Scotch Recipe

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby NcHooch » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:51 am

Down_Home52 wrote:2-4 years!!!!!! I'm too old....NcHooch you mentioned waiting till the next day to make cuts or to blend? The addition of the 1 teaspoon/qt of peated barley infuses that much flavor....wow. Thanks for the suggestion. Now to find the right supplier for the grain. BTW thanks for the note on the yeast.



Yep, air it out for a day ...the beginners guide to cuts talks about it here : viewtopic.php?f=63&t=13261 (step 4)

Gotta age it if you want good whiskey. :wink:
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:05 pm

When you add the teaspoon of smoked peated barley, the whole kernel or crack it then filter after aging? Ordered some of this today. http://www.brewinternational.com/smoked-malt-peated/
It recommends 10% max in grain bill. That is probably for beer. I guess I will have to try several combinations with a base malt to find out.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:22 pm

Welcome!


If it were me I would start out simple I wouldn't go with an all grain, i would stick to a sweet feed or similar tried and true and go from there.

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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:16 am

Just finished my boil pot with a 5500 watt heat source. Using a large igloo cooler for my mash tun/ fermenter. Did a test run last night with 3 gallons water heated to 160 F. Dumped it inthe cooler and measured heat loss over two hours. Ended up at 143 degrees after about two hours. Thinking about using the cooler for the primary fermenter too and ferment on the grain as Jimbo describes in his tried and true. I have a bazooka filter I could fit in the bottom or just pump it to kettle with transfer pump. A couple of things I have thought about trying is using frozen water in plastic milk jugs for cooling to pitch temps. Also, I use two part pour foam for flotation in boat repairs and was pondering cutting ports in the cooler lid and cooler itself and pouring it full of foam. Heat loss would be cut more than half. Anyway, 2- row barley, peated barley malt and US 05 is on the way so I am looking forward to my first AG.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby tuner » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:20 am

Question on Yeasts:
Bakers vs US-05 vs EC-1118

What are the effects of each yeast on an all grain mash?

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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby cuginosgrizzo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:33 am

tuner wrote:Question on Yeasts:
Bakers vs US-05 vs EC-1118

What are the effects of each yeast on an all grain mash?

Cheers


In my scotch I use US-05.

Bakers ferments at higher temps and gives lots of esters. US-05 is somewhat cleaner and it likes colder temps, EC-1118 is yet cleaner and dry, and it also likes colder temps.

Neither will give you the floral notes that you find in some speyside whiskies.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby tuner » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:41 am

cuginosgrizzo wrote:In my scotch I use US-05.
Bakers ferments at higher temps and gives lots of esters. US-05 is somewhat cleaner and it likes colder temps, EC-1118 is yet cleaner and dry, and it also likes colder temps.
Neither will give you the floral notes that you find in some speyside whiskies.


What a great Website - but at times it's like the "X-files" you have to dig deep to find the answers:
High ester yeast for whiskey
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p7485963
Pure acids and ester production
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67010&hilit=floral+notes
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby tuner » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:09 am

der wo wrote:Good read. :D
You have mentioned all the options you have. Now you have to choose. Look at the large Malt Whisky recipes here, read all the comments and choose. And then soon you will have a first result, which will provoke new questions.

My advice: Don't use the BIAB for mashing, but use it for straining. You need an even temperature and the ability to stir well. Both is more difficult with a BIAB. Never heat the mash, only heat the water.

der wo wrote:Per 10l mash:

- 6.5l water at 60°C in an insulated vessel.
- Switch it off and throw in 2kg(7%abv) - 2.75kg(10%abv) crushed malt.
- Wait and stir occasionally minimum 2 hours.
- Filter and press the mash with a BIAB cloth.
- Now you have probably around 6l filtered mash. You want at the end 10l. So the second water has to be 10 - 6 = 4l. Heat the 4l water up to at least 90°C.
- Switch it off and throw the malt back into the vessel
- Wait and stir occasionally until the temp has dropped to 55°C or lower. You can remove the insulation to speed this up if you want.
- Filter and press it and mix it to the first mash.
- Close it and pitch yeast after temp has dropped enough. I also like to add nutrients.

The first low temp water protects the enzymes. The second high temp water solves all the sugar and starch out of the malt. The enzymes of the first water will convert the starches of the second water during cooling down and fermentation.


Thanks for this "der wo" I did two batches last weekend and a thrid during the week, using your mashing instructions, scaled up to 30L. I now have three 30 litre ( 90 Litres) to distill! They all smell and taste great! Used 50% heavy peated malt and 50% distillers malt.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby NcHooch » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:24 pm

Down_Home52 wrote:When you add the teaspoon of smoked peated barley, the whole kernel or crack it then filter after aging? Ordered some of this today. http://www.brewinternational.com/smoked-malt-peated/
It recommends 10% max in grain bill. That is probably for beer. I guess I will have to try several combinations with a base malt to find out.


the teaspoon you add for aging is NOT crushed .
And you can use 10% in your recipe for the beer .... that's what you're making, right? You just have another step at the end :wink:
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:28 pm

High octane beer.....your comments are much appreciated. The last step is fun especially with a good cigar and some AC/DC music. I will experiment with % peated barley. Tht should add to the fun.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:37 am

der wo you mentioned you like to add nutrients. Care to expand on that? Also, will the AG wash need a lot of attention to pH after fermentation starts like a sugarhead ? I am used to seeing a pH crash in my corn syrup washes and use oyster shells to adjust. Have never had to adjust pH in my fruit brandy washes.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby zapata » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:07 pm

Unfortunately derwo hasn't been around in a while and its our loss. But I can at least amswer the ph question, it should be fine, just like an allgrain beer. Malted barley tends to yield a perfect and stable ph.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:44 pm

Much obliged sir. Winter provides me with a real chance to get busy in "The Lab". I am using spring water in my recipes and it is fairly hard. Limestone water. Sugar based washes tend to drop quickly pH wise.. I am just trying to project what my first AG will need. I have everything here to run a scotch recipe and need to grind the grain.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby zapata » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:04 pm

You can always do a 1 gallon mini mash just as a prrof of concept if you are concerned. Even use it as a yeast starter for the big batch.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:49 am

Noticed Jimbo added 4tsp. gypsum to mash water. I ordered a pound of 5.2. I will monkey with a test run as zapata suggests. I have been waiting 2 years to try my first AG and really want it to be close. As mentiond before pH has not been an issue in my brandies when fruit pulp , hulls etc were present. Usually had good balance.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby zapata » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:46 pm

I used to use 5.2 for all grain beers. Stopped using it out of laziness once, and everything has still been fine since. Probably water dependant.
Btw, I would think limestone spring water would be some of the best on the planet at avoiding ph crashes. Its like you already have the oyster shells in your water. If anything your mash ph might tend to be too high, depending on initial water source ph. Might not hold up to a crashing sugar wash, but in my initial attempts at all grain I would assume the clean lime stone water and the buffering from malts would work perfectly. Test and monitor and be ready to react, sure, but I'd avoid over complicating it initially. Good whiskey has been made with the limestone water of appalachia by generations of people who had no idea what ph meant. Not that they were all noble savages, just pointing out that limestone water in and of itself does not mean you will have to monkey about with ph and buffers at all.
But since this is about scotch style whisky, here is a quote from Whisky on the Rocks: Origins of the 'Water of Life'
The primary source of water is rain, but what happens to rainwater before its arrival at the distillery affects its chemistry and thus the uniqueness of the resulting malt whisky. The rain may end up as a stream or river, in a loch or a reservoir, coming from the rock as deep or shallow boreholes, or as a spring high on a hillside.

If it falls on bare mountains made of crystalline rocks it will flow rapidly downhill as streams. This water has little chance to interact with the underlying rocks and often has a low mineral content. It will be acid and soft.

On the other hand if the strata are more permeable, or have many joints and fractures, the rain will percolate into and through the rock, dissolving it and increasing the water's mineral content. Limestones and sandstones, for example, yield water rich in carbonates or sulphates; such waters will be neutral or slightly alkaline and hard.

'Soft water, through peat, over granite' was the traditional and still oft-quoted view of the best water for distilling. Remarkably, out of the 100 or so single malt whiskies, less than 20 use water that fits this description.

Now I assume all modern commercial distillers monitor and adjust their ph to some extent, but I've never heard of one going to the expense of using commercial buffers rather than simple acids and minerals.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby zapata » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:55 pm

So this spurred me to spend a little more time reading about whisky water. Found these 3 water reports, look at that Bunnahabhain water, pretty hard stuff.
Deanston (Scottish Highlands slightly north of Glasgow)
Water Source: River Teith
Ph 7.1
Total Hardness ( mg CaCO3/ L ) 19.5
Colour (mg/L Pt/Co scale ) 20
Calcium ( mg/L ) 6.18

Bunnahabhain (Islay)
Water source: Margadale underground river
Ph 7.2
Total Hardness 120.7
Colour 50
Calcium 29.5

Tobermory (Isle of Mull)
Water Source: Gearr Abhainn
Ph 6.2
Total Hardness 21.4
Colour 175
Calcium 5.02.

http://www.alcademics.com/2017/01/water ... ries-.html
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:01 pm

Thanks zapata. With a pH stick my water shows around 6.0 The pH crash has been with corn syrup and/or sugar washes. I agree on the history of spirits made with hard water. The area I live in has many different springs with marked attributes. The water I am using has not been tested but I suspect high amounts of calcium and lime based on the deposits across the heating element. It is a year round spring and flow is regulated by the water table in underground karst caverns. I have it plumbed into my house and filtered for organics.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:56 am

Posted up my first AG attempt over on Jimbo's all AG in tried and true. Whew......that is a lot of work. Wish I had bigger cookers and bigger fermenters as the time involved would be about the same. No wonder Scotch whiskey is so pricey!!!!!
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:36 pm

Is there any advantage to saving the trub from the AG ferment to use as nutrients in the next run? I have about a quart jar of goo that looks like a milk shake in the fridge.

PS I don't know whether it is kosher on this site to name a supplier but I just found 55# bags of Bairds 35-45 phenol peated malt on sale for $75 usd per bag. PM me if you want the link or if a moderator reads this let me know if it is OK and I will post.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby bluefish_dist » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:08 pm

Down_Home52 wrote:der wo you mentioned you like to add nutrients. Care to expand on that? Also, will the AG wash need a lot of attention to pH after fermentation starts like a sugarhead ? I am used to seeing a pH crash in my corn syrup washes and use oyster shells to adjust. Have never had to adjust pH in my fruit brandy washes.


The all grain won't crash like sugar heads. I still add a small amount of calcium carbonate, say 1 cup per 82 gallons. Also an equal volume of citric acid. For my water, that gets me right about 5.2-5.4. I will finish at about 4 for a ph. For reference I add about 3x that much for a sugar wash.
I do add nutrient, .15lbs of lallemand GN per 82 gallons. I found that let me finish lower vs not adding it. 1.005 to 1.01 vs .992-.995. I found that nutrients help in all my Ag to get them to finish below 1, even worts I got from Brewers.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:11 pm

Bluefish I am a beginner but will ask this question. Does the fermentation finish up with the lactose-duh-da-dee working the last fermentable sugars after the initial pitch gives up at the lower pH?
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby bluefish_dist » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:49 pm

The original pitch can easily finish if you keep the ph at or above 3.8. The trick I found was to get pitch ph, yeast qty, and nutrient quantity correct. If those are all good, the yeast will easily finish under 1 in a few days. The batch I mashed last Wednesday was ready to run today.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:56 am

Great information Bluefish. Gratitude sir. The Lallemand Distilavite GN looks like it is sold in large quantities during my first search. Good news is it looks like they have offices in Duluth , Georgia which is close to me. I will continue to search for a source to buy it in quantities to match my scale of production. To clarify the amount you indicated using was 3 ounces per gallon of wash or is that (.15) pounds per 82 gallons? I would be excited to get my AG's to finish off below 1.000. My fruit wines do on a regular basis and I enjoy regulating how they finish in order to provide my wife with sweeter wine without adding sugar back after it finishes. I am into muscadine and blueberry wines that we grow ourselves. Fantastic flavors. Looks like I will have enough of each to do a small brandy run with them next year.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby bluefish_dist » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:01 am

That is .15lbs per 82 gallons. I buy the GN 22lbs at a time, they list a 500g package. Might try bsg superfood as well It's similar and you should be able to buy 1 kg. I don't have a good conversion per weight between the two yet. Although it looks like you would use a little bit less of the superfood than the GN.
Doesn't take much to work. I dose at about 20% of what I would dose a sugar wash.
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:59 am

Thank you. You are a scholar and a gentleman!!
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Re: Scotch Recipe

Postby Down_Home52 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:37 pm

50 # 2 row malt and 55# Baird's peated malt arrived today along with US 05....Boogity-Boogity-Boogity!! Gotta get some Distilavite GN now. Bidness will be picking up.
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