SCD's Crow Bourbon
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- Rumrunner
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
This recipe totally threw me off trying a single run on two bubble plates.
I’ve had great success running several single run batches of honey bear Bourbon through the plates, my best on 2.
My attempt at running this recipe on 2 plates tonight just wasn’t working, but it might be because I don’t know what I’m looking for. Once I got everything stabilized and started pulling product, I couldn’t shake off this bitter flavor coming though, which I normally associate with tails. I tried different reflux ratios, running slow, running fast, but I couldn’t prevent this flavor from coming over. There was also a perfume/concrete like smell coming though too. From previous experience, this wet concrete smell is definitely tails. I don’t get any Smokey smell from the distillate, so I don’t think I scorched it.
I ended up saying screw it and just cranked up the power to strip the whole thing.
This recipe has rye malt in it, which I have lack of experience detecting how it presents itself in a spirit run and where. I’ve ran some stripped/spirit Carolina Bourbon way back on my smaller pot still, with a successful final product, but that’s where my experience ends and I totally don’t remember how the rye showed up in the numbered jars.
Going to strip the rest of my wash after it clears from squeezing the grains and try a simple pot still run of the whole lot of low wines, hoping for better flavor there. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!
I’ve had great success running several single run batches of honey bear Bourbon through the plates, my best on 2.
My attempt at running this recipe on 2 plates tonight just wasn’t working, but it might be because I don’t know what I’m looking for. Once I got everything stabilized and started pulling product, I couldn’t shake off this bitter flavor coming though, which I normally associate with tails. I tried different reflux ratios, running slow, running fast, but I couldn’t prevent this flavor from coming over. There was also a perfume/concrete like smell coming though too. From previous experience, this wet concrete smell is definitely tails. I don’t get any Smokey smell from the distillate, so I don’t think I scorched it.
I ended up saying screw it and just cranked up the power to strip the whole thing.
This recipe has rye malt in it, which I have lack of experience detecting how it presents itself in a spirit run and where. I’ve ran some stripped/spirit Carolina Bourbon way back on my smaller pot still, with a successful final product, but that’s where my experience ends and I totally don’t remember how the rye showed up in the numbered jars.
Going to strip the rest of my wash after it clears from squeezing the grains and try a simple pot still run of the whole lot of low wines, hoping for better flavor there. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
This is a much more grain forward, complex bourbon than honey bear. Honey Bear is forgiving and balanced off the spout, great for first bourbon. When you get lots of different malts like rye, it can be a strong flavor. That is where a year sitting comes into play.
Now, I will tell you that you should always do a strip and spirit, even in a plated column. A one and done will not cut it. A plated column will help, but a strip spirit will segment then better. It will not be the most balanced off the spout, but time and Oak will bring it together beautifully.
Now, I will tell you that you should always do a strip and spirit, even in a plated column. A one and done will not cut it. A plated column will help, but a strip spirit will segment then better. It will not be the most balanced off the spout, but time and Oak will bring it together beautifully.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Thanks for the feedback man! Makes a lot of sense. You thinkin just pot stillin this one will yield better results instead of the plates?
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
That question is only going to bring up my own bias, but yeah, I would recommend a pot still. I've gone back and forth and prefer my pot still.
I find the best whiskey cuts to be akin to a good women - tight and dirty. A little pot smearing with disiplined cuts, and you really can't go wrong.
I find the best whiskey cuts to be akin to a good women - tight and dirty. A little pot smearing with disiplined cuts, and you really can't go wrong.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I really value your experience and by using both tools, you have a truly informed position on the topic. My honey bear on plates is awesome, but I could be missing out on more. I almost feel guilty putting my fancy column off to the side in lieu of a piece of pipe! haha
I'll give the pot still a go! I plan to age on oak stave pieces in jars for at least a year. Thanks again for this recipe!
One a side note, those damn oats sure don't squeeze as easy as traditional grainbills! Thank god for my mop wringer.
I'll give the pot still a go! I plan to age on oak stave pieces in jars for at least a year. Thanks again for this recipe!
One a side note, those damn oats sure don't squeeze as easy as traditional grainbills! Thank god for my mop wringer.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Update:
Doing my spirit run today in pot still mode. A couple observations.
I see now why I was having a hard time with a one and done run with 2 plates and wash. There is a perfume like aroma that comes out of the rye very early in the run, right around the heads to hearts transition. I believe plates concentrate that aroma and bitter flavor and it’s all I can smell and taste, making it very difficult to tune my coolant/power adjustments by my senses.
Like you said SCD, the pot still is a controlled smearing of all the good stuff, which I can see now. I’m currently collecting some extremely tasty hearts. The corn is really shining through and the rye spice is very pleasant. The oats have really taken the edge off as well, adding some smoothness I’m not used to right off the pipe.
Really excited to age this stuff with some barrel stave sticks! I just need to decide what amount of toast/char will bring out the toasted marshmallow flavor described in the recipe. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks again SCD, you da man!
Doing my spirit run today in pot still mode. A couple observations.
I see now why I was having a hard time with a one and done run with 2 plates and wash. There is a perfume like aroma that comes out of the rye very early in the run, right around the heads to hearts transition. I believe plates concentrate that aroma and bitter flavor and it’s all I can smell and taste, making it very difficult to tune my coolant/power adjustments by my senses.
Like you said SCD, the pot still is a controlled smearing of all the good stuff, which I can see now. I’m currently collecting some extremely tasty hearts. The corn is really shining through and the rye spice is very pleasant. The oats have really taken the edge off as well, adding some smoothness I’m not used to right off the pipe.
Really excited to age this stuff with some barrel stave sticks! I just need to decide what amount of toast/char will bring out the toasted marshmallow flavor described in the recipe. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks again SCD, you da man!
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Proofed down my sprit to 60% and added some toasted/charred barrel stave sticks tonight. I went with different toast levels in each of the jars to see how different they might end up down the road, searching for the toasted marshmallow flavor. One was 400deg for 2hrs, the other was 370deg for 2 hours. Same alligator char on all of them.
One observation… I went deeper into the tails than I thought with my final blend. I noticed it after letting the distillate sit til tonight. There’s a slight tinge of dirty socks aroma, but all the sweet, creamy grain flavors were buried down there too when I selected the keeper jars. I’m hoping with some time, the tails-y funk will transform into something nice with the oak interaction. Definitely something I’m not used to since I’ve been using plates for so long.
The flavor itself is complex. I can definitely taste the rye spice, corn and toasted oats. These jars will likely need quite some time to come around, but I’ll be patient. I’ll have plenty of Honey Bear Bourbon to consume before these will be touched.
One observation… I went deeper into the tails than I thought with my final blend. I noticed it after letting the distillate sit til tonight. There’s a slight tinge of dirty socks aroma, but all the sweet, creamy grain flavors were buried down there too when I selected the keeper jars. I’m hoping with some time, the tails-y funk will transform into something nice with the oak interaction. Definitely something I’m not used to since I’ve been using plates for so long.
The flavor itself is complex. I can definitely taste the rye spice, corn and toasted oats. These jars will likely need quite some time to come around, but I’ll be patient. I’ll have plenty of Honey Bear Bourbon to consume before these will be touched.
- Deplorable
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I'm gonna lay a wager that your jar with the 400° toast gives you a tobacco note, and your 370° finger more of the caramel toasted marshmallow you're chasing.BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:00 pm Proofed down my sprit to 60% and added some toasted/charred barrel stave sticks tonight. I went with different toast levels in each of the jars to see how different they might end up down the road, searching for the toasted marshmallow flavor. One was 400deg for 2hrs, the other was 370deg for 2 hours. Same alligator char on all of them.
One observation… I went deeper into the tails than I thought with my final blend. I noticed it after letting the distillate sit til tonight. There’s a slight tinge of dirty socks aroma, but all the sweet, creamy grain flavors were buried down there too when I selected the keeper jars. I’m hoping with some time, the tails-y funk will transform into something nice with the oak interaction. Definitely something I’m not used to since I’ve been using plates for so long.
The flavor itself is complex. I can definitely taste the rye spice, corn and toasted oats. These jars will likely need quite some time to come around, but I’ll be patient. I’ll have plenty of Honey Bear Bourbon to consume before these will be touched.
Good move playing with different toast levels in quart jars. You'll discover more, faster that way.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Yeah I'm curious about that. I have some of the 400deg for 2hr sticks in some HBB jars. They've been in there for about a month and have a pretty rich, dark caramel thing going on with a hint of chocolate. They are in there at a lower proof as a side experiment "54%ABV." Obviously much too early to tell what they'll become, but it's already very nice. Glad I was able to get my hands on so much awesome oak from a buffalo trace barrel. The wood I was using before was complete shit... total tannin bomb that needed tons of time to mellow out.Deplorable wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:27 amI'm gonna lay a wager that your jar with the 400° toast gives you a tobacco note, and your 370° finger more of the caramel toasted marshmallow you're chasing.BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:00 pm Proofed down my sprit to 60% and added some toasted/charred barrel stave sticks tonight. I went with different toast levels in each of the jars to see how different they might end up down the road, searching for the toasted marshmallow flavor. One was 400deg for 2hrs, the other was 370deg for 2 hours. Same alligator char on all of them.
One observation… I went deeper into the tails than I thought with my final blend. I noticed it after letting the distillate sit til tonight. There’s a slight tinge of dirty socks aroma, but all the sweet, creamy grain flavors were buried down there too when I selected the keeper jars. I’m hoping with some time, the tails-y funk will transform into something nice with the oak interaction. Definitely something I’m not used to since I’ve been using plates for so long.
The flavor itself is complex. I can definitely taste the rye spice, corn and toasted oats. These jars will likely need quite some time to come around, but I’ll be patient. I’ll have plenty of Honey Bear Bourbon to consume before these will be touched.
Good move playing with different toast levels in quart jars. You'll discover more, faster that way.
I'm going to try some lighter toasts in other future batches as well and also play with toast times. I want to try 350deg for 2hrs and the 370 for 1.5hrs. At the end, it might be fun to make some sample blends for an even more complex bourbon.
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- Master of Distillation
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Please always specify Fahrenheit or Celsius (centigrade) with your temperatures.
We probably use the different one to you.
Geoff
We probably use the different one to you.
Geoff
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
the "Flaked" I buy is already steam gelled. I believe ALL flaked corn is steam gelled.Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:34 am Flaked will gell faster that cracked but still requires more time at high temperature than meal has been my understanding.
... use flaked and let it cook longer before you let the temp fall and add your malts...
All I need to do is mash it with the malts and it converts fine.
Flaked corn is SOOOO easy.
Just mash in with the malts, strike water around 150F, wrap for 90 minutes and you're good to go!
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
^ive also used flaked corn as mentioned with good success. It has a great flavor in the sprit too. However, using SCD’s large batch technique, you really can’t beat fine corn meal simply for cost and ease of use. For a new distiller wanting to jump into all grain, flaked corn gives results with MUCH less hassle.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Update, well after not even a month in jars with oak, a lot of the roughness to the original spirit is gone, which took me by surprise. The rye flavors have mingled and recombined into something I’m used to tasting in a bourbon. I took a small sip of the lighter toasted jars, and boom, already seeing the toasted marshmallow coming out with the vanilla from the wood. A buddy of mine tasted it too and wanted me to give him some to drink right now, I snatched the jar and said good things come to those who wait! Ha
Again, way too early to make any real judgements on the recipe, but I’m seeing a whisper of what it will become and it’s very exciting. Keeping my paws off this stuff will be very difficult. I need to stuff it in the attic and forget I ever made it! If I’m patient enough, I’ll do a full two years aging.
How is this recipe not a tried and true?! Total winner from everything I’ve heard about it and have tasted myself.
Again, way too early to make any real judgements on the recipe, but I’m seeing a whisper of what it will become and it’s very exciting. Keeping my paws off this stuff will be very difficult. I need to stuff it in the attic and forget I ever made it! If I’m patient enough, I’ll do a full two years aging.
How is this recipe not a tried and true?! Total winner from everything I’ve heard about it and have tasted myself.
- rubberduck71
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Agree! I've also messed around with the ratios to make a high rye version of this, currently on oak. Same problem as you: patience.BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:27 am How is this recipe not a tried and true?! Total winner from everything I’ve heard about it and have tasted myself.
Next time make a sugarhead from spent grains. It will help keep your paws off the aging all-grain. I do that with all the AG recipes I do since reading Jimbo's gumballhead thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39617&hilit=jimbo+wheated+bourbon
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- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I appreciate it Brian and Duck. My own holy trinity, HBB, SCB, and CROW. A good rounds the to keep around, should suit your flavor any night of the week. Thanks for the feedback
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Looks like I gotta make some chocolate sundae bourbon next! Thanks again SCD! Solid recipes.
Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Heya again folks, just checking in about a year or so later to say that... This is one of the best bourbons I've aged to date!!!!
I was incredibly worried I used rancid/over-toasted oats or something during the first 6 months of aging, but it has mellowed beautifully by this time, into the strong rye notes I have seen in such things as Rittenhouse and others. wonderful!
So to anyone else who is getting funky flavors coming off when aging, fret not. Now I know this isn't an actual rye but it's damn close enough for me! This is the perfect rye stand-in for a good sazerac, old-fashioned, or any other whiskey forward cocktail... not to mention great with mixers (always fond of a good rye and coke...)
Consider me a convert! gonna make this a staple recipe in my house...
I was incredibly worried I used rancid/over-toasted oats or something during the first 6 months of aging, but it has mellowed beautifully by this time, into the strong rye notes I have seen in such things as Rittenhouse and others. wonderful!
So to anyone else who is getting funky flavors coming off when aging, fret not. Now I know this isn't an actual rye but it's damn close enough for me! This is the perfect rye stand-in for a good sazerac, old-fashioned, or any other whiskey forward cocktail... not to mention great with mixers (always fond of a good rye and coke...)
Consider me a convert! gonna make this a staple recipe in my house...
We bake the white bread, We bake the brown bread... We bake all sorts.
15gal Keg Boiler / 42" 2.5" column / Combo CCVM Still Head / Propane Fired
15gal Keg Boiler / 42" 2.5" column / Combo CCVM Still Head / Propane Fired
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I'm going to give this a go tomorrow - looking forward to it!
One questions. I have backset from a 10:1 Corn/Oat whiskey I made last, thinking of using that. I'd be around 20% backset if I used it all. Has anyone used a sour mash with this recipe?
One questions. I have backset from a 10:1 Corn/Oat whiskey I made last, thinking of using that. I'd be around 20% backset if I used it all. Has anyone used a sour mash with this recipe?
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Any bourbon can use the sour mash method. Use half, for 10%, and you'll be golden.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Thanks SCD! Hoping this ends up in a Badmo barrel I recently received. Oh and those toasted oats smell heavenly.
- Deplorable
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I think Im going to add another batch of this to next seasons to-do list.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
How is this not a Tried and True yet?!?! How can we make that happen? This is a GREAT recipe.
I’ve been aging mine for some time. At a year it was really good, but I want to see what happens after two. My last little sample was just the other day at almost 1.5yrs. So glad I’ve let it ride. It just keeps getting better and better.
I chose to pull the wood at a year so it wouldn’t over oak. The oak tannin was at the limit for my taste and it had plenty of color. I have them sitting under some cork lids for oxygen transfer.
My biggest regret… I should have made more!
I’ve been aging mine for some time. At a year it was really good, but I want to see what happens after two. My last little sample was just the other day at almost 1.5yrs. So glad I’ve let it ride. It just keeps getting better and better.
I chose to pull the wood at a year so it wouldn’t over oak. The oak tannin was at the limit for my taste and it had plenty of color. I have them sitting under some cork lids for oxygen transfer.
My biggest regret… I should have made more!
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I whole heartedly agree Brian.
I therefore nominate CROW Bourbon as a TRIED and TRUE Recipe.
It's been tried by many on this board with consistent results. It's a fine spirit white, or aged, and needs no adjustments from the original post.
I therefore nominate CROW Bourbon as a TRIED and TRUE Recipe.
It's been tried by many on this board with consistent results. It's a fine spirit white, or aged, and needs no adjustments from the original post.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I second this! Amazing spirit!
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Quick update. I use a 32 gallon Brute to ferment so doing the full 40 gallon recipe in two 20 gallon batches (~10% backset). Mashed in corn & oats yesterday, alpha amylase at 178. This morning it had dropped to 140, mashed in malts & gluco amylase (I'm in the habit of using enzymes regardless). Earlier this afternoon got a temp corrected 1.057 gravity reading at 130 degrees, pulled insulation off the Brute to bring it down to pitching temp, will be using FermPro 921. Smells delicious.
- Deplorable
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I got my hands on another Badmo Barrel, that should be here tomorrow. This is going to be the first ferment of this season to fill that Badmo Legacy Barrel. I've been itching to get a ferment down, so I may just put this one down with *gasp* bakers yeast so I don't have to wait for cooler weather. We'll see.
Still think this should be in the T&T. Just sayin...
Still think this should be in the T&T. Just sayin...
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
"My own holy trinity, HBB, SCB, and CROW."ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:03 pm I appreciate it Brian and Duck. My own holy trinity, HBB, SCB, and CROW. A good rounds the to keep around, should suit your flavor any night of the week. Thanks for the feedback
Same for me (thank you!). The way I see it (though perhaps not correctly):
- wheated / light
- stout
- high or low rye
I vary the recipes keeping percentages approx the same per the original recipe, and change up the malts (vienna, munich, C20-C120, cararye, triticale, brown, extra special, plus a few others). So far, quite a few variations on the original CROW. A lot more on SCB. Been having so much fun with those I haven't been back to turn the knobs on HBB.
Anyway, I gave a thumbs up as a T&T a couple years back - another vote for it.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Well I finally had the chance to do my spirit run on today. Ran the wash back in June and the low wines have been waiting since. Yielded just under 7.5 gallons at 29%.
Charged my 7.75 gallon boiler with 6.5 gallons and had an easy run with a surprise power outage in the middle. Ran it down to 15% off the spout to get that late tails sweet grain goodness for proofing down to barrel strength and the rest for the feints jug. Off the spout, I'd keep jars 6-14 and maybe 16 or 17, proofed down with late tails. Look forward to seeing if that changes after airing for a day or two. Then into a Badmo I've had since May.
Charged my 7.75 gallon boiler with 6.5 gallons and had an easy run with a surprise power outage in the middle. Ran it down to 15% off the spout to get that late tails sweet grain goodness for proofing down to barrel strength and the rest for the feints jug. Off the spout, I'd keep jars 6-14 and maybe 16 or 17, proofed down with late tails. Look forward to seeing if that changes after airing for a day or two. Then into a Badmo I've had since May.
Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
Nice looking run. How big is your fermenter? I'm working on getting my cooker and fermenters bigger to save some time on the front end.
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Re: SCD's Crow Bourbon
I have a 32 gallon Brute, did two 20 gallon batches using the original 40 gallon recipe with the easy large batch mashing method. However, I'm on the lookout for a cheap 40-55 gallon blue barrel - the Brute gets real soft with 180 F mash and I've read here about them failing.