and extract liquid without the flour going along for the ride. I'm picturing a bowl of thin pancake batter. Try to pour it through a filter of any sort, and I'd think it will either clog, or you'll get pancake batter coming out the other side.
Please keep us updated on this; I'm very curious to see what you come up with.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Basing on my witbier experiments with that Grainfather, there's no "pillowcase" working fine scorching anyways!
Using Angel Koji for fermentation is the best way to avoid flour cake scorching (that I know of). But I don't really want to use angels this time.
OK. But very likely, I'll try it first on 100% barley malt wort. Just to compare if it's worth to make the 3rd run according to my diagram estimations. At least, I'll get rid of the bottom scrubbling
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
I doubt that you will be able to lauter and sparge rye that has been milled to flour. At least not without the beta enzymes and proper mashing schedule. One possibility is to ferment on the grain and just wait until all the floating particles drop out of solution. Then you can just decant the clear worth and run it as usual. It may take some time. A month or two in my experience with rye.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
I have -20oC (-4oF) just behind the door so far. Guess it gets clear in no time in the circumstances
By the way, what of the beta amylase stuff you guys could advise here?
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Seems that we have similar temperatures outside
One trick that the old-timers in my region used to do is add a bucket of boiled potatoes to the mash. They thought that with potatoes they get more alcohol but I guess it's purely for a smoother mouthfeel.
I have tried both ways with potatoes and without. I prefer the one with potatoes and my wife the one without. So I guess it's a personal preference
Concerning the enzymes I only have alpha so I can't comment on that.
One trick that the old-timers in my region used to do is add a bucket of boiled potatoes to the mash. They thought that with potatoes they get more alcohol but I guess it's purely for a smoother mouthfeel.
I have tried both ways with potatoes and without. I prefer the one with potatoes and my wife the one without. So I guess it's a personal preference
Concerning the enzymes I only have alpha so I can't comment on that.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Got -30 in the morning and will have -18 in the noon (centigrade). The car is so far so good (knock-knock-knock) but no more tights while running (otherwise the balls tryna sing all those jinglebells melodies just on the move).
anyhow fermented or not, mashed or wut, beg- or end-fermentation added and so forth
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
The potatoes go into the mash.
One other possibility instead of boiling the potatoes is to put the bucket of potatoes outside and let them freeze before adding them to the mash. I'm not sure what exactly happens to the starches inside a potato during freezing but afterwards they taste sweet.
One other possibility instead of boiling the potatoes is to put the bucket of potatoes outside and let them freeze before adding them to the mash. I'm not sure what exactly happens to the starches inside a potato during freezing but afterwards they taste sweet.
Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
i do all malt rye. about one in five maybe would filter. never have figured the trick. usually they are slimeballs.
i'd bet coming up with a steam solution or double boiler will be made easier than a slime free mash.
my best results come with heating malt and water from cold to 160* adding hi temp alpha, cooling over the course of 3 hours, to 149*, adding gluco amalaze and cooling over 4 hours (add cold water at the end) to 95* and pitching with constant agitation from beginning to end. i mix in the yeast for at least 3 hours too...seems to make a positive difference. about a 12 hour project.
it would prolly convert itself, i use the liquid enzymes since they are cheap and give me everything i can get.
i'd bet coming up with a steam solution or double boiler will be made easier than a slime free mash.
my best results come with heating malt and water from cold to 160* adding hi temp alpha, cooling over the course of 3 hours, to 149*, adding gluco amalaze and cooling over 4 hours (add cold water at the end) to 95* and pitching with constant agitation from beginning to end. i mix in the yeast for at least 3 hours too...seems to make a positive difference. about a 12 hour project.
it would prolly convert itself, i use the liquid enzymes since they are cheap and give me everything i can get.
I finally quit drinking for good.
now i drink for evil.
now i drink for evil.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
The enzymation, though. An old Russian (or Swedish? or Canadian??) trick. Thank you, Sir. But it sounds more and more like Schnaps, not Whiskey
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Sure
I'll think of all those amylazes once again, thank you...HDNB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:55 am my best results come with heating malt and water from cold to 160* adding hi temp alpha, cooling over the course of 3 hours, to 149*, adding gluco amalaze and cooling over 4 hours (add cold water at the end) to 95* and pitching with constant agitation from beginning to end. i mix in the yeast for at least 3 hours too...seems to make a positive difference. about a 12 hour project.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
A bucket of potatoes for every 50kg of rye. So it's a small percentage of an overall mash bill.Thank you, Sir. But it sounds more and more like Schnaps, not Whiskey
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
More or less like 20% of potatoes : 80% of malted rye, eh?
The everywhere Pareto Principle
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
I've made a couple Belgian wit biers with some flour, just for some curiosity and partially being cheap...
The flour does get mostly eaten up by the enzymes, but there is still a lot of particulate left. Works well for the beer with a one hour boil or so, but in a still it's a whole lot longer. The beer comes out to style, slightly cloudy. Tastes pretty good, adding bit of orange, coriander at the end with the right yeast it is beautiful.
A slightly cloudy wash in a still on the other hand, might start out okay, but depending on how you're running it you could be in for some scorching. Unless you're lautering the grain to clear before fermentation I'd probably advise against it. Flour in a mash doesn't settle out that well IMHO.
Rye is a different beast altogether, even more gluey than wheat.
The flour does get mostly eaten up by the enzymes, but there is still a lot of particulate left. Works well for the beer with a one hour boil or so, but in a still it's a whole lot longer. The beer comes out to style, slightly cloudy. Tastes pretty good, adding bit of orange, coriander at the end with the right yeast it is beautiful.
A slightly cloudy wash in a still on the other hand, might start out okay, but depending on how you're running it you could be in for some scorching. Unless you're lautering the grain to clear before fermentation I'd probably advise against it. Flour in a mash doesn't settle out that well IMHO.
Rye is a different beast altogether, even more gluey than wheat.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Yepp... bubbling, souring, scorching, this kind of stuff. So, you advise to ferment mash and not wash or I'm out in the left field with it, eh?
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Sorry, wasn't quite clear in what I was saying.
I'd probably try and get as clear as possible before fermentation if you're going to try with the flour. Not an easy job though. The rice hulls might work but my guess is they'll get gummed up pretty quickly with the Rye.
Don't know how well cold crashing will do either tbh, it'll knock down yeast pretty quickly but I'm not sure about the rest of the particulate from the flour. Had some wit biers kegged up that stayed cloudy until the last glass.
I'd probably try and get as clear as possible before fermentation if you're going to try with the flour. Not an easy job though. The rice hulls might work but my guess is they'll get gummed up pretty quickly with the Rye.
Don't know how well cold crashing will do either tbh, it'll knock down yeast pretty quickly but I'm not sure about the rest of the particulate from the flour. Had some wit biers kegged up that stayed cloudy until the last glass.
Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Beta-glucan rests, alpha and beta amylase are probably worth looking into.
If you can do a stepped mash you might be able to pull this off. The glucan rest is at a much lower temp than a normal mash, can't remember the exact temp sorry. Would help break down some of the mess that rye makes. Some proteins are broken down, making the mash more liquid. Don't know how it would go with rye flour, haven't tried anything with heavy rye tbh.
Hope this helps you some.
If you can do a stepped mash you might be able to pull this off. The glucan rest is at a much lower temp than a normal mash, can't remember the exact temp sorry. Would help break down some of the mess that rye makes. Some proteins are broken down, making the mash more liquid. Don't know how it would go with rye flour, haven't tried anything with heavy rye tbh.
Hope this helps you some.
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
It's more or less like 20 minutes at 45oC.Dathhu wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:07 am Beta-glucan rests, alpha and beta amylase are probably worth looking into.
If you can do a stepped mash you might be able to pull this off. The glucan rest is at a much lower temp than a normal mash, can't remember the exact temp sorry. Would help break down some of the mess that rye makes. Some proteins are broken down, making the mash more liquid. Don't know how it would go with rye flour, haven't tried anything with heavy rye tbh.
Hope this helps you some.
Yepp, gotit, thanx
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
If you got a thumper do not worry about it
Slimey or not,dump it in 5he thumper and steam it.
Rye don't worry me anymore cause steam stripping makes it easy
Slimey or not,dump it in 5he thumper and steam it.
Rye don't worry me anymore cause steam stripping makes it easy
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
No thumper, no steam boiler
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Can the boiler be stirred constantly
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Sorry vlag,i should have read the previous postsdukethebeagle120 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:48 pm If you got a thumper do not worry about it
Slimey or not,dump it in 5he thumper and steam it.
Rye don't worry me anymore cause steam stripping makes it easy
Shady is rite
But me,i would not attempt it without steaming or agitating
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Stirring/agitation... I could heat it up for running "manually" on my induction until the temp exceeds 60C. Then should seal the lid and turn the heat slow and down. As per the GrainFather (where I still think to effect mashing, too) - it has a pump. But it's a bad agitator, in my poor experiencedukethebeagle120 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:17 pm i would not attempt it without steaming or agitating
I got an additional false bottom like this and it fits well for my GF. What's more, it adsorbed about 90% of the whirlfloc'ed sediment. So, my current idea is to mash that rye starting from 70C and down to 62C (in that way, low or no heat elements usage expected). But will the "Irish moss" work at 60-62C, after all, ehm?
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Gallotannins like Brewtan B and so forth... will I make my "all rye life" easier or not?
What do you think, folks?
One more link FYI...
What do you think, folks?
One more link FYI...
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
VLAGAVULVIN wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:49 pm Gallotannins like Brewtan B and so forth... will I make my "all rye life" easier or not?
What do you think, folks?
One more link FYI...
Any updates on this? Did you end up doing the Rye flour mash?
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Not yet... still pregnant with this idea...
(and still awaiting the small Brewtan B parcel sent by courier)
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Being a year pregnant, my poor head gave finally birth to this Frankenstein. And since I fed myself some burnt sh!t my rye concept is changed.
It's so far "all rye malt" but fermented on the grain and by means of Angel Yellow Label (koji tech or about). Only 6 kg rye + water up to 40 l of the mash total (pretty thin, yeah). Just a week and it's done. False bottom + cotton sack + induction = everything's top-notch with my stripping run this time.
Have to say that the feints of the 2nd run are definitely poisonous (as for my nose). And the feints of the 3rd run could be definitely added to some oak aging stuff. As per "the product itself"... it's predictably intermediate between pot and fluite. Nose is OK but there are perceptible grainy tails in mouthfeel. It's the perfect base for cask or oak chips but still a bit more bread-ish than I'd wish to get for my white dog flask.
So, gonna think some more about it. Of course, my off-the-grain wort would give a "cleaner" finish but I'm not so masochistic as to squeeze hot rye with my hands still running the risk that after all it will burn.
Very likely, I need my switching to tails earlier during both 2nd and 3rd runs. Am I wrong? Right? Left? Central? Feel free to share some piece of brain on it if any
It's so far "all rye malt" but fermented on the grain and by means of Angel Yellow Label (koji tech or about). Only 6 kg rye + water up to 40 l of the mash total (pretty thin, yeah). Just a week and it's done. False bottom + cotton sack + induction = everything's top-notch with my stripping run this time.
Have to say that the feints of the 2nd run are definitely poisonous (as for my nose). And the feints of the 3rd run could be definitely added to some oak aging stuff. As per "the product itself"... it's predictably intermediate between pot and fluite. Nose is OK but there are perceptible grainy tails in mouthfeel. It's the perfect base for cask or oak chips but still a bit more bread-ish than I'd wish to get for my white dog flask.
So, gonna think some more about it. Of course, my off-the-grain wort would give a "cleaner" finish but I'm not so masochistic as to squeeze hot rye with my hands still running the risk that after all it will burn.
Very likely, I need my switching to tails earlier during both 2nd and 3rd runs. Am I wrong? Right? Left? Central? Feel free to share some piece of brain on it if any
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
... hehehe, it's transforming... definitely, it's getting transformed to a better thing... dunno... gentle flowery spices? not peppery yet, not at all...
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Following with interest. .
You commented that it was a bit “bread ish”. That is likely coming from the malt. Using more unmalted rye could help reduce that (based on my reading.). I’ve been reading up on making rye recently because I’m planning to run a 100% unmalted rye as soon as my grains arrive. Damn supply chain issues have my grains on backorder for at least a month now.
I only plan on a double distillation at this time, but I’ll keep triple distillation in mind if the spice is too much. Otis
You commented that it was a bit “bread ish”. That is likely coming from the malt. Using more unmalted rye could help reduce that (based on my reading.). I’ve been reading up on making rye recently because I’m planning to run a 100% unmalted rye as soon as my grains arrive. Damn supply chain issues have my grains on backorder for at least a month now.
I only plan on a double distillation at this time, but I’ll keep triple distillation in mind if the spice is too much. Otis
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Re: all rye malt, triple distilled :: any opinion is welcome
Thank you, mate!
So, what the mash bill should be? Half by half, malted rye vs. bakers' rye flour?
And this what the 21st year of the 21st century actually is
Just now I'm on my stripping run of the Gen.-2 (same 100% rye malt as before). After adding the proper feints to my low wines, gonna proof it all down to 20% AbV and wanna add the charcoal for a night or two. It's for the sake of overcoming the surplus bread, imo. And for getting rid of some fusels, of course.
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