Rye Whiskey

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Rye Whiskey

Postby bs5617 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:15 am

Here what I did for 5 gallons: 6 lbs of flaked Rye, 3.5 lbs flaked maized, .5 lbs malted barley (ground), 6 lbs corn sugar, 1 teaspoon gypsum, 1 teaspoon acid blend, Yeast, White oak chips, 4 oz Glycerin. Used 10 gallon stockpot, mixed water, gypsum, acid blend, measure the PH making sure its in range. Cover pot heat to 165F turn off heat add flaked maize, rye. Stir about 5 mins to get it well mixed continue to stir occasionally until it cools to 152F and mix in malted barley, let cool to 149F cover pot and rest for 90 mins stirring occasionally and let cool down to 76F, I rack off into 10 gallon fermentation bucket and add corn sugar mix until sugar is dissolved and add yeast. After I distilled it and cut it to my preferred proof, I add oak chips and removed them the next day and add 4 oz glycerin per 1 gallon (you can add more or less Glycerin to your preferred taste). I thought it turned out ok LOL

Any and all comments to help make a better product are welcome please
Thanks
Last edited by bs5617 on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My 1st George Washington Rye Whiskey

Postby Allmyexsliveinhell » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:22 pm

Was the glycerin for mouth feel or flavor?

Cuz it doesn't have much of a taste ime


Also i would drop that sugar and adjust the ratio to have a bit more barley malt and just do an AG. I do thin mashes as well but I use alot less grain and a higher malt ratio, but these days I feel like if I'm gonna do the work to get a little but of fermentable material I might as well just do a full AG mash and skip the sugar.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby bs5617 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:54 pm

I made 2 batches the same recipe: the 1st no glycerin and the 2nd with glycerin: what I found that the glycerin helped with the aging and made the 2nd batch a lot smoother and a little sweeter. They use Glycerin in Schnapps and different types of food.
Last edited by bs5617 on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My 1st George Washington Rye Whiskey

Postby Fiddleford » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:11 pm

bs5617 wrote:I made 2 batches the same recipe: the 1st no glycerin and the 2nd with glycerin: what I found that the glycerin helped with the aging and made the 2nd batch alot smoother it knocked off some of the burn.


You can skip the glycerine with proper cuts. "Aging" doesn't happen so well with wood chips I find, mainly because it can make a alcoholic oak tea within a week of it sitting. Oak dominoes or blocks work well I find but I'll still make up a quick wine and leave the oak in the wine for a couple weeks so its not overpowering my spirit with the intense oak flavor.
I don't know a whole lot about it I'm just passing on what others told me.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby bs5617 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:40 pm

I fixed my original quote sorry about that: I add oak chips and removed them the next day and add 4 oz glycerin per 1 gallon. Thanks Fiddleford, try it add a 1 oz in a quart (or 2 oz I started with 1 then add the 2nd oz) and see what you think and give me a shout and let me know what you think.
Last edited by bs5617 on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 1st George Washington Rye Whiskey

Postby cranky » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:43 pm

I should probably keep my mouth shut because I really don't care what you call what you make but how is this George Washington Rye? GW's recipe was 65 percent rye, 30 percent corn and 5 percent malted barley, although there is debate about how he did it with so little malt, but I'm pretty sure corn sugar didn't exist back then and that other stuff never got added either.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby bs5617 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:59 pm

cranky wrote:I should probably keep my mouth shut because I really don't care what you call what you make but how is this George Washington Rye? GW's recipe was 65 percent rye, 30 percent corn and 5 percent malted barley, although there is debate about how he did it with so little malt, but I'm pretty sure corn sugar didn't exist back then and that other stuff never got added either.


I agree with you about the debate on how it was made, I have seen both 60% rye,35% corn, 5% malted barley. and I agree all that other stuff didnt exist back then. But this was the recipe and its name I was given and I added the corn sugar and glycerin to it.
Last edited by bs5617 on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My 1st George Washington Rye Whiskey

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 pm

bs5617, this is an open forum, you will get what you get for comments and feedback.
Cranky’s comments are valid. If you put up a recipe with glycerine and sugar and attribute it to the great George Washington, well not everyone will sit quietly.

Better to call it BS Rye Whiskey, especially with all that corn sugar in there!
(Sorry, couldn’t resist)

My point is, don’t get upset and pick a fight with a long time contributing member over nothing.

If you stick around you’ll find that the folks here are very knowledgeable and will indeed help build you up if you don’t piss ‘em off.

Good luck, keep us posted.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby cranky » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:09 pm

bs5617 wrote:But this was the recipe and its name I was given and I added the corn sugar and glycerin to it.

You see, that is the issue. If you go changing someone's recipe it ceases to be their recipe and becomes your recipe instead. If you want to proclaim you have made an historic recipe you have to follow the recipe...not just historic ones but anybody's. If you proclaimed you made Cranky's apple brandy but you dumped a bunch of sugar and other stuff into it I would be less than happy with you, as would most people who take time to develop a recipe.

Now you say
bs5617 wrote:Any and all comments to help make a better product are welcome please

I believe most of the whiskey makers here would tell you if you want to make it a better whiskey don't add sugar, it's as simple as that. In fact many of the hard core whiskey makers will argue that what you made wasn't whiskey at all because you added all that sugar.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby kiwi Bruce » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:45 pm

bs5617 wrote:I made 2 batches the same recipe: the 1st no glycerin and the 2nd with glycerin: what I found that the glycerin helped with the aging and made the 2nd batch a lot smoother and a little sweeter. They use Glycerin in Schnapps and different types of food.

Glycerin is a unique additive, the Russians use a small amount in their commercial vodkas, and they did the research on what it does to spirits...ethanol has two molecular states after distilling, one is "twisted" it's called the "high energy state" and tastes "HOT" there is only about 20% of the new spirit in this state at 65% ABV but it's effect is very pronounced... as the spirit ages (or is diluted) it normalizes to it's low energy state and the taste mellows, but this state frees the hydrogen atom of the ethanol molecule, in what's called the "H2 bridge" to bond with other non-ethanol molecules, however there are substances...glycerin being one...that release the energy from the "twisted" high energy ethanol molecule by bonding to it in it's high energy state, mellowing the spirit out, unnaturally...giving the illusion of aging. There are components in red wine that supposedly can do the same thing...aging whiskey in sherry casks...etc
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby Allmyexsliveinhell » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:25 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:
bs5617 wrote:I made 2 batches the same recipe: the 1st no glycerin and the 2nd with glycerin: what I found that the glycerin helped with the aging and made the 2nd batch a lot smoother and a little sweeter. They use Glycerin in Schnapps and different types of food.

Glycerin is a unique additive, the Russians use a small amount in their commercial vodkas, and they did the research on what it does to spirits...ethanol has two molecular states after distilling, one is "twisted" it's called the "high energy state" and tastes "HOT" there is only about 20% of the new spirit in this state at 65% ABV but it's effect is very pronounced... as the spirit ages (or is diluted) it normalizes to it's low energy state and the taste mellows, but this state frees the hydrogen atom of the ethanol molecule, in what's called the "H2 bridge" to bond with other non-ethanol molecules, however there are substances...glycerin being one...that release the energy from the "twisted" high energy ethanol molecule by bonding to it in it's high energy state, mellowing the spirit out, unnaturally...giving the illusion of aging. There are components in red wine that supposedly can do the same thing...aging whiskey in sherry casks...etc


Interesting. So is it possible that the reason sugarheads have that bite is a large amount of the high energy molecules vs all grain for some reason? The sugar bite definitely reduces with age in my experience.
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby kiwi Bruce » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:34 pm

Allmyexsliveinhell wrote:Interesting. So is it possible that the reason sugarheads have that bite is a large amount of the high energy molecules vs all grain for some reason? The sugar bite definitely reduces with age in my experience.

This is quite possible...In all the years on HD forums I've heard no better explanation. :thumbup:
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby kiwi Bruce » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:35 pm

cranky wrote:I believe most of the whiskey makers here would tell you if you want to make it a better whiskey don't add sugar, it's as simple as that. In fact many of the hard core whiskey makers will argue that what you made wasn't whiskey at all because you added all that sugar.

I''m one of those...
Use your sugar to make a "Shady's Sugar Shine" double distill it and use this neutral to replace the low wines you get out of your AG run, leave the backset in the pot let it go cool off...measure what the ABV of your low wines is and replace the volume you've got with some dilute Shady's Sugar Shine...run it again, you will be very pleasantly surprised. Most of the flavor of your low wines will be in your second run as well. I've done this little "Trick" up to three times...do I call it "whisky"? Only when I take it to gatherings of the inlaws and outlaws...sad to say they couldn't tell good spirit from Boonf@#k's swill!
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby bs5617 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:02 pm

Thank you for all of your time and help I have learned a little bit more. I understand what Cranky and the rest of you was trying to say, I do not want to be a hack, I real do want to learn the correct way to make spirits. So back to the drawling board
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Re: Rye Whiskey

Postby HDNB » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:46 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:
Allmyexsliveinhell wrote:Interesting. So is it possible that the reason sugarheads have that bite is a large amount of the high energy molecules vs all grain for some reason? The sugar bite definitely reduces with age in my experience.

This is quite possible...In all the years on HD forums I've heard no better explanation. :thumbup:

glycerol can be sourced from plant fats, lipids...even though it has a high boiling point we all know some plant fats get through. May have more than a little bit to do with it. got a new google mission!
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