Gin development help

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Sporacle
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Gin development help

Post by Sporacle »

I have purchased a number of Australian native Herbs and fruits to try a gin with
I have got some freeze dried Quandong, Whole mountain pepperberry, dried lemon myrtle and Kakadu plum powder.
My original plan was to follow Odin's base recipe for Juniper and then substitute my natives in for the other ingredients at about 2g per litre of 43% spirit.
Would this plan work better one neutral batch with Juniper only and one batch of neutral with my natives only, macerate and distill separately and rest for the 5 weeks then blend the two from that point allowing me to control the amount of juniper flavour as I really want the natives to be noticeable. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated :D
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Re: Gin development help

Post by seamusm53 »

You may (or may not) find someone who has specific experience to answer your question. But I really like your plan to see how local ingredients compare to more traditional ones. You will likely create your own unique signature liquor and who knows could become rich and famous when you sell the recipe for Sporacle's Aussie Potion #9 Gin. (I am offering the name free of charge or need for attribution) I like your plan to try to control the balance between Juniper and your local ingredients but there are still a lot of variables as to how much of each of your local 'essences' to use. I guess I will fall back on a frequent answer and applaud you for your experimental daring while asking you to let us know how things work out.
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Re: Gin development help

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Thanks mate, I think every second place here does a native gin variant, not to sure if any use Kakadu Plum, if they did it would be a very expensive gin. Will post a couple of pics as it progresses.
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Re: Gin development help

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Use a small still to make essences, then blend to make something you like.
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:53 pm Use a small still to make essences, then blend to make something you like.
Thanks Chris, unfortunately I only have the one still at the moment :D
So I will just have to be really careful with my blending and tasting, planning on doing very small test samples until I get a product I'm happy with
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Re: Gin development help

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I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
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Re: Gin development help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Have you ever eaten Quongdong ? , its super tarty in flavour, the nearest I can get to it in description is kind of like rhubarb, even that is not a great description.
I grew up being able to pick them fresh from trees and my Mother baked pies with them. Quandong are native the same dry country as Saltbush :ewink: . They can be an "acquired taste" for some people. My gut feeling is that you would want to go easy on the Quandong as it could easily overpower some of the other botanicals. I know of at least one Aussie Distillery that was /does make a Quandong Liqueur....that was the Black Gate Distillery. I'm told the dried version of those fruit sell for a small fortune to the yuppie restaurants in the big cities.
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Re: Gin development help

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm Have you ever eaten Quongdong ? , its super tarty in flavour, the nearest I can get to it in description is kind of like rhubarb, even that is not a great description.
I grew up being able to pick them fresh from trees and my Mother baked pies with them. Quandong are native the same dry country as Saltbush :ewink: . They can be an "acquired taste" for some people. My gut feeling is that you would want to go easy on the Quandong as it could easily overpower some of the other botanicals. I know of at least one Aussie Distillery that was /does make a Quandong Liqueur....that was the Black Gate Distillery. I'm told the dried version of those fruit sell for a small fortune to the yuppie restaurants in the big cities.
My Gran used to make Quandong Jam and I really liked the taste Rhubarb is a good description but with it being drier, as you said hard to describe, used to have a fair bit of Saltbush Lamb as well from the property. Saltbush lamb shoulder with a quandong jam would probably go alright thinking about it now :D . I've got a little test maceration going now with equal parts of all the natives, I might do another without the quandong just to double check the profile
Thanks Salty
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
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Re: Gin development help

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Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:08 am Saltbush Lamb as well from the property.
If your talking Saltbush Mutton we are talking the same language ? Grew up in similar country. :thumbup:
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Re: Gin development help

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:28 am
Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:08 am Saltbush Lamb as well from the property.
If your talking Saltbush Mutton we are talking the same language ? Grew up in similar country. :thumbup:
Yep, First cross Merino / Border Leicster never got the lamb thing :D
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Re: Gin development help

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Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:09 am
NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm
Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:09 am
NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
Thanks Chris, already started had a rummage through the shed, amazing what you can find :wink:
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm
Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:09 am
NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
+1. I make some dough that's about the same consistency as pizza dough and roll that by hand to something around pencil thin. Then that sits in the rolled edge of the saucepan lid and I clamp the lid down with a dozen spring clips. Just takes a few minutes to clean off.
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Re: Gin development help

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Wozza wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:43 pm
NZChris wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm
Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:09 am
NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm I built my mini gin still using a saucepan and steamer I found in a charity shop and copper bits found at a scrappy. It is the cheapest still I ever built and is my most often used still. It has made fantastic products, many of them experimental using local, in season. produce.
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
+1. I make some dough that's about the same consistency as pizza dough and roll that by hand to something around pencil thin. Then that sits in the rolled edge of the saucepan lid and I clamp the lid down with a dozen spring clips. Just takes a few minutes to clean off.
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Re: Gin development help

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Wozza wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:44 pm
Wozza wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:43 pm
NZChris wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm
Sporacle wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:09 am
Got me a new project, thanks heaps :D
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
+1. I make some dough that's about the same consistency as pizza dough and roll that by hand to something around pencil thin. Then that sits in the rolled edge of the saucepan lid and I clamp the lid down with a dozen spring clips. Just takes a few minutes to clean off.
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm
Try to find one that has a lid that forms a trough that can be easily sealed with flour paste.
+1. I make some dough that's about the same consistency as pizza dough and roll that by hand to something around pencil thin. Then that sits in the rolled edge of the saucepan lid and I clamp the lid down with a dozen spring clips. Just takes a few minutes to clean off.

And I've been experimenting with some additions to my OEG. But I add them to the finished product. Strawberries, blackberries, blueberries and rhubarb so far. Just throw some into a 300ml bottle with the gin and leave for a week. Don't peel the rhubarb and you get a nice pink hue. Pommegranite and maybe pepper might be next.

I was looking for specifically Australian berries to use like pepperberries. But Christ, they're all expensive online. And here's a site that has 82 different flavours of gin: https://www.delish.com/uk/cocktails-dri ... oured-gin/. I think some are talking the piss (Jaffa cake?) but plenty of ideas there.
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Re: Gin development help

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Wozza, the spices ended up being close to a dollar a gram, especially the Kakadu Plum. I've taken Chris's advice and am nearly finished my mini still, just got to troll the charity shops for a suitable pot. All up the still should cost under 10 dollars. Really aimed to use scrap that I had laying around.
The plan now is to do 4 distillations of the herbs separately probably at 4 grams per litre and do 1 litre lots, so 4 litres in total and do around 4 litres in my bigger pot of the Juniper at 12 grams per litre. Then do a blend of the 5 spirits :D
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Re: Gin development help

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I do a gin run with all of my standard botanicals that will be used but using higher than normal weights, at least double, up to five times, then I only have to play with amount of essence to add and the amount of flavor dilution needed with a high quality neutral that I prepared earlier.
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Re: Gin development help

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NZChris wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:09 pm I do a gin run with all of my standard botanicals that will be used but using higher than normal weights, at least double, up to five times, then I only have to play with amount of essence to add and the amount of flavor dilution needed with a high quality neutral that I prepared earlier.
The original plan was the natives at 2%, I then went to 4% and separate distillations for each, Salty really made rethink the Quandong thing :thumbup: and now on your advice I think I'll go at 10% (juniper at 12 though) that will ensure I use all my ingredients and can blend the separate distillations how I see fit.
Thanks for your help everyone much appreciated
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Re: Gin development help

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Sporacle wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 pm Wozza, the spices ended up being close to a dollar a gram, especially the Kakadu Plum. I've taken Chris's advice and am nearly finished my mini still, just got to troll the charity shops for a suitable pot. All up the still should cost under 10 dollars. Really aimed to use scrap that I had laying around.
The plan now is to do 4 distillations of the herbs separately probably at 4 grams per litre and do 1 litre lots, so 4 litres in total and do around 4 litres in my bigger pot of the Juniper at 12 grams per litre. Then do a blend of the 5 spirits :D
I just used the largest pot I had in the kitchen and put a screwed connection in the lid. I still use the pot for cooking pasta. The 6mm copper coil (in a $2 plastic bucket) screws onto that. The only hassle is that I need to scoop out some water from the bucket and top it up with cold a few times. I should get around to putting a small drain on it.

If I can get some more juniper berries tomorrow then I might try it out with a mini gin with added peppercorns. But cut back on the citrus. Made some ouzo in it last time out and it turned out pretty good. Not that I'm an expert on the stuff...
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Re: Gin development help

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1_20210730_150419_compress31.jpg
Update on the Gin progression, I've finished my mini still (excuse the state of it, needs to be cleaned up an apparently I've forgotten how to solder :crazy: ) it's about 750ml capacity and cost about 3 dollars in materials I had to buy, plus the scrap copper I had in my shed. Tried to make it using no fittings. Vinegar and spirit done, now off to infuse my botanicals in 500ml lots. See you in a couple of weeks :D
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Re: Gin development help

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OMFG …. Thats the cutest little still I ever seen .

Reminds me of balancing a coffee pot on a camping stove .

Love that shit . :ebiggrin:
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Re: Gin development help

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Sporacle, do you plan on using the still for making gin or for experimenting to find the recipe you are most interested in. .75 ml for me would be a lot of work producing any quantity but as Yummyrum said it is really a cute set up and would be a great display model when not using it as a lab still.
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Re: Gin development help

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Bushy, its more for lab stuff as I'm using some pretty different botanicals and spices, basically following NZ Chris's advice and making a fairly strong bunch of essences then blend and dilute till I figure out the ratios then scale up. Did think it might impress my wife with fresh espresso vodka infusions for cocktails though :D
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Re: Gin development help

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Nice little still, should do the job well.

I tried running 1500ml charges on the same type of burner and had trouble keeping the flame low enough without the slightest breeze blowing it out. I've taken to running all my small stills on SCR controlled hot plates except when off grid.
Bushman wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:56 am Sporacle, do you plan on using the still for making gin or for experimenting to find the recipe you are most interested in. .75 ml for me would be a lot of work producing any quantity but as Yummyrum said it is really a cute set up and would be a great display model when not using it as a lab still.
A 500ml 43% charge at 5* the botanical bill would make me around 2l of finished gin once diluted with neutral. I enjoy distilling and playing with recipes, so I'd much rather do 10 small runs of a variety of seasonal gins than load up my main pot and make a years worth.
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Re: Gin development help

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The plan is to modify a hotplate and run it with a scr, can get the flame about perfect with the camp stove except as you said any wind stuffs it, I do have a wind guard in the camper so will probably use that till I get my plate :thumbup: It's funny now I have about 10 different experiments I want to do, makes so much difference when you are only using 500ml of neutral and have a 5 min heat up.
Thanks for your help its been great :D
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Re: Gin development help

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Most solid plates have a built in thermostat to prevent them getting red hot. This isn't a problem unless you get the plate hot enough to trip it's internal thermostat. I avoid solid plates and use the ones with a coil element.
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Re: Gin development help

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Thanks for the info, helpful as usual :thumbup: will keep my eye out for a coil element. Having said that the gas worked OK and I've got the wind guard and I'm pretty stubborn so I might stick with that till it doesn't work. Better to realise and understand the limitations of my equipment before I upgrade :D
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Re: Gin development help

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So I've got the botanicals macerating in my finished nutreul I went for
4 x Juniper so I've scaled back from 48g per litre to a volume of 350ml at 43abv
The natives are at 20g per litre so 5g per 250ml at 43abv
Everything has a wonderful nose and the Native Pepperberry has a wonderful purple colour and nose (this may call for further experimentation)
Everything will macerate for a week and then get strained and distilled in my mini still then blended and diluted with my remaining nutreul
20210810_073804.jpg
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