Ammo reloading

[frodo]

I reload a few calibers, the one I have been working on the most
is the 6.5x55.
I bought 3000 rounds of swedish training rounds from samco global arms
these are wood tipped bullets.
I think swede and I have discussed them on here,,somewhere
I pull the wood, and throw the wood away
I am left with primed NORMA cases and powder

as you can see from the picture, the powder looks to be square flaked
not at all like American powder.

so i spent a few weeks resaearching the powder.
the conclusion i arrived at, a fast burn powder akin/like unigue pistol powder

yu cant use, a fast pistol powder for rifle
UNLESS...you slow your ft per second down. but WTF good is that?
AHHHHH..copper plated bullets. require a slower fps
so i have been using the swede powder in 30/30 cases with copper plated bullets
working out ok...

[contrahead]

Didja resize 'em first? If not, I imagine the recoil got your attention seein's how 147 grains is considered a heavy bullet in 9mm.

Come to think of it, that might have been the problem. The 9mm cartridge is so efficient that it is almost impossible to double charge it. Otherwise, those loads were sluggish but did pack a wallop when they finally reached the target.

* Frodo's mention of wood reminded me of some Nazi 9mm ammo that I've seen in a bullet collection. Late in the war they were so hard up for materials that they were actually manufacturing wooden bullets for their pistol ammo.

[frodo]

Mr Rob,
Contrahead gave you excellant advice,
reloading is like distilling, get a book, I recomend the lyman 49th edition
and read read read..
I look at it this way, you are making a small bomb, that you want to set off about 6''
from your face.

I think you would be just a WEEEEEEE bit concerned about that

I use an old single stage press, {herters} and do not allow a radio or tv on when I reload
concentration to detail is a must

[T-Pee]

And don't show folk how your new progressive works when you're just learning how to run it yourself.
This caused the near-instant modification of the afore-mentioned S&W M686.

tp

[T-Pee]

Well, I don't know whether to be pleased or chapped.

Ordered 100 brand new Winchester .30-'06 cases from Brownell's for a new varmint load I'm working up with 110gr V'Max bullets. Feeling pretty good about finally improving my brass for the Remington until...

I was in town digging around the storage locker for a Drill Doctor I knew I had somewhere when I see a box I haven't looked into in at least 4 years. What do I find?
Another box 12"x12"x12" and it's 3/4 full of assorted rifle brass and of that, close to half is...you guessed it. Winchester .30-'06 brass.

I guess I'm pleased. smh

tp

[rubber duck]

Deleted lol

[frodo]

50 year old herter's oil dampened scale, catches my digital in a lie.

2nd pic. hydronic berdan decapping tools 6.5x55 and 8mm

22lr belt

[T-Pee]

I didn't know stuff like that ^^ existed.

tp

[frodo]

Well, I don't know whether to be pleased or chapped.

Ordered 100 brand new Winchester .30-'06 cases from Brownell's for a new varmint load I'm working up with 110gr V'Max bullets. Feeling pretty good about finally improving my brass for the Remington until...

I was in town digging around the storage locker for a Drill Doctor I knew I had somewhere when I see a box I haven't looked into in at least 4 years. What do I find?
Another box 12"x12"x12" and it's 3/4 full of assorted rifle brass and of that, close to half is...you guessed it. Winchester .30-'06 brass.

I guess I'm pleased. smh

tp

if you want to get rid of some of that 30/06 brass
going price around here for 1 shot is $20.00 per hundred. and $6.00 for a small flat rate usps box

i'll take a 100

looking for 30 30 brass.



http://www.darkcanyon.net/loadsperpound.html



tp..i reload berdan also,,,,i have a picture of a rcbs berdan decapper....somewhere
if i find it i'll post it

[contrahead]

For those that might be interested & before this thread vanishes into obscurity, I thought I’d mention the lost art of hand loading ‘ultralight ammunition’. I didn’t sit down and construct this today; the following is copy/pasted from a blog.

The only kind of factory or commercial ammunition available for high powered hunting rifles is maxim power / high velocity ammunition. This expensive ammunition can be hard on the rifle and in larger calibers can even become unpleasant to shoot.

In the past reloading publications contained more information dedicated to what are properly called “light” loads, which are much more pleasant and economical to shoot in a high powered rifle. Light loads typically involve using hardened cast lead bullets which are usually swaged and lubricated with alox and perhaps stamped with a brass or copper gas check on the base.
Light loads are driven at lower velocities to prevent deforming the bullet or the smearing lead along the sides of the barrel.

Ultralight loads are even lower in velocity than light loads and you won’t find [this] reloading information in any modern handbook. The cost for this recreational ammunition is trifling.

ult4r.jpg (11.58 KiB) Viewed 3271 times

Above is an image of a .30 caliber cartridge loaded with a #1 Buck shot (7.62mm / .30 cal) lead ball. Just a tiny bit (1 to 3 grains) of fast pistol powder is used as propellant in the freshly primed case. The ball is seated into the case mouth by hand pressure alone, excess metal being easily sheared off by the brass case mouth. A little cotton or other fluff can be inserted over the top of the powder to keep it down close to the primer in such a large casing. Since repetitively measuring such a small amount of powder is impractical a home made powder scoop can be made from a spent .22 rim fire case. A .22 short powder scoop with a piece of wire or paper clip soldered on as a handle, will throw about 2.2 grains of “Bullseye” powder. A similar scoop made with a .22 long rifle case would throw about 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Slower burning pistol/shotgun combination powders like “Unique” and “Hi-Skor 700x” will also produce fine ultralight loads.

Ultralight loads can be produced for any pistol or rifle caliber. Their purpose is to act as pleasurable short range, low danger and low noise “plinking” ammunition. The whole point of ultralight loads is lost if too much propellant is applied, because accuracy will fail. Modern rifles have barrels with high rates of rifling twist, which is needed to stabilize jacketed bullets at very high velocities. The old flintlock rifles used two centuries ago had a very slow rate of rifling twist (something like 1 turn in 66 inches) which was needed to properly stabilize or impart spin to a patched round ball. Because a round ball makes so little surface contact with the rifling, the velocities of ultralight loads in modern rifles need to be kept very low. Ultralight cartridge loads are much less lethal than regular ammunition but they are not “toy” loads and should be treated with respect.

traj.jpg (13.09 KiB) Viewed 3271 times

A scoped deer rifle can perform fairly accurately with ultralight ammunition at a distance between 50 feet and 80 yards. The line of sight from a gun site or scope is a very different path from the flight path or trajectory that a bullet takes. The bullet actually crosses the line of sight twice; once at a close distance and then again downrange depending upon the elevation of the sights. For a typical high-powered and scoped hunting rifle that is ‘dialed in’ for accuracy at 300 yards, a normal projectile might first cross the line of sight at 100 feet.

In the buckshot image above, #1 buckshot is .30 caliber size and will produce ultralight rounds in .30 cal firearms, including: 30-30 Win, 30 M1 Carbine, 300 Savage, 308 Win, 308 Norma, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 Russian, 30-40 Krag, 30-06, 300 H&H, 300 Win Mag and 300 Weatherby Mag, not to mention several antique pistols chambered in .30 cal. The British 303, Jap 7.7 and Russian 7.62 x 39 cartridges have a bit larger .311 bore diameter so if the # 1 buck does not satisfy then the #0 buckshot will accommodate a tighter fit. Size F, FF and #2 round lead ball moulds are rare or do not exist, so the only common rifle or pistol calibers not matched to a popular buckshot caliber are the “22’s” and the .270 Win and .270 Weatherby cartridges.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Deleted - Not posting here anymore

[frodo]

I know nothing about reloading but it kinda seams like distilling.... you need to read a lot or you blow your face off.

Where is a good forum to start with reloading?

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdispla ... ers-Digest


https://www.msgo.com/forums/reloading-ammunition.11/



buy...http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-49th-Editio ... g+handbook

it is just like distilling, read read read,,then do

[frodo]

For those that might be interested & before this thread vanishes into obscurity, I thought I’d mention the lost art of hand loading ‘ultralight ammunition’. I didn’t sit down and construct this today; the following is copy/pasted from a blog.

The only kind of factory or commercial ammunition available for high powered hunting rifles is maxim power / high velocity ammunition. This expensive ammunition can be hard on the rifle and in larger calibers can even become unpleasant to shoot.

In the past reloading publications contained more information dedicated to what are properly called “light” loads, which are much more pleasant and economical to shoot in a high powered rifle. Light loads typically involve using hardened cast lead bullets which are usually swaged and lubricated with alox and perhaps stamped with a brass or copper gas check on the base.
Light loads are driven at lower velocities to prevent deforming the bullet or the smearing lead along the sides of the barrel.

Ultralight loads are even lower in velocity than light loads and you won’t find [this] reloading information in any modern handbook. The cost for this recreational ammunition is trifling.

ult4r.jpg

Above is an image of a .30 caliber cartridge loaded with a #1 Buck shot (7.62mm / .30 cal) lead ball. Just a tiny bit (1 to 3 grains) of fast pistol powder is used as propellant in the freshly primed case. The ball is seated into the case mouth by hand pressure alone, excess metal being easily sheared off by the brass case mouth. A little cotton or other fluff can be inserted over the top of the powder to keep it down close to the primer in such a large casing. Since repetitively measuring such a small amount of powder is impractical a home made powder scoop can be made from a spent .22 rim fire case. A .22 short powder scoop with a piece of wire or paper clip soldered on as a handle, will throw about 2.2 grains of “Bullseye” powder. A similar scoop made with a .22 long rifle case would throw about 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Slower burning pistol/shotgun combination powders like “Unique” and “Hi-Skor 700x” will also produce fine ultralight loads.

Ultralight loads can be produced for any pistol or rifle caliber. Their purpose is to act as pleasurable short range, low danger and low noise “plinking” ammunition. The whole point of ultralight loads is lost if too much propellant is applied, because accuracy will fail. Modern rifles have barrels with high rates of rifling twist, which is needed to stabilize jacketed bullets at very high velocities. The old flintlock rifles used two centuries ago had a very slow rate of rifling twist (something like 1 turn in 66 inches) which was needed to properly stabilize or impart spin to a patched round ball. Because a round ball makes so little surface contact with the rifling, the velocities of ultralight loads in modern rifles need to be kept very low. Ultralight cartridge loads are much less lethal than regular ammunition but they are not “toy” loads and should be treated with respect.

traj.jpg

A scoped deer rifle can perform fairly accurately with ultralight ammunition at a distance between 50 feet and 80 yards. The line of sight from a gun site or scope is a very different path from the flight path or trajectory that a bullet takes. The bullet actually crosses the line of sight twice; once at a close distance and then again downrange depending upon the elevation of the sights. For a typical high-powered and scoped hunting rifle that is ‘dialed in’ for accuracy at 300 yards, a normal projectile might first cross the line of sight at 100 feet.

shots4b.jpg

In the buckshot image above, #1 buckshot is .30 caliber size and will produce ultralight rounds in .30 cal firearms, including: 30-30 Win, 30 M1 Carbine, 300 Savage, 308 Win, 308 Norma, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 Russian, 30-40 Krag, 30-06, 300 H&H, 300 Win Mag and 300 Weatherby Mag, not to mention several antique pistols chambered in .30 cal. The British 303, Jap 7.7 and Russian 7.62 x 39 cartridges have a bit larger .311 bore diameter so if the # 1 buck does not satisfy then the #0 buckshot will accommodate a tighter fit. Size F, FF and #2 round lead ball moulds are rare or do not exist, so the only common rifle or pistol calibers not matched to a popular buckshot caliber are the “22’s” and the .270 Win and .270 Weatherby cartridges.

1 to 5 grains ill gause a squib. this info is false

[contrahead]

1 to 5 grains ill gause a squib. this info is false

1-3 grains of hot powder was mentioned, 1-5 was not. Instead of quoting the whole, long comment perhaps you could target something specific? Much of this information was origionally published 40 yrs ago, in an Outdoor Life Book by a retired Army ordnance officer, named Major George C. Nonte Jr.

Quote: "read read read'.

[DAD300]

Reloading allows for a lot of unique rounds.

Another reason to make lighter rifle loads is that you can use lead bullets! Home made or store bought, heavy, slow, lead bullets are game getters.

I cringe at the cost of factory Rat Shot rounds for a pistol. I can make them for almost nothing. I have even made them with wax...as the projectile. Using wax you don't have to crimp the end ruining the case.

Ever seen the mounted pistol cowboys shooting balloons? They use wax bullets or blanks with sand in them.

For .38Spl, I melt a hard wax into a big jar lid ~1/2" thick. Let cool hard, load a case and jam the open end in the hard wax, scrape off the excess and wipe clean. You can add some actual lead shot if you want more range.

[RandyMarshCT]

Interesting thread. I bought a Lee single stage setup years ago and have never reloaded anything with it. I keep a lot of brass, assuming someday I'm gonna get the itch.

Is Fiocchi brass good for reloading? That's what the majority of my stockpile is (pistol, rifle, & shotgun).

[contrahead]

Is Fiocchi brass good for reloading?

Fiocchi is an old company and by and large its brass is excellent. You may find a reloader here and there that does not favor Fiocchi brass of a particular caliber. The same can be said of almost all brass manufactured - by whatever company.

I am accustomed to culling out (into a separate batch) all 9mm brass head-stamped with WIN (Winchester). Because it (WIN) is ever so slightly thinner than most other (9mm) brass- the bullets don’t seat that firmly in it. But this is not the situation with WIN brass cases in other calibers.

[T-Pee]

Happiness is...

tp

[frodo]

happiness is shiney brass and a pile of coins

[T-Pee]

How'd you get those cases so shiny?
I use crushed walnut with Brasso and a dab of kerosene to keep the dust down in a vibratory.
Never got 'em to look like that.

tp

[frodo]

he he he...its a secret... use stainless steel pins,

dude, they are the BOMB!!! cleans primer pockets also.

i also use a mixture of hot water, liquid shine, and dawn dish soap

only draw back is the tumbler, they are expensive.

BUUUUUUUUT, for people like us that make stuff, find a old treadmill someone wants to give away
and modify it.

here is mine http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3c380 ... -001_sport

[frodo]

couple years back, i decided to go "off the reservation" on my reloading.
to make a LOOOOONG tory short. I am using pistol powder, {fast burn} to reload for a rifle cartridge.
along the way. I called IMR tech team. and I called Norma tech team in sweden.
I talked at lengt to some VERY knowledgable people. WHO at first, dismissed me as a crazy SUMBITCH
who they did not want to talk to.
But, with persistance and a HIGH ASS PHONE BILL,
I managed to get them to "listen" to my BS.
they were very helpfull, after they found out i was not just scooping powder into cases, but actually doing research
and useing a chrony to document my findings.
that I was being safe, not willey nilley .

the one thing both ImR and Norma CAUTIONED on, was lite loads.
they understood. I would start my experiment out with little loads then work up the ft per second
and grains per charge from "X".

according to IMR tech team, AND the tech team for NORMA in sweden
the powder I was usieng has/is the same burn rate of unique powder by Hogdon.

their recommendation for a start load, with a 150 grain copper plated bullet with a fps 1500 or lower was 8 grains
with a caution that 6 grains would cause a catastrophic event. IE blow up in my face.

so, you see, I have done my research, spent over a year working up a load useing pistiol powder [fast burn]
have shot upwards of 1000 rounds thru a chronygraph and documented the fps x grain ratio.

and am telling you, that 1 to 3 grains in a 30 caliber shell with a 12 gauge #1 ball "hand" set on the cae will
be a catastrophic event for the shooter.

lets have a look at WHY

3 grains

1 grain

a rifle cartridge, is longer than a pistol cartridge,
if you install a lite load into a big brass case, the powder will not ignite all at one time.
it cant, unless you have the rifle pointed up, so the powder can all be in the same place.
but that is impractible. a level gun, will have the powder spread from one end of cartridge to the other

when the primer ignites, all of the powder will not ignite. at the same time.
this is important. with out it all igniting at same time, the energy it produces is diminished.
on top of this. you have stated, the ball is not "set" or pressed into the case mouth but is hand installed.

I have a HUGE issue with this statement.

irst off, if you are familure with reloading. you will agree the case mouth stretches when round is fired.
therefore, hand placing is not possible.
secondly, being familure with reloading, you will admit, if the case is resized, the the #1 ball will not fit

it MUST be set using a die or it will just fall out. PERIOD..NO discussion. THATS A FACT JACK

take all this into account, and the article is bunk.

your thoughts ?

[T-Pee]

The same issue was found in the .38 special target loads using small amounts of Bullseye under a 148gr hollow-based wadcutter. The primer flame would flash across the powder lying along the inside of the horzontal case resulting in detonation.

I myself stay away from experimental loading using pistol powder in rifle cartridges.
Murphy is a pita and fire-forming cases for wildcatting is enough excitement for me.

frodo:
I looked at SS pins but decided that re-outfitting another tumbler wasn't worth the hassle.
If my brass is clean enough to not scratch the dies, I'm fairly happy. Really stained brass gets binned anyways.

tp

[frodo]

The same issue was found in the .38 special target loads using small amounts of Bullseye under a 148gr hollow-based wadcutter. The primer flame would flash across the powder lying along the inside of the horzontal case resulting in detonation.

I myself stay away from experimental loading using pistol powder in rifle cartridges.
Murphy is a pita and fire-forming cases for wildcatting is enough excitement for me.

frodo:
I looked at SS pins but decided that re-outfitting another tumbler wasn't worth the hassle.
If my brass is clean enough to not scratch the dies, I'm fairly happy. Really stained brass gets binned anyways.

tp

buddy of mine, told me he tried ss pins dry, in a regular vibrating bowl
like i asssume you have. he said it worked very well.
i have not tried it try, because i do not have a viberating tumbler.

for really stained brass, soak in hot water,squirt if dawn, squirt of lemon fresh
soak for 30 min , dump out, place on a towel and let dry
or but the towel ontop of the ac condenser outside your house.

[T-Pee]

buddy of mine, told me he tried ss pins dry, in a regular vibrating bowl
like i asssume you have. he said it worked very well.
i have not tried it try, because i do not have a viberating tumbler.

The main problem I understand using a vibratory with ss pins is that the brass, being lighter than the pins, tend to "float" on top of the pins.

tp

[frodo]

Maybe, but have you ever watched the vibrater work with the lid off?

the brass seems to move in a circle.

from the outside edge down, across the up in the middle, and around in a circle

crank yours up and look at it.kinda cool actually

dont laugh at this fuked up drawing,,,it ugly as me !!


i will ask sub gun fan for a picture of his brass or video of it, see what he has
get the scoop on his poop

try lizzard litter, cheap at walmart, dryer sheet for dust

[contrahead]

.....“the powder I was usieng has/is the same burn rate of unique powder by Hogdon.”...........
......“and am telling you, that 1 to 3 grains in a 30 caliber shell with a 12 gauge #1 ball "hand" set on the cae will be a catastrophic event for the shooter.....
......“it (ball) MUST be set using a die or it will just fall out. PERIOD..NO discussion. THATS A FACT JACK”...

First “Unique” is an Alliant Powder product. Alliant bought the product line (which includes Bullseye and Unique and others) from Hercules Powder Company. Hercules acquired the original Laflin & Rand patents for this smokeless powder – after Dupont was forced to divest under Federal antitrust pressure in 1912. Hodgdon never once manufactured ‘Unique’ powder and it seems that you don’t care how much disinformation you spread.

I’ve loaded and shot a couple hundred rounds of these before mentioned ‘ultralight loads’. Every example preformed flawlessly and with modest sound and modest pressure. I loaded all the #1 balls, into resized 30-06 cases with my thumb alone. Either I must be Superman or you must be an idiot. I’m leaning towards the latter.

I don’t intend to make life easy on you by providing you with an obvious link – but feel free at any time to google - Major George C. Nonte Jr. He was a well respected authority on reloading and people are still reading his books today. He originally published information on this ultralight load and apparently like me, he had super human hand strength.

It is a shame that you may have tainted for others this useful reloading trick, with your fart in the wind attitude, skepticism and ignorance. You may think that you know it all Buckwheat, but you don’t … This topic is all yours now, I’ve lost interest in it.

[frodo]

Tpee, I contacted him, he said it works, but, as you said, the pins leave the brass behind and is to much a pita to fool with all the time

[T-Pee]

.....“the powder I was usieng has/is the same burn rate of unique powder by Hogdon.”...........
......“and am telling you, that 1 to 3 grains in a 30 caliber shell with a 12 gauge #1 ball "hand" set on the cae will be a catastrophic event for the shooter.....
......“it (ball) MUST be set using a die or it will just fall out. PERIOD..NO discussion. THATS A FACT JACK”...

First “Unique” is an Alliant Powder product. Alliant bought the product line (which includes Bullseye and Unique and others) from Hercules Powder Company. Hercules acquired the original Laflin & Rand patents for this smokeless powder – after Dupont was forced to divest under Federal antitrust pressure in 1912. Hodgdon never once manufactured ‘Unique’ powder and it seems that you don’t care how much disinformation you spread.

I’ve loaded and shot a couple hundred rounds of these before mentioned ‘ultralight loads’. Every example preformed flawlessly and with modest sound and modest pressure. I loaded all the #1 balls, into resized 30-06 cases with my thumb alone. Either I must be Superman or you must be an idiot. I’m leaning towards the latter.

I don’t intend to make life easy on you by providing you with an obvious link – but feel free at any time to google - Major George C. Nonte Jr. He was a well respected authority on reloading and people are still reading his books today. He originally published information on this ultralight load and apparently like me, he had super human hand strength.

It is a shame that you may have tainted for others this useful reloading trick, with your fart in the wind attitude, skepticism and ignorance. You may think that you know it all Buckwheat, but you don’t … This topic is all yours now, I’ve lost interest in it.

You do realize that you could have gotten your point across without being a jerk, right? Probably less typing too.

Thanks for checking on that, frodo.

tp

[frodo]

this guy is funny as hell