Cirmolo Zirben

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Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Thu May 17, 2018 1:12 am

Cirmolo Zirben

Inspired by Der Wo, Bushman, Alchemist75 and Unicum, I am trying to make a tasty drink from pine-cones.
I harvested last month about 20 emerging cones and macerated them in 60 percent ABV alco.
After three weeks, the alcohol is a fantastic pink-red and the smell is gorgeous.

My question : if this is distilled, will the pine taste come over ? Or should the alcohol better be used as is ?

Thanks for any suggestion and thanks still stirrin for directing me to
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=62854

Unicum Link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicum
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby der wo » Thu May 17, 2018 6:25 am

The flavor will come over. If you have the chance to get enough cones, do both, I don't know what you will like more. If not, stay with the undistilled version. Simply because it's the only spirit of this type with such a beautiful color. Other similar spirits like macerated larch or spruce shoots look a bit ugly undistilled.
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby kiwi Bruce » Thu May 17, 2018 7:39 am

A word of caution...what tree do your pine cones belong to? There are several trees in the pine and yew family that are considered toxic, look your cones up on the net and be sure, and be safe.
I'm not insane...I just help out at the assilum when they're low on patients.(1958 Goon Show)
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Thu May 17, 2018 9:37 am

Thanks Kiwi

Yew is extremely poisonous. It contains Ephedrine and the alkaloid taxine wich are deadly, even in small dose. 50 to 100 needles will kill a fat human. Taxine comes over in distillation btw.
Yew is not making cones so no possible confusion there.

Except the Yew, most other conifers are OK.

Note
Even Juniper contains some nasty turpentine’s but they are not related to a bad gin hangover :-)
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Thu May 17, 2018 9:44 am

der wo wrote:The flavor will come over. If you have the chance to get enough cones, do both, I don't know what you will like more. If not, stay with the undistilled version. Simply because it's the only spirit of this type with such a beautiful color. Other similar spirits like macerated larch or spruce shoots look a bit ugly undistilled.


Thanks Der Wo
Undistilled usually is served with added sugar or honey. Zirbenschnaps like.
I would like to avoid that and go for a more eau de vie approach
Any suggestion as to which flavor could be mixed harmoniously with pine tree taste ?

Peace

Note
Yes cones enough
1 pine tree is producing now enough cones to fill a bucket
Problem is getting the sticky resin thing from your hands
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby der wo » Thu May 17, 2018 11:49 am

Yes, without sugar or honey most people wouldn't like it.

But why not macerating in neutral and redistilling?

Anyway, I would use something with fine volatile flavors, apple for example. But probably it does also work with fruits with deeper flavors, because you will have to distill it to a relative high abv or the pine flavor will be musty.
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Thu May 17, 2018 12:07 pm

der wo wrote:Yes, without sugar or honey most people wouldn't like it.

But why not macerating in neutral and redistilling?

Anyway, I would use something with fine volatile flavors, apple for example. But probably it does also work with fruits with deeper flavors, because you will have to distill it to a relative high abv or the pine flavor will be musty.


Dont know about apple. Pine will destroy the flavor I think.
Pear would maybe be better ?

Redistill will loose the subtle color but if pine goes over : maybe combine with Elder or Blackcurrant ???
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby der wo » Fri May 18, 2018 12:10 am

I would rather make an elderberry brandy, a blackcurrant one and a redistilled pine maceration (or vapor infusion).

And perhaps a mixture would be frustrating: Making those brandies is a lot of work (picking) or very expensive. And at the end perhaps the pine flavor overwhelmes it.
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Fri May 18, 2018 12:20 am

der wo wrote:I would rather make an elderberry brandy, a blackcurrant one and a redistilled pine maceration (or vapor infusion).

And perhaps a mixture would be frustrating: Making those brandies is a lot of work (picking) or very expensive. And at the end perhaps the pine flavor overwhelmes it.


Make sense
But maybe its like retzina. The pine is overwhelming the wine taste. Not enhancing the wine, but turning it into something different.

But indeed, I believe elderberry and blackcurrant (and brambles) go together. Pine doesnt blend in.

Difficult.

And thanks for input Dr Wo
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Sat May 19, 2018 10:06 pm

Update : Decided to try zirben + juniper.
Both Conifers.

Need to find a third note, maybe bit fruitier but not in lemon/orange range.

Will keep you updated
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby der wo » Mon May 21, 2018 1:52 am

A third note? For esoteric reasons?

What about raisins or grapes?

Or at the moment perhaps green walnuts? Or elderflower?
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Bushman » Mon May 21, 2018 5:22 am

Most pine cones have edible nuts, the cone itself may have sap. I have a pretty good liqueur recipe made from Italian pine nuts but I think you could substitute other nuts as well.
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Mon May 21, 2018 9:37 am

Bushman wrote:Most pine cones have edible nuts, the cone itself may have sap. I have a pretty good liqueur recipe made from Italian pine nuts but I think you could substitute other nuts as well.


Another drink I never heard of.
Infusing pine nuts.

Will have lots of things to try out during next visit of the alps.

:-)
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Mon May 21, 2018 9:39 am

der wo wrote:A third note? For esoteric reasons?
What about raisins or grapes?
Or at the moment perhaps green walnuts? Or elderflower?


Elderflower will probably disappear but green walnuts sounds just right.
Will harvest in june/july and try an infusion.

Thanks Dr Wo
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Pikey » Mon May 21, 2018 10:32 am

If you're going with green walnuts - it's important that you pick before mid June and I suggest you taste regularly to avoid it getting too strong. :shock:
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Mon May 21, 2018 11:32 pm

Pikey wrote:If you're going with green walnuts - it's important that you pick before mid June and I suggest you taste regularly to avoid it getting too strong. :shock:



Thanks Pikey

But that rule is for which location ? I guess there is a difference between Finland and Spain ?
How thick should the nuts be ? :-)
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby der wo » Tue May 22, 2018 12:57 am

Elderflower is very intense. It simply depends on the amount you use. I have a elderflower sugarhead, I think about to dilute it with neutral. BTW mixing elderflowers with neutral alcohol doesn't work well. It gives strong off-flavors. Perhaps from the stems. I would mazerate them shortly in water (as little water as possible), then take them out and fill up with 95% to the desired strength.

Anyway, you decided for green walnuts. At least if you redistill it or mash and distill it, I would pick them early, because the flavor is fresher. But for a mazeration I am not sure, probably you get a strong sourness and bitterness with too early picked walnuts.
At the moment in my country they are like large olives. Perhaps they would already give a good flavor for a distillation now. Btw, I once will try to vapor infuse the young leaves or the blossoms, it's a similar flavor, perhaps better.
For a mazeration I would wait until they have a diameter of around 3cm and are a bit rounder than at the moment.
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Re: Cirmolo Zirben

Postby Nabatean » Tue May 22, 2018 11:25 pm

der wo wrote:For a mazeration I would wait until they have a diameter of around 3cm and are a bit rounder than at the moment



Great tip, will try.
At the moment I am into tasting of pine/juniper
Trying to fin the right balance.

Will harvest the nuts as soon as they reach 3cm plus.

Thanks Dr Wo
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