Black Peppercorn in Gin

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kornflake
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Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by kornflake »

I can't seem to find the information that I'm looking for. I'm planning on making a Juniper forward gin and I'm thinking about adding Black Peppercorn to the ingredients list but can't find any information on the taste profile it imparts.

I've had Absolut Pepper before but that always went in a Bloody Mary. So that's really no help.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by CopperFiend »

I've tried macerating some black pepper into my gin, unfortunately I didnt manage to get much of the classic peppery taste to carry over past the re-distillation. Maybe someone else has had more luck.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by peach travis »

I got quite a nice black peppery taste from cubeb berries in a recent gin. I’ve never done it with peppercorns so can’t compare but that might be what you’re after? They smelled lovely.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by The Baker »

CopperFiend wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:26 pm I've tried macerating some black pepper into my gin, unfortunately I didnt manage to get much of the classic peppery taste to carry over past the re-distillation. Maybe someone else has had more luck.
Try adding it after distillation??

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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

peach travis wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:15 am I got quite a nice black peppery taste from cubeb berries in a recent gin.
Cubeb Berrys can be one of the more difficult botanicals to find ..along with Grains of Paradise.
Both can be found in AU by searching for "Herbie's Spices" on line.....They are great to deal with, Ive bought from them many times.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by HiroP »

I have put crushed black pepper corn in Odins gin recipe - about 8 corns in 4 l of wash (24 hour soak and distilled with botanicals still in the boiler). The pepper taste was noticable and not unpleasant, 4 corns for 4 l wash would have been better. After aging 6 months (a 250 ml sample stuck/hidden in the back of the cupboard - the rest having been long since drunk) the taste mellows out nicely - just a echo of pepper in the finish. I usually now put 2 or 3 peppercorns in my gin bill for most runs.

Cheers
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by HiroP »

P S
The peppercorns I used were from Vietnam and quite 'floral/flowery' in aroma. A very nice pepper if you can get it.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by tchib »

I want from 4 whole corns to 2g split, to 5g milled trying to get that pepper to come out. Turns out it was there all along in a flowery aroma. Black pepper comes through less like the spice and more like the flower. Ironically, you get the pepper sensation from a completely different botanical, cubeb. And probably some others, does anyone know any more? Maybe red pepper or long grain pepper?
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dont know about the others , Ive always used Cubeb Berrys in Gin.
It seems to be widely used in commercial Gin production, guessing there is good reason for that as its not as cheap as normal pepper by any stretch of the imagination.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 am Dont know about the others , Ive always used Cubeb Berrys in Gin.
It seems to be widely used in commercial Gin production, guessing there is good reason for that as its not as cheap as normal pepper by any stretch of the imagination.
.... Maybe that's where I go next: Do you just macerate it per OEG?
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by LWTCS »

Fresh ground peppercorns with a slice of cucumber is an excellent garnish that pairs very well with (up) gin cocktails.

Not sure how well it will influence through infusion but sounds like a worthy experiment.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Rrmuf wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:24 am Do you just macerate it
Yes crush/ grind and macerate 24 hours.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Rrmuf »

Great! Thanks!
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Chucker »

I’m not going to try it as I’m really not a gin fan but I wonder how a little bit of sezchuan peppercorn would do? To me it has a very juniper like taste and seems to lend a bit of body to its seasoning in cooking.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by NZChris »

I use black peppercorns in my Old Tom Gin. You can use quite a lot without wrecking your Old Tom Gin, as I found out when I accidentally used 20g/l and it made a fine gin. I macerate overnight.

For some gin styles, 5g/l of the base spirit might not be too much, but try that in a small still before doing a large run.

For Sichuan, (Szechuan), pepper gin I replace half of the coriander with the pepper.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Rrmuf »

NZChris wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:45 am I use black peppercorns in my Old Tom Gin. You can use quite a lot without wrecking your Old Tom Gin, as I found out when I accidentally used 20g/l and it made a fine gin. I macerate overnight.

For some gin styles, 5g/l of the base spirit might not be too much, but try that in a small still before doing a large run.
Good to know, and very timely as I think I will make another run at my Old Tom Gin. The sample run we discussed some time ago was very well received! Thanks Chris.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Rrmuf »

..... Culeb Berries are in. 😊👍
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by RocketSurgeon »

Can you please explain the maceration process? Thanks.
Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by NZChris »

RocketSurgeon wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:59 pm Can you please explain the maceration process? Thanks.
Bash the botanicals with a mortar and pestle, or whizz them in a blender, or leave them whole, or a combination of all three, then steep them in the alcohol at the proof you have decided on for anything from a few minutes to several weeks, then strain them out, or put them in the boiler or gin basket, or both, adjust the abv to what you have decided to run it at and turn the heat on.

I don't have any best answers as everything I have done works. Any combinations, and other poster's protocols, are unlikely to make bad gin unless there is a badly mismatched ingredient or base spirit.

My first ever gin macerated while I set the still up, my longest maceration was 36 hours because of a family emergency. They were both excellent gins. I've never macerated for weeks and don't have a reason to try that. You might have a hard time finding a commercial gin distiller that macerates for weeks.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:41 pm I've never macerated for weeks and don't have a reason to try that. You might have a hard time finding a commercial gin distiller that macerates for weeks.
Agree, 24 hours is oodles of time in my opinion.......cant see any reason for longer maceration times.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by NZChris »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:17 pm Agree, 24 hours is oodles of time in my opinion.......cant see any reason for longer maceration times.
Long maceration times might start pulling out flavors you don't want, just like steeping coffee for too long.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

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NZChris wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:45 am I use black peppercorns in my Old Tom Gin. You can use quite a lot without wrecking your Old Tom Gin, as I found out when I accidentally used 20g/l and it made a fine gin. I macerate overnight.

For some gin styles, 5g/l of the base spirit might not be too much, but try that in a small still before doing a large run.

For Sichuan, (Szechuan), pepper gin I replace half of the coriander with the pepper.
I have a 10l batch of base spirit, will try 25g of the culeb berries.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The recipe I use , uses 2g of cubeb berries to a 2Litre boiler charge of neutral, or in other words 1 gram to the Liter, not saying that is right or wrong. Just throwing it into the mix to give you some ideas of the quantities that some use.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Rrmuf »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:17 pm The recipe I use , uses 2g of cubeb berries to a 2Litre boiler charge of neutral, or in other words 1 gram to the Liter, not saying that is right or wrong. Just throwing it into the mix to give you some ideas of the quantities that some use.
:thumbup:

Thanks to all of you for the different success stories. It help give me a range to work with.

Another question on how you typically do your macerations: I have only ever added cool water to cold distillate for maceration. NB the ambient water temps for me are 16C - 18C. Have you guys ever warmed up your distilate for maceration purposes?
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Nope never worried about it. The one thing I might mention is that i have read that grinding botanicals very finely as in putting them in a blender or turning them to powder can make the gin bitter. At one time I tried adding all of the botanicals to a blender and adding a little 40% neutral. Turned it on and made a slurry. I didn't really notice the end product to be any more bitter , but it did louche more than the average gin I make.
Because of the above average louche I went back to simply coarsely smashing up the botanicals with a mortar and pestle.
I will give the slurry version another go one day to see if it happens again and if its any more bitter.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:37 am Nope never worried about it. The one thing I might mention is that i have read that grinding botanicals very finely as in putting them in a blender or turning them to powder can make the gin bitter. At one time I tried adding all of the botanicals to a blender and adding a little 40% neutral. Turned it on and made a slurry. I didn't really notice the end product to be any more bitter , but it did louche more than the average gin I make.
Because of the above average louche I went back to simply coarsely smashing up the botanicals with a mortar and pestle.
I will give the slurry version another go one day to see if it happens again and if its any more bitter.
OK. I just coarsely beat it but do let us know what you determine.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Rrmuf »

BTW: I just tasted my Gin with the culeb berries and it really added a nice finish. I opted for 2.5g/l moderately crushed distilled after about 18 hours of maceration at 43%.

It is very nice. Thanks for the guidance on it.
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by Wozza »

HiroP wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:24 am I have put crushed black pepper corn in Odins gin recipe - about 8 corns in 4 l of wash (24 hour soak and distilled with botanicals still in the boiler). The pepper taste was noticable and not unpleasant, 4 corns for 4 l wash would have been better.
tchib wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:11 am I want from 4 whole corns to 2g split, to 5g milled trying to get that pepper to come out. ?
NZChris wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:45 am I use black peppercorns in my Old Tom Gin. You can use quite a lot without wrecking your Old Tom Gin, as I found out when I accidentally used 20g/l and it made a fine gin. I macerate overnight.
For some gin styles, 5g/l of the base spirit might not be too much, but try that in a small still before doing a large run.
I just did a pepper gin trial in my micro still. I normally use close to double Odin's recommendations for botanicals but I thought I'd cut back to see how the pepper impacted the flavour. There seems quite a variety regarding the amount of pepper (see above). For a 2.0L batch, it seems we've gone from 4 corns, with 2 recommended, up to 40g with 10g recommended. That's an incredible range because 10g of peppercorns would be about 400-500 corns (I'll actually measure that tomorrow).

So anyway, let's go low to start and I just put 10 corns with 15g of juniper, 5g of coriander and 15g of orange peel all straight into the boiler with 2.0L of 35% neutral. I had dried out the peel in a very low oven because last time I did a gin on the stove top with all the botanicals in the boiler it was a little cloudy. I thought it might have been the oils in the citrus. The pepper, juniper and coriander were all lightly crushed.

I collected 900ml at about 60%. Apart from the first 10-20ml it was perfectly clear as collected and likewise when cut to 43%.

Trying it as I write this. And it seems that I've just made a lightly flavoured gin with no pepper noticeable at all. None whatsoever.

Right...I'm in bloody lock down at the moment so I've got plenty of time and I've got a few more litres of decent neutral, so lets go the nuclear option and I'll try another run tomorrow with 40g pepper for the 2.0L and the same amount of the other botanicals.

Stay tuned...
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by NZChris »

Like I suggested earlier, you can get away with using large amounts of black pepper for certain types of gin

I don't use any in the majority of my gins and that seems to be about the right amount.

Weight is surely a better measure than the number of corns?
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Re: Black Peppercorn in Gin

Post by The Baker »

NZChris wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:51 pm Like I suggested earlier, you can get away with using large amounts of black pepper for certain types of gin

I don't use any in the majority of my gins and that seems to be about the right amount.

Weight is surely a better measure than the number of corns?
I have an idea that peppercorns are remarkably consistent in their weight.
So much so that the weight of a number of peppercorns was an
accepted commercial measure somewhere in the distant past.

I think.

And IF this is so either weight or number would be an acceptable consistent measure.

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