Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by kiwi Bruce »

How doe's it taste now, after aging an extra few months? If you don't like it still, can you describe for us what it is you taste and dislike.
Now to try and help! Did you ferment and/or distill on the grain? I found this can leave a bitter flavor in my spirit. Someone said it could be that you went too deep into the tails? Anyway...you can run your whisky through activated charcoal...the process is on HD forum somewhere. If you do this in a one foot length of packed 1/2 inch copper pipe, you will have to run it through several times to get the result you want (getting rid of the off taste) but you will have the control to stop when you achieve that and not lose all your oak flavor. Re-toast and then re-char your white oak and continue to age. I like to warm bath and then do an Odin's freezer rest, let it slowly come back to room temp, and don't be afraid to repeat this three or four times a month, tasting each time, I know it's a terrible burden...but someone has to do it...and it might as well be you!
Keep letting us know how it goes, good luck Kiwi Bruce.
PS...look up speed aging here on the HD forums...If I'm not drinking my whiskeys, still to glass in three months, then I F#2%ed up somewhere along the way., just saying, and I know I'm not the only one here on HD forums that does this...
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by bluc »

Do you have virgin oak or reclaimed? Virgin is a whole nuther kettle fish flavour wise and nessacary for burbon..
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by SDEngr1 »

I "age" my bourbon by placing in a freezer overnight, thawing the next morning then placing in a hot water bath (150 F), then placing in direct sunshine and repeating this process for three to four times. This is all done at 50% ABV in a jar with charred oak strips, normally 3, that were heated to 360 F for 2 hours prior to charring. I have excellent bourbon within a couple of weeks. Much of it ages longer depending on how my consumption rate is doing. It does get better with age and I often remove some of the oak strips if I see too much color developing.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by FL Brewer »

I know this is a fairly old thread, but wanted to add my $0.02. I've made plenty of whiskey, none of it has been really good at less than a year. It's very nice after 2 years, and the rare batch that makes it to 3 years is excellent. There is absolutely no substitute for time. I now make AG batches using 100 lbs of grain (nets about 4 gal of 60% aging stock) so that I have enough to be tasted every so often after it hits a year and still have some left at 3 years. Make more, let it age.

My aging is done in gallon glass jars about 3/4 full with one stick of toasted and heavily charred 3/4 x 3/4 x 8" oak sticks, Jack Daniels half barrel from Home Depot is the wood source. Aged in the attic here in FL, 110F in the summer afternoons, 40F on the coldest winter nights. About once a month I remove the caps on the jars for some air exchange. I also do about a month of one day in the freezer, one day in the sink at ambient temp to temp cycle before going into the attic for aging.

Good whiskey takes time. Excellent whiskey takes a lot of time.
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Steve Broady
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Steve Broady »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:04 pm I can say from experience that 6 months of winter aging is nothing compared to 6 months of summer aging (I age in the attic). Jars and barrels.
This caught my attention. I’m in central North Carolina, where temperatures in my attic can easily get above 120F (or at least did before I installed a fan. I haven’t checked since then), and the humidity is often in the 90% range. I’ve thought about putting a 5 gallon barrel in the attic, but worried that it would be too extreme an environment and cause too much loss. This comment and the one above from FL Brewer make me question that assumption. Can anyone offer an opinion?
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

I can lose 20% a year in a barrel, but I only keep it there for about a year in a 5 gallon. In a glass jar with a lid, no loss in some that are even 5 years in attic. No one can answer, you just got to beat that trail down yourself.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Twisted Brick »

Steve Broady wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:48 pm
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:04 pm I can say from experience that 6 months of winter aging is nothing compared to 6 months of summer aging (I age in the attic). Jars and barrels.
This caught my attention. I’m in central North Carolina, where temperatures in my attic can easily get above 120F (or at least did before I installed a fan. I haven’t checked since then), and the humidity is often in the 90% range. I’ve thought about putting a 5 gallon barrel in the attic, but worried that it would be too extreme an environment and cause too much loss. This comment and the one above from FL Brewer make me question that assumption. Can anyone offer an opinion?
It's not just temperature that affects how a spirit reacts inside a barrel. Barometric pressure plays a role too. My current barrel (5gal) for the first year was kept on the back patio out of the sun but covered with a cardboard box partially open on one side. It is very hot and dry here July thru October. At 20mo the barrel has given a considerable amount to the angels (and unchecked sampling) but the proof has risen from 62.5 to 64%, indicating the internal pressure in the barrel pushed out more water than alcohol into the 100F dry desert air.

Still_stirrin sums this up well:
.
still_stirrin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:14 am Ambient conditions affect shrinkage. The barometric pressure and relative humidity will determine what evaporates, alcohol or water, and to what extent. Hot humid environments will draw out alcohol. But cool arid environments will draw out water. So, the proof can go down or up. And the cask’s surface area and ullage does affect the rate of loss.

I’ve had a small 10 liter cask aging in the winter (in the cellar) and the proof has risen by 3 to 4%ABV. And I’ve had another small cask drop 4 to 5%ABV in the same cellar through the summer. And ironically, the cellar temperature is quite constant throughout the year. But obviously the barometric pressure changes regularly (cloudy days and sunny days are an indication, right?) and the corresponding relative humidity will vary as well.

Now, it is impossible to predict how much shrinkage any one cask will experience, but it will happen. I check the aging process periodically to monitor progress, and I do top it up when I do this. A jar of white whiskey kept on hand is wise to have for this purpose.

To any and all new hobbiests, the aging process is a fundamental component of “the art”, so how you do it will reflect in your artistry as much as the recipe, your brewing and fermentation processes, the still, and your distillation and cut processes.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by jpparts »

I like this ""Good whiskey takes time. Excellent whiskey takes a lot of time.""

I have two 3L barrels filled and patiently waiting. First, they were in jars with American and French oak cubes. A few days in the fridge, then I would let them sit in a hot water bath at about 130F for 6 to 12 hours. Then back in the fridge. I did that for 4-5 weeks then filled my barrels. The barrels go between sitting in the kitchen to the fridge. Thinking about covering them with a heating pads. They have been in the barrels 6 weeks now, and though Christmas is over, I am looking at them like a kid at Christmas,,,,trying to remember that....""Good whiskey takes time. Excellent whiskey takes a lot of time.""
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Laredo7mm »

I am finally getting around to aging some 110 proof spirits on toasted oak strips. Been drinking it clear for a few years now. Toasted white oak sticks at 400F. Each one is about 1/2 x 1/2 x 6 inches. I used 4 per gallon. In a week or two it will be 3 months since the start. I am aging in a 5 gallon keg. Every two weeks I put 10 PSI of CO2 to the keg, let it sit for 24 hours, then let the pressure out and give her a shake. I don’t have a way of pulling a vacuum on it unless I heat it up, vent it, seal it, and then let it cool.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Laredo7mm wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:06 pm I am finally getting around to aging some 110 proof spirits on toasted oak strips. Been drinking it clear for a few years now. Toasted white oak sticks at 400F. Each one is about 1/2 x 1/2 x 6 inches. I used 4 per gallon. In a week or two it will be 3 months since the start. I am aging in a 5 gallon keg. Every two weeks I put 10 PSI of CO2 to the keg, let it sit for 24 hours, then let the pressure out and give her a shake. I don’t have a way of pulling a vacuum on it unless I heat it up, vent it, seal it, and then let it cool.
Are you pressurizing and depressurizing to pull spirit in and out of the sticks?

Assuming you’re using a decent amount of wood, there is no need to do this. Just leave it be with intermittent airing and shaking and let it sit for a long time.

I’ve found some of these accelerated oaking techniques just makes a product that tastes like wood. Less oak / more time is a better practice.

If you insist on continuing this technique, you’d probably be better off using compressed air vs CO2 to get the benefits of micro oxidation. Leaving your kegs with CO2 in them removes one of the major benefits of aging, oxygen exposure.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by 6 Row Joe »

Think of it this way, look at Scotches and Irish. They maturate for years because of the cool climate and many of the barrels are stored in cellars and caves. 12-18 years are not uncommon. Kentucky is warmer, more humid, more temp swings and the barrels often stored in metal buildings. And, brick rickhouses do produce different results. Texas whiskey matures fast. 2 years = about 4 in Kentucky they say. Your jars are waiting patiently for warmer weather. Sunshine through a basement can help but it isn't a cure for winter and cold temps.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Laredo7mm »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:18 pm Are you pressurizing and depressurizing to pull spirit in and out of the sticks?

Assuming you’re using a decent amount of wood, there is no need to do this. Just leave it be with intermittent airing and shaking and let it sit for a long time.

I’ve found some of these accelerated oaking techniques just makes a product that tastes like wood. Less oak / more time is a better practice.

If you insist on continuing this technique, you’d probably be better off using compressed air vs CO2 to get the benefits of micro oxidation. Leaving your kegs with CO2 in them removes one of the major benefits of aging, oxygen exposure.
Yes, pressurizing to try and drive more spirit into the wood. I also did the aeration deal after I release the pressure from the keg. I open the top and blow air into it with a small fan to try and get the CO2 out. Then put the cap back on and give her a good shake. I am using four 1/2 x1/2 x 6 inch sticks per gallon. I toasted the sticks at 400 degrees F.

I am going to try just some charred sticks next with no toasting. The current experiment is working but the color is quite light. It’s been on oak for about 3 months with the pressurizing and purging done every two weeks. The flavor is definitely different that it’s white dog counterpart. Just not enough color or flavor yet, but I can tell that the malty/grainy flavor is less than in the white, and there is some vanilla starting to come through. It either needs more oak or more time, or both. Lol.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Deplorable »

I wouldn't add more Oak, I'd add more time. For me, in the PNW, my glass aged stuff really starts coming around at about the 10 month mark. my sticks are .7 inch square and 5 inches long, toasted and charred to an alligator char.
If you want darker color you need to char your wood, not just toast it. I've got some straight corn aging on toasted cherry, it's still light in color after over a year on wood. The flavor is amazing, but the color is very light compared to the same spirit aged in a charred oak barrel for the same amount of time.
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

Post by Laredo7mm »

Right on, I will try charring some sticks on the next round. I’m not sure how long my 3 month old stuff will last as I think I’m about out of the clear stuff. Might have a gallon or so left. I need one more stripping run to add to my other two that I have collected before I do a spirit run. Then I will have a bunch of white to experiment with. Hopefully I can get that spirit run done before I run out of the white dog sipping whiskey that I currently have.

What level of toast do you do before charring? I have read many different approaches, so it is probably one of those things that is different for everybody. :)
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Re: Bourbon 4 months old no improvement

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Laredo7mm wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:57 pm Right on, I will try charring some sticks on the next round. I’m not sure how long my 3 month old stuff will last as I think I’m about out of the clear stuff. Might have a gallon or so left. I need one more stripping run to add to my other two that I have collected before I do a spirit run. Then I will have a bunch of white to experiment with. Hopefully I can get that spirit run done before I run out of the white dog sipping whiskey that I currently have.

What level of toast do you do before charring? I have read many different approaches, so it is probably one of those things that is different for everybody. :)
I think it is, and you can find a lot if information here. Personally I like 400f for 45 minutes wrapped in foil for my oak, cherry I toast a little lower.
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