Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:52 am

My latest invention, one year in the making, is finally ready to sell.
It dries food at low temperature in any weather and in 3 hours or less.

Comments are welcome (yes it can distill too)
EDIT
I had a rather vigorous Q&A on reddit, but I clarified a lot there (and upvote if you can):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/com ... ated_food/
and there
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comme ... ated_food/
Last edited by manu de hanoi on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by emptyglass » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 am

I've always loved your vacuum work Manu. You have shared much

This lifts it to another level.

Well done friend.

What are your thoughts on the taste of your products compared to traditional methods?
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:49 am

What are your thoughts on the taste of your products compared to traditional methods?
I cant really compare the tastes as I've never tried myself traditional methods. Drying in the saturated vietnamese atmosphere is tricky or impossible in some seasons. A friend had success fridge drying raw meat, it was good but took at least 3 weeks and he had some "losses" along the way. But my tool dries meat in 3 hours !
Also the traditional raw meat products that I love (saucisson, parma ham) involve spices, and I havent had the time to play much with spices. Dry raw meat is rather bland so it's hard to rank.

I believe the quick & low temp drying at the very least improve the looks and vitamins(for fruits). The hot air drying foodstuff I've seen doesnt look nearly as good.
The rolls royce of drying is considered to be "freeze drying", I'm positioning my product as not as good as freeze drying but much cheaper (and faster) alternative.

emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by emptyglass » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:37 am

Freeze drying is energy intensive.

The results of freeze drying or drying meats/veg are not disputed. Manu, You have presented everyone with a potentially new process.

As you know, some may disbelieve and challenge the idea.

I ask them to prove or disprove their point of view, or present a constructive alternative
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:49 am

I ask them to prove or disprove their point of view, or present a constructive alternative
This is a prototype, changes can be made, criticism will help me build a better product.

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:43 am

I had a rather vigorous Q&A on reddit, but I clarified a lot there (and upvote if you can):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/com ... ated_food/
and there
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comme ... ated_food/

User avatar
Single Malt Yinzer
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 am

If you build your vacuum container to accept standard dehydrator trays it probably would make it able to hold more product at one time and have a more consistently dry end product. What you have so far looks really good regardless.

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 am
If you build your vacuum container to accept standard dehydrator trays it probably would make it able to hold more product at one time and have a more consistently dry end product. What you have so far looks really good regardless.
microwaves penetrate differently than the hot air from dehydrators, but increasing capacity is definitely a high priority. There are just many technical challenges that go with it.

User avatar
Single Malt Yinzer
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:25 am

manu de hanoi wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am
microwaves penetrate differently than the hot air
It's not the penetration that I was referring to, it's the off gassing of the water. The areas of the item to be dehydrated that are in contact with another surface won't off gas as evenly as the areas in the open.


manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:11 am

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:25 am
manu de hanoi wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am
microwaves penetrate differently than the hot air
It's not the penetration that I was referring to, it's the off gassing of the water. The areas of the item to be dehydrated that are in contact with another surface won't off gas as evenly as the areas in the open.
I'm not knowledgeable on the off gassing issues. I see what you mean but I dont know how it plays out (apart from saying oranges and apples are better juiced/crushed first).
I would tend to minimize the effect because we are at boiling temp so the pressure should be enough for the steam to escape between 2 pieces touching (and the temp sensors stays below 40 ensuring that the avg pressure hasnt risen enough to affect avg boiling point temp sensibly).
I think the biggest issue I have for increasing capacity is the distribution of microwaves (this is a flatbed microwave btw).... but I could be mistaken

User avatar
Birrofilo
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:42 pm
Location: Caput mundi

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by Birrofilo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Very interesting.

My two-cents suggestions for improving.

The part of the tube outside of the microwave should be made of food-grade "anaconda" tubing, such as those produced in Germany by Anamet
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B075GK4C1D/?co ... _lig_dp_it

Even better, you should shield a part of the tube going into the oven, in such a way as to minimize the use of silicon: alcol is a solvent also a 35° temperature, and especially "foreshots" are.

Choice of container must be very careful regarding transfer of molecules to alcohol: I would prefer a glass container, or a ceramic container, I suppose it is possible to find really inert material which are microwave-transparent. Avoid plastic for distilling wherever possible.

Product must be collected in small jars which must be easily visible-accessible, so that the distiller can collect "fractions" to evaluate later for the final cut.

I would tilt the condenser so that the product "falls" instead of keeping it horizontal.

You should give some figures regarding the actual capability: how much time, energy to "strip" a 20 liter wash at 9% vol?

I suggest you consider the introduction of a "gin basket" in the vapour flow, with a safety valve which discharges pressure.

Excellent work!

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:00 pm

Birrofilo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Very interesting.

My two-cents suggestions for improving.

The part of the tube outside of the microwave should be made of food-grade "anaconda" tubing, such as those produced in Germany by Anamet
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B075GK4C1D/?co ... _lig_dp_it
as I understand this isnt vacuum proof at all, it just comes on the outside of a plastic tube in order to reinforce. I don't see the need to add mechanical protection around the silicon tubes

Even better, you should shield a part of the tube going into the oven, in such a way as to minimize the use of silicon: alcol is a solvent also a 35° temperature, and especially "foreshots" are.
microwave ovens dont like metal inside, it sparks

Choice of container must be very careful regarding transfer of molecules to alcohol: I would prefer a glass container, or a ceramic container, I suppose it is possible to find really inert material which are microwave-transparent. Avoid plastic for distilling wherever possible.
The container inside the oven is glass already, but yes fittings are plastic, PTFE can be used

Product must be collected in small jars which must be easily visible-accessible, so that the distiller can collect "fractions" to evaluate later for the final cut.
I'll think about that when the container is bigger, right now the batch size is just 1L
I would tilt the condenser so that the product "falls" instead of keeping it horizontal.
it is sligthly tilted for that purpose already
You should give some figures regarding the actual capability: how much time, energy to "strip" a 20 liter wash at 9% vol?
I'll think about that when the container is bigger, right now the batch size is just 1L
I suggest you consider the introduction of a "gin basket" in the vapour flow, with a safety valve which discharges pressure.

Excellent work!

manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Food dehydrator (and vacuum distiller)

Post by manu de hanoi » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:33 pm

here's a deep dry run on beef for the jerky lovers:

Post Reply