Stored Juniper for a long time

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artooks
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Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by artooks »

Hi Everyone,

I have Juniper Communis that I purchased 2-3 years ago they are in bags I have never opened them, but they are sitting in my cabinet for a long time, what I am wondering is, can I use dry juniper that has been stored for a long time 2-3 years so does the taste profiles changes dramatically or is it still ok to use them, is there any way to find out if they are good or not ?
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Rrmuf
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by Rrmuf »

artooks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:39 am Hi Everyone,

I have Juniper Communis that I purchased 2-3 years ago they are in bags I have never opened them, but they are sitting in my cabinet for a long time, what I am wondering is, can I use dry juniper that has been stored for a long time 2-3 years so does the taste profiles changes dramatically or is it still ok to use them, is there any way to find out if they are good or not ?
I'm curious as to the answer from the more experienced folks. I understand that if dried you are good for months, but not years. A commercial distiller explained that they freeze juniper berries for best flavour retention for months to come, but I am not sure if he was talking about fresh or dried berries.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by still_stirrin »

When you open the bag, how does it smell? Like juniper? Take a berry and crush it between your fingers. Does it smell like gin?

If it passes “the test”, then use it.

But, a good note for “long term” storage would be to put it in the freezer. Then, remove and thaw only what you need when you plan to use it.
ss

p.s. - as time passes, the berries will lose some of their aromatics, so when making gin you may need to adjust your juniper proportion upward slightly.
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artooks
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by artooks »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:36 am When you open the bag, how does it smell? Like juniper? Take a berry and crush it between your fingers. Does it smell like gin?

If it passes “the test”, then use it.

But, a good note for “long term” storage would be to put it in the freezer. Then, remove and thaw only what you need when you plan to use it.
ss

p.s. - as time passes, the berries will lose some of their aromatics, so when making gin you may need to adjust your juniper proportion upward slightly.

Thanks still_stirrin, I did what you said they are still squish I tasted them they have the smell of gin definitely so how much upward should I adjust the juniper proportion ?
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by jimsgins »

After an 18 month break, I noticed that my gins were coming out quite flat. I then realised that my juniper berries were probably around 4 years old (I bought a lot and the break was not intended). The gin was perfectly drinkable, just a bit flat and not up to the standard that I would normally expect. If I were you I'd make a small batch and see how it is but prepare for the liklihood the berries are probably nearing the end of their useful lives (if they havent already)
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by artooks »

jimsgins wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am After an 18 month break, I noticed that my gins were coming out quite flat. I then realised that my juniper berries were probably around 4 years old (I bought a lot and the break was not intended). The gin was perfectly drinkable, just a bit flat and not up to the standard that I would normally expect. If I were you I'd make a small batch and see how it is but prepare for the liklihood the berries are probably nearing the end of their useful lives (if they havent already)
Hi, Did you increase the amount of Juniper ?
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by still_stirrin »

artooks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:06 am … so how much upward should I adjust the juniper proportion ?
I would (guess to) increase the amount by 25%, or 1.25 times the amount you would normally add by your recipe. But, if you increased it too much to taste, you could always add a little neutral to tame a “juniper forward” taste/aroma.
ss
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by artooks »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:06 pm
artooks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:06 am … so how much upward should I adjust the juniper proportion ?
I would (guess to) increase the amount by 25%, or 1.25 times the amount you would normally add by your recipe. But, if you increased it too much to taste, you could always add a little neutral to tame a “juniper forward” taste/aroma.
ss
Thanks still_stirrin
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by Rrmuf »

jimsgins wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am After an 18 month break, I noticed that my gins were coming out quite flat. I then realised that my juniper berries were probably around 4 years old (I bought a lot and the break was not intended). The gin was perfectly drinkable, just a bit flat and not up to the standard that I would normally expect. If I were you I'd make a small batch and see how it is but prepare for the liklihood the berries are probably nearing the end of their useful lives (if they havent already)
Just a question for clarification: How was the juniper stored for those 4 years? Were they frozen?
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by artooks »

Rrmuf wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 am
jimsgins wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am After an 18 month break, I noticed that my gins were coming out quite flat. I then realised that my juniper berries were probably around 4 years old (I bought a lot and the break was not intended). The gin was perfectly drinkable, just a bit flat and not up to the standard that I would normally expect. If I were you I'd make a small batch and see how it is but prepare for the liklihood the berries are probably nearing the end of their useful lives (if they havent already)
Just a question for clarification: How was the juniper stored for those 4 years? Were they frozen?
Hi no they were kept in a cabinet in normal room temperature conditions
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

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artooks wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:59 am
Rrmuf wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 am
jimsgins wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am After an 18 month break, I noticed that my gins were coming out quite flat. I then realised that my juniper berries were probably around 4 years old (I bought a lot and the break was not intended). The gin was perfectly drinkable, just a bit flat and not up to the standard that I would normally expect. If I were you I'd make a small batch and see how it is but prepare for the liklihood the berries are probably nearing the end of their useful lives (if they havent already)
Just a question for clarification: How was the juniper stored for those 4 years? Were they frozen?
Hi no they were kept in a cabinet in normal room temperature conditions
Thanks for the clarification: I recently picked a whole bunch of juniper berries and they are in the freezer for later use. I was wondering how well they will fare.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by still_stirrin »

Rrmuf,

If you put the berries in a freezer bag and sucked out the air, they’ll keep for years, maybe decades. If you just chucked a jar of berries into the freezer, then the moisture in the air will freeze and will crystalize on the berries. This may create a little “freezer burn” after a while. But even that shouldn’t hurt your berries significantly (since they have “skins”) for a couple of years.

Keep in mind, when you remove them from the freezer, they will “mush” a little because freezing ruptures the cell walls. But this isn’t a concern for gin making because you normally crush them anyway when macerating, right?

Of note, I also keep my grains in the freezer for storage too. I have grains that have been frozen for several years and when I remove some for brewing, they still smell fresh and taste great. Even the enzymes are preserved in the freezer (out of the light and out of the heat which will degrade enzyme quality).
ss
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

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still_stirrin wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:57 am Rrmuf,

If you put the berries in a freezer bag and sucked out the air, they’ll keep for years, maybe decades. If you just chucked a jar of berries into the freezer, then the moisture in the air will freeze and will crystalize on the berries. This may create a little “freezer burn” after a while. But even that shouldn’t hurt your berries significantly (since they have “skins”) for a couple of years.

Keep in mind, when you remove them from the freezer, they will “mush” a little because freezing ruptures the cell walls. But this isn’t a concern for gin making because you normally crush them anyway when macerating, right?

Of note, I also keep my grains in the freezer for storage too. I have grains that have been frozen for several years and when I remove some for brewing, they still smell fresh and taste great. Even the enzymes are preserved in the freezer (out of the light and out of the heat which will degrade enzyme quality).
ss
Awesome! Thanks SS!
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by jimsgins »

artooks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:32 am Hi, Did you increase the amount of Juniper ?
I did not. You may find that works but my reckoning was not so much that it the juniper didnt carry so much as that the flavour it did carry was lacking a freshness, like the top note had dissipated. Increasing the ratio may help and if its helped others that's great but for me I'm just ordering in some fresh.

It was stored in an airtight jar, if still_stirrin thinks airtight in the freezer will help then that is definitely worth a shot.
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by Rrmuf »

jimsgins wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:07 pm
artooks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:32 am Hi, Did you increase the amount of Juniper ?
I did not. You may find that works but my reckoning was not so much that it the juniper didnt carry so much as that the flavour it did carry was lacking a freshness, like the top note had dissipated. Increasing the ratio may help and if its helped others that's great but for me I'm just ordering in some fresh.

It was stored in an airtight jar, if still_stirrin thinks airtight in the freezer will help then that is definitely worth a shot.
I'm on it! I have some in the freezer for a few weeks now. It will take a few months before I need to go there, but I will report back here when I have any findings. For now, I think we can take SSes advice as THE word.
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Re: Stored Juniper for a long time

Post by Rrmuf »

On this point, the frozen berries after a few months were definitely still great... better than the dried berries I would say. I did not experience the mushy berries that SS suggested might happen. I think I learned that if I had to use the dried berries, I would multiple the amount by 1.25 to 1.5 that of the frozen fresh berries. ..... I should have picked more in October. :| Next year!
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