Help with my whiskey mash

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Help with my whiskey mash

Post by Deplorable »

I'm going to mash the following bourbon mash bill.

75% Corn 37.5#
13% Rye malt 6.5#
12% 2 row Barley malt 6#
26 gallons of water
US-05 Yeast
enzymes

I want to try a glucan rest on the Rye before adding it into the gelled and cooled Corn meal. This is where I'd like guidance in my process.
Using SCD's easy large batch mashing process, I plan to bring 11 gallons of water to a boil, and mix with half the corn, cover, and repeat to gell the 37.5# of corn, adding HTL at 190F cover and let the temp drop to 150. (This process brought me excellent results on my CROW bourbon mash, but I mashed in the whole water amount, and added dry malts to the corn mash.)

While the corn works, add my rye to 2.5 gallons of water and bring to 105 to 110F and hold 30 to 45 minutes stirring occasionally.
When the corn reaches 150, add backset to adjust pH, and raise the temp of the rye mash to 145F, and add the rye mash, and the dry barley malt to the corn and mix with a mortar mixer and add the low temp enzymes, cover and rest to pitching temp for the .5 gallon US-05 yeast slurry.

The unknown is the time it will take for the corn to drop temp. So I figure I can wait an hour or two, or three before starting the rye mash.
Do I need to continue to hold that glucan rest temp until the corn comes down, or do I raise it to 145, and hold it there until the corn drops?
Or, can I kill the heat after the rest, and not worry about it until the corn is almost ready?
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Help with my whiskey mash

Post by still_stirrin »

I’d use the hot corn porridge to raise the rye malt to saccharification temperature. So, after you’ve held the rye at the glucan rest for 30-45 minutes, begin adding the corn back to it. And then, when you’ve got the corn all doughed in, add a little backset to sour the mash and check your temperature.

Adjust with cool (or hot) water as needed to get to the correct temperature. But judging from your ratios, I think you’ll be too warm with the mash, so add cool water as you add the corn in and keep track of your mash temperature so you don’t overshoot 150*F.

The thing to know is that you don’t have to add heat to the rye and barley malts as you increase the temperature. Simply use the heat that’s already in your gelatinizing corn.

Sure, it is a lot of work. But, it’s the fun of brewing. And just like the cook in the kitchen, the technique you use will create a signature product.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Help with my whiskey mash

Post by Deplorable »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:48 pm I’d use the hot corn porridge to raise the rye malt to saccharification temperature. So, after you’ve held the rye at the glucan rest for 30-45 minutes, begin adding the corn back to it. And then, when you’ve got the corn all doughed in, add a little backset to sour the mash and check your temperature.

Adjust with cool (or hot) water as needed to get to the correct temperature. But judging from your ratios, I think you’ll be too warm with the mash, so add cool water as you add the corn in and keep track of your mash temperature so you don’t overshoot 150*F.

The thing to know is that you don’t have to add heat to the rye and barley malts as you increase the temperature. Simply use the heat that’s already in your gelatinizing corn.

Sure, it is a lot of work. But, it’s the fun of brewing. And just like the cook in the kitchen, the technique you use will create a signature product.
ss
I had to read that a couple of times before I got it. Lets make sure..
After the glucan rest, take hot porridge from my Brute fermenter, and slowly dough it into the rye mash to acheive the correct sacc temperature for the rye specifically. Then add that mix back into the brute with the rest of the porridge, and mix in the barley at it's proper temperature (148)?

I think I need to go look at the correct temps for the saccrifacation of rye. I was assuming it would be the same as the barley. :oops:

(edit) it looks like I can add the rye after the barley on the way down and the temp continues to fall. Add the barley at 148, and the rye at about 135 to 140?
image.png
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Help with my whiskey mash

Post by still_stirrin »

I do upward infusion steps for rye (beta glucan rest) and wheat (protein rest) to the mash temperature (saccarification) at 148-150*F. Hold each temperature step for 30 to 45 minutes to develop the enzymes for the conversion.

Corn is gelatinized at 185-190*F and then dropped to 148-150*F for saccarification too. So, the timing and mash cycles are separate before coming together in the mash tun. Beta amylase enzymes will convert the starches to fermentable sugars at that (saccarification) temperature.

Also, I use rye malt, not raw or rolled/crimped rye. If you’re using those, then you will need to malt them or be sure to gelatinize the raw grains.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Help with my whiskey mash

Post by Deplorable »

Right. Im gelling the corn by adding boiling water to corn meal and insulating it to hold the temp. Then in a seperate pot bringing the malted rye up to its saccrification temp with a glucan rest along the way before adding it to the corn mash.
So in my head I see it like this:
Gell the corn with boiling water and let it fall to 185(ish) and add HTL
add the Malted barley at 148-150 stir, and hold temp for 45 minutes to an hour and add the next enzyme
add the malted rye mash (after its gluco rest) at about 138 to no more than 140 and wrap it up to mash down to full conversion, before cooling to pitching temperature.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
Ben
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:13 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Help with my whiskey mash

Post by Ben »

From how to brew:

Initial Infusion Equation:
Strike Water Temperature Tw = (.2/r)(T2 - T1) + T2

Mash Infusion Equation:
Wa = (T2 - T1)(.2G + Wm)/(Tw - T2)

where:
r = The ratio of water to grain in quarts per pound.
Wa = The amount of boiling water added (in quarts).
Wm = The total amount of water in the mash (in quarts).
T1 = The initial temperature (¡F) of the mash.
T2 = The target temperature (¡F) of the mash.
Tw = The actual temperature (¡F) of the infusion water.
G = The amount of grain in the mash (in pounds).



A little math will tell you what temps you need where.

Do your corn thing, keep track of your grain mass and water addition, check the temp when you are ready to mix everything together.

20 minutes before you are ready to drop your corn temp start the beta-glucan rest on the rye. Once that is done add the required cool/hot water and barley to the rye, mix in the corn. It sounds a little convoluted but in practice you are taking a bunch of steps and combining them into one mix step, if you can hit 148° you will be able to let it run starch conversion for several hours without too much heat loss.

You very likely have all the heat energy needed for the mash step stored in the corn, how much rye is in this recipe? If it is 20% or less you may be able to get away with out the glucan rest, just use some rice hulls and a thin mash (1.5:1) to keep it loose.
:)
Post Reply