How to do individual botanical “sample” runs?!

[Saltbush Bill]

I prefer everything in the boiler. One reason is that I think you get more bang for your buck.
More flavour from the same amount of botanicals.
One of the reasons that I see given for putting citrus in a gin basket is because folk feel that the citrus flavour is too strong if in the boiler.
Simple solution to that is to use less citrus in the boiler.
I like what would mostly be termed " traditional Gins"
I find many of the "modern vapour infused gins" wishy washy and not very flavoursome.
We all have different tastes....that is the great thing about this hobby.....make what you and your friends like and use the methods that work best for you.
FWIW.....0.04 of a gram of lime or lemon zest in a 4L macerated boiler charge is quite enough.........pays to buy and own a good set of digital scales for gin making.

[MtRainier]

FWIW.....0.04 of a gram of lime or lemon zest in a 4L macerated boiler charge is quite enough.........pays to buy and own a good set of digital scales for gin making.

SBB, I've been struggling with the amount of peel or zest from citrus in my recipes because I've been trying to peel/zest and dry fruit upon eating so I have ingredients when I go to make the gin. I'd been using Odin's instructions for the peel from a single whole tangerine, but that's considerably more than you say here for 40mg of zest.

In your measurement are you using just the colored part of the zest without the white pith and is it completely dry? That's the only way I can think of 40mg in 4L doing anything.

[OtisT]

FWIW.....0.04 of a gram of lime or lemon zest in a 4L macerated boiler charge is quite enough.........pays to buy and own a good set of digital scales for gin making.

SBB, I've been struggling with the amount of peel or zest from citrus in my recipes because I've been trying to peel/zest and dry fruit upon eating so I have ingredients when I go to make the gin. I'd been using Odin's instructions for the peel from a single whole tangerine, but that's considerably more than you say here for 40mg of zest.

In your measurement are you using just the colored part of the zest without the white pith and is it completely dry? That's the only way I can think of 40mg in 4L doing anything.

.04 does seem really small to me, but different recipes call for different amounts. I’m just guessing he means .4 which would be closer to what the Gin section on HD shows some “standard” (whatever that means) ratios of various botanicals in a gin for 4 liters. When I did that math, the citrus required for a gallon (3.5 liters) was around .5 gram of citrus. I wanted a definite lemon character so I used about 1 gram and noticed the citrus in my product. I say “about, because my scale only works in 1 gram increments, so I loaded it to 1, took a look, loaded it to 2 grams and cut what I had measured there in half. I did use just the outer yellow skin and I put it in the vapor path. Pictures here: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73781

Otis

[Saltbush Bill]

Only the green / yellow straight from the lime or lemon......no pith and not dried.
Otis I do mean 0.04. That is quite a small piece. Its not about being able to taste the citrus , but its contribution to the over all flavour in combination with the other botanicals.
As you say different recipes call for different things, and different people expect different things from a gin.
I only macerated for 24 hours......and if I use more citris than that it becomes to pronounced for what I like.

[MtRainier]

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to take off the white pith lately and that seems to get me much cleaner and less bitter citrus flavor. The pith seems to make it taste more vegetal.

One other thing I've noticed is that the flavor balance changes significantly over the 4-5 week period after distilling that Odin prescribes. I did a few of them in succession without waiting based upon flavor reducing the juniper and citrus each time because they seemed out of balance at first, but I ended up liking the first ones more. The really sharp flavors seem to go away with time and the more earthy flavors come out with time. I've settled on making them taste "too" citrusy and piney right off the spout and trusting that they'll settle in given time.

To bring this somewhat back on topic, wonder what happens in individual "sample" runs with single ingredients over time. I assume something similar where the citrus ones and juniper ones would get less intense, but maybe the herbal ones keep their strength longer.

[Rrmuf]

It is all very interesting. Thanks all for the replies.
I will have to try different strengths but will take the 4-5 week resting period as a necessity.
Cheers,

[howie]

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to take off the white pith lately and that seems to get me much cleaner and less bitter citrus flavor. The pith seems to make it taste more vegetal.

having laboured over many lemons for lemoncello and lemon vodka, i treated myself to a 'corn plane' from the chemist.
it is great at removing the skin off citrus, while leaving most of the bitter pith behind.

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[Saltbush Bill]

They work extremely well for the job Howie.....I use one for the lime peel for my gin.

[NZChris]

I've done runs with citrus sliced in half and placed cut side up in the basket. Very little white is exposed.

It worked well for me.

[dmacnz]

I just tried my first run using dried roses. I went around 3% of the juniper weight for the dried roses. Defiantly added something aroma and flavor. Its only one day after proofing so will wait and see where it goes.
I also went for 3% ruby Grapefruit skin. And its def there! Perhaps a tad too much!! Lets see what time does.

[NZChris]

I've just finished my first freshly picked rose essence. They had been steeping for about three days because I had more important things to do. There was a lot of rose and not much spirit, so I ran with everything in the basket so that it couldn't burn. It's a very nice smelling rose essence, but it is very concentrated and I'm going to have to be very careful when making up blends with it.

[Rrmuf]

I've just finished my first freshly picked rose essence. They had been steeping for about three days because I had more important things to do. There was a lot of rose and not much spirit, so I ran with everything in the basket so that it couldn't burn. It's a very nice smelling rose essence, but it is very concentrated and I'm going to have to be very careful when making up blends with it.

I imagine Lavender needs to be treated very similarly to rose petals?

[iamkeiran]

Ok, so I read this whole thread and I think it almost touches bases on what I am thinking/looking for, so if it does not, please direct me if possible, to some good reading for me.

I have been reading a lot lately about boutique gin places now doing a similar thing that my wine maker friend does when blending his grapes for his wines. He does individual fermentations of grapes and then afterwards, blends in certain proportions the different variety to get his perfect tasting wine.

So that brings me to what i read, about some places starting to do similar. They are distilling individual botanicals and then blending in certain proportions to create their flavours.

My thing is, and I do not think I read it here, is when doing an individual run, how do you know how much botanical to use? This may seem stupid. I have my recipe that I love for gin with overall botanicals, for a 1L gin, it works out 20g juniper, 10 coriander, etc. So If I wanted to created 1L of just juniper, would I used 20g still? If it is not competing with any other botanicals, do I need to adjust? And same for obviously some of the lower botanicals like citrus where it is just a fraction, do I keep the same measurements.

Again, apologies if this is elsewhere, would love to read there also. And if anyone else is doing the same thing as I am considering, I would love to chat and see what you are doing.

Thanks everyone!

[NZChris]

Make essence many times stronger than you would put in a single run run. How much you can get away with, I don't know and it will depend on the botanical. At least 5 times might be enough, but more is better. For the rose petal essence I posted about above, I have no idea what the correct ratio should be, but it has still made a fine essence.

You'd have to be a lot smarter than most of us around here to be able to work out how to blend a gin using using a calculator. I can only suggest making a wild stab in the dark sample, then using your taste buds to adjust subsequent samples until you are happy with it. If you make your essences strong enough, you will need neutral for your blends.

Keep good records of every detail and, some time in the future, you may be able to use a calculator to put a gin together.

For the basic gin you want to add essence to, I suggest you do a run with all of the usual botanicals you intend to include in your usual ratios. This could be single strength, but I wouldn't recommend it. I would start with 5 times your usual botanical bill.