Increasing strength and louche in absinthe

[JJF63]

Until now, I have made two absinthe runs. Following the classic Pontarlier basic recipe.
I had read a lot of posts here, saw many recipes with a lengthy herb list, but decided to start with a simple recipe and get it to the point before embarking on adding more herbs.
So, I'm using just wormwood (good flower tops)+ anise seeds + fennel doux seeds for maceration and distillations, then hyssop +lemon balm + roman wormwood for coloration.

I have to say that I got the chance of getting some wine (or grape) spirit, to which I removed heads (with a slow pot-still run). But now, after some advising from other members here, I decided to make a better rectification and removed tails too before starting the process. You can see the results here : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87230#p7713026

But the first 2 runs I used the wine spirit just with heads removed. The first run got nice but a bit "weak", without much louche.
Then I saw a thread where Wolfgang exlained how to use the feints from a previous run, because that is where accumulates much of the essential oils and aromas coming from the anise and fennel. So, the 2nd run, using the feints from 1st run, got much better.

But then another member, NZChris, told me the feints from an absinthe run are not to be confused with the feints coming from a rectification of a base spirit. So I decided to throw out my previous absinthe tails (I did not really throw out, I recycled it through a rectification and recovering a good part of hearts) and start again from scratch.

But then, reading a bit about the oils in anise and fennel, their main constituent is trans-anethole, which accounts for 80-85% of its whole essential oils, and this oil is usually extracted through steam distillation. That is, a distillation using water as extractive base.
This is probably the idea of running tails in an absinthe run, and saving them, because these oils are mostly extracted at higher temperatures than usual alcohol-water distilling temperatures. The higher concentrations appearing at absinthe run tails are certainly due to the higher temperatures at end of distillation. And this concentration should increase with each successive run.

So, my idea is: instead of waiting to have several runs to have a decent concentration of anise and fennel oils in my tails, to "reinforce" my current absinthe run (and give its strength and louche), why not make a previous steam (pot) distillation of some anise and fennel seeds, and add the resulting oil-water mix to the absinthe distilling batch ?

And, to get all the "juice" from a current batch, always with the same herb bill, at the end of usual distillation (when ABV gets around 30-40%), I would just prolong the distillation (adding more water as necessary) which becomes then a new steam distillation, in order to extract the oils for use into next batch.

My problem here is how to adjust quantities. What percentage anise and fennel weight do I use for the initial steam distillation ?
And do I keep the same weights of those herbs in next absinthe batch ?
All this probably can only be determined by trial and error... But if someone has had experience on this I would be grateful for any input.

[NZChris]

You're probably overcomplicating it. If you're not getting enough flavor or louche, add more herbs to the pot. My very first Absinthe louched very nicely without any of the tricks you are talking about.

[JJF63]

You're probably overcomplicating it. If you're not getting enough flavor or louche, add more herbs to the pot. My very first Absinthe louched very nicely without any of the tricks you are talking about.

More herbs ?... I was already a bit alarmed at the amount of herbs a usual recipe takes: 300g of herbs to 2.25 liters of EtOH 85% just makes a thick mass. Even after diluting to 50% it stays a heavy slurry. Not to say when approaching the end of distillation.
I get the impression there is a lot of herb wasting.

And in your subsequent batches, did you use the previous tails or not ? Any difference ?

[NZChris]

No. I've only kept them after my latest two batches.

[NZChris]

"Slurry"?

[StillerBoy]

I was already a bit alarmed at the amount of herbs a usual recipe takes: 300g of herbs to 2.25 liters of EtOH 85% just makes a thick mass. Even after diluting to 50% it stays a heavy slurry.

I don't do absinthe, but do pastis on a regular base, and I only use about half the amount of herbs you mention for about the same size of batch, and the strength and louche is very good.. and from what I've come to understand absinthe is made very similar to pastis, just the herbs combination are somewhat different..

But I use 95%, then dilute to 35%, then distill to 55%.. also filter out the herbs before distilling it..

Mars

[JJF63]

I don't do absinthe, but do pastis on a regular base, and I only use about half the amount of herbs you mention for about the same size of batch, and the strength and louche is very good.. and from what I've come to understand absinthe is made very similar to pastis, just the herbs combination are somewhat different..

But I use 95%, then dilute to 35%, then distill to 55%.. also filter out the herbs before distilling it..

Yes, pastis is almost the same except for the wormwood.

The amount of herbs are the same as in the old books of Duplais and Fritsch (2,6% of wormwood (in grams relative to the amont of 85% alcohol in ml), 5,3% green anise and 5,3% fennel).

I have seen several recommendations to not macerate in a too high proof, because it may extract unwanted substances. Fritsch even recommends adding half of needed water for distillation at the maceration stage.

Filtering the herbs before distilling is never described. Also, many recipes use star anise which has a lot of anethole, and this is probably the main contributor for the louche and stronger taste. But many people said this herb is more difficult to control and often imparts a too strong taste.
But I probably have to give a try to your method.

The problem may lie also on the cut made at early tails. I used an alcohol with all the original tails (although it seems the % is lower than tails coming from usual low wines rectification). So, I made my cut too early, because I don't like at all the cardboard taste, and in so doing, I cut too the needed amount of anethole.
Raki fabrication explains this issue too. Early tails must be kept, aerated for 1 day, tasted, and then the acceptable parts added to distillate.

[JJF63]

"Slurry"?

Yes, the distilling mash is more akin to a paste than a suspension. I don't have issues with burning, but near the end of distillation I wondered if I'm just heating an almost dry mass.

[StillerBoy]

Yes, the distilling mash is more akin to a paste than a suspension. I don't have issues with burning, but near the end of distillation I wondered if I'm just heating an almost dry mass.

It would seem, from the explanation, you are not diluting it enough or distilling it to low in ABV, as I've never encounter that.. my distillation batches are of 6L distilled in an 8L pot, and went I stop at 55%, there is maybe about 1.5" of liquid in the pot left.. but past the 56 - 55%, the distillate is on the bitter side..

Here the link that I follow mainly from as posted by Angoth, and I done some research a few yrs back, and yeah there are a few different ways and percentage, but in the end, the method I use provide me with a very nice pastis..

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69150

Mars

[JJF63]

It would seem, from the explanation, you are not diluting it enough or distilling it to low in ABV, as I've never encounter that.. my distillation batches are of 6L distilled in an 8L pot, and went I stop at 55%, there is maybe about 1.5" of liquid in the pot left.. but past the 56 - 55%, the distillate is on the bitter side..

Yes, I just diluted to 50%. Batches were almost 4L (including herbs, distilled in a 5L pot.
I followed mainly from as posted by Wolfgang (link below), apparently he has a lot of experience (+40 batches in 2010). It's him who stressed the importance of absinthe tails.
And yes, I ran tails until around 40%.

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=13929

the link that I follow mainly from as posted by Angoth, and I done some research a few yrs back, and yeah there are a few different ways and percentage, but in the end, the method I use provide me with a very nice pastis..

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69150

Thanks ! I had already seen that post, when searching for threads about drinks (not whiskey, vodka, brandy, etc).
But I shall give a try with the method of Kiwi Bruce (below in same thread), it looks more variegated and does not have licorice (do you know this one is estrogenic ?...).

[NZChris]

I’ve never ground anything for Absinthe. Fennel fronds and flowers get chopped with scissors, Licorice root gets crushed to expose the inside.

[StillerBoy]

But I shall give a try with the method of Kiwi Bruce (below in same thread), it looks more variegated and does not have licorice

I had to go back and read the post.. I don't use near as much herbs as he does nor the same conbination.. when I first started, I made about 7 different combinations, and settle on the following.. also being mindful that the favor is a personal thing, and always have a few gal on hand, as aging it a few months or more, seem to improve the lot..

My go to recipe is

Per 1.1L of 95% (note: the reason for the 100ml is for the lost when the herbs are filtered out)
25 gr star anise
20 gr licorice root
10 gr anise seeds
5 gr fennel seeds
5 gr coriander
5 gr caradamon

for color and additional favor after it's distilled (only for 3 days)
10 gr star anise
10 gr anise seeds
10 gr licorice root

Mars

[JJF63]

I had to go back and read the post.. I don't use near as much herbs as he does nor the same conbination.. when I first started, I made about 7 different combinations, and settle on the following.. also being mindful that the favor is a personal thing, and always have a few gal on hand, as aging it a few months or more, seem to improve the lot..

My go to recipe is

Per 1.1L of 95% (note: the reason for the 100ml is for the lost when the herbs are filtered out)
25 gr star anise
20 gr licorice root
10 gr anise seeds
5 gr fennel seeds
5 gr coriander
5 gr caradamon

for color and additional favor after it's distilled (only for 3 days)
10 gr star anise
10 gr anise seeds
10 gr licorice root

Mars

Thanks. I shall try also your recipe.
BTW, do you grind your herbs or not ? Or you moist them in water before maceration ? (this last one I heard it's good to facilitate maceration).

Yes, it looks that some aging is required before consumption. I aged my absinthes for 3 months.

[StillerBoy]

do you grind your herbs or not ? Or you moist them in water before maceration ? (this last one I heard it's good to facilitate maceration).

Yes I grind the herbs some, but not into a powder, just a few seconds in a coffee grinder to break them up so to say.. and then added to the alcohol.. the same process for the favor and color after distilling..

I do lots of herbal tincturing, and I grind the herbs there, so I taken the practice of doing the same for pastis.. helps with the extraction..

Mars