Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:58 pm

If I were a gambling man I would have said that your answer would have been yes big difference. First I would have said yes scorched and 2nd if no scorching sludge would have changed not for the better. I am glad we were not gambling. So why not ferment In your boiler and just fire it up if it is your next run?
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby acfixer69 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:14 pm

Mash then ferment then distill all in the same vessel.... ? whoa big old milk can could be in my future :thumbup: Let's talk some more about this. :)

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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:24 pm

If you have a 4 inch ferule (so you can stir) on the top or bigger and the element don't scorch and it taste the same why not. I have never done an all grain or element but what Jimbo said IMHO is very simple but very very very noteworthy for the future all grainers.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Richard7 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:54 am

Jimbo, I still have not made the step to doing an all grain. I will some day, but just too many irons in the fire right now. I am going to try using the wheat flour in place of the cereal that I use to make a faux wheat whiskey. Since I am just trying this out I my wife got me a couple of five pound bags of unbleached wheat flour.
whole wheat.jpg


I am going to try half a bag (2.5 pounds) in place of a box of shredded wheat cereal just to see if the flavor comes through.
If you don't mind I'll post my results here instead of starting a new thread. This seems to be a good place to talk about using flour.
Thanks for planting this seed in my head. If it works out it will be a lot cheaper than the cereal. :thumbup:
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:04 pm

Sure that'd be fine Richard. Ive got a second batch fermenting up now. Surprising how good the low wines taste. Gonna do 2 more runs, then a spirit run. Cant wait to see how it turns out. its basically as easy as doing a sugarhead, but its an all grain, converted, maltose wash. Another bonus is flour is even cheaper than sugar.

You shoudl try an AG with it. When the goo hits 150 stir in some malted barley. done. Its really not hard to do AG's at all. I wish there were more AG brewers around here.

Im curious how whole wheat would compare. It basically is the same but with the germ left in. but the germ is mostly protein and oil. So not sure what benefit it would add.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Dan P. » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:26 am

Jimbo, if you have never done a DWWG, wheat germ definitely has a taste, a taste which, in my opinion, is worth avoiding. Some people like it. I did a dextrose wash with whole wheat flour and it definitely had the DWWG taste. Not horrible, but not for me.

Edit; I don't think it was the whole flour that gave this wash the wheat germ taste, but some wheat germ-y adjuncts (cereal) that I had forgotten about.
Last edited by Dan P. on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby midwest shinner » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:23 pm

Man Jimbo i am still so amazed at how well this experiment worked out for ya. If it had been me trying something similar i am sure it would have been a massive failure as that is my luck. I will have to give this a try when i eventually get myself converted to electric, but i would probably go for the whole wheat flour as i would imagine it would have more of a wheaty taste, which i love in a whiskey. Thanks for the knowledge you always share with us, i learn something probably every time i talk to ya.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:37 pm

Yes it was easy. Bone simple.

As far as whole wheat being more wheaty did you see Dans comment, or my comments on flavor for that matter? The only thing missing from enriched flour is the germ. The germ is mostly oils and such. Dan didnt care for it in his experiments. And this stuff I whipped up tastes great ( so far, low wines).

I noted when mixing another batch up this weekend with 12g boiling water on 25 lb flour, it almost immediately gets too thick to stir. Had a hard time mixing in all the flour. With the high temp enzymes tho, I added them right away and it immediately thins out to a thin slurry. If youre using malt, and need to wait till the temp drops to 150, you might want to go with 13g water (like I did on batch 1) or even 14g.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby midwest shinner » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:14 pm

I did see the comments about the whole wheat vs regular flour, but i personally like the flavor of wheat germ, i did a batch of dwwg recently and the low wines taste great imho. but i do think after the spirit run mellows the flavor a bit it will be even better. The oils I'm sure hold a bunch of flavor, probably similar to the rum oils in a rum. Anyway if i ever give it a go i would likely try out both types of flour just to see for myself.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:15 pm

I have never done an all grain. I will. My best tastn shine that i made when i was makin was DWWG. I liked it better than UJSM. In my opinion it worked better for me because I never got anything to have time with oak. I put it on oak and then i took it off and threw it down my pie hole. I liked both better with a little back set in them around 20%. I even liked DWWG before I ran it. With no oak I like the wheat taste better than I do corn taste. I think both UJSM and DWWG would be good on oak. I think the flour would be better than either and all grain even better. That being said I gotta read everything Jimbo puts on here cause he is wheat man and his pen seems to have magic in it.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:19 pm

halfbaked wrote: I never got anything to have time with oak. I put it on oak and then i took it off and threw it down my pie hole.


This made me laugh outloud. Did you give it at least 17 minutes on the oak baked? :ebiggrin:
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby midwest shinner » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:31 pm

Nah halfbaked, his pen doesn't have any magic. He just has the experience and knowledge and knows how to word things.Although, I'm sure if he ever got the urge he would make a great writer or something as well. And i do agree All grain batches seem to always be my favorite, although the yield isn't always quite as good as sugarheads, but the quality makes up for that, imho.Its like anything else, preference definitely comes into play
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:58 pm

Jimbo wrote:
halfbaked wrote: I never got anything to have time with oak. I put it on oak and then i took it off and threw it down my pie hole.


This made me laugh outloud. Did you give it at least 17 minutes on the oak baked? :ebiggrin:


What the long timers don't see or remember is when you made your first run. Im glad you didn't have a sip of likkker in your mouth and try to hold it in. It burns like a SOB when it comes out your nose. I was like a baby sucking on a bottle when the love started out the spout. Wish you would have been there.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:42 pm

halfbaked wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
halfbaked wrote: I never got anything to have time with oak. I put it on oak and then i took it off and threw it down my pie hole.


This made me laugh outloud. Did you give it at least 17 minutes on the oak baked? :ebiggrin:


What the long timers don't see or remember is when you made your first run. Im glad you didn't have a sip of likkker in your mouth and try to hold it in. It burns like a SOB when it comes out your nose. I was like a baby sucking on a bottle when the love started out the spout. Wish you would have been there.


hahahaha! you have a way with words baked.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Dan P. » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:39 pm

midwest shinner wrote:I did see the comments about the whole wheat vs regular flour, but i personally like the flavor of wheat germ, i did a batch of dwwg recently and the low wines taste great imho. but i do think after the spirit run mellows the flavor a bit it will be even better. The oils I'm sure hold a bunch of flavor, probably similar to the rum oils in a rum. Anyway if i ever give it a go i would likely try out both types of flour just to see for myself.


If I can edit my last post I will, but thinking back I think I added something to that wash other than the whole wheat flour that probably gave it the strong wheat germ taste (weetabix, a breakfast cereal).
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:36 am

Im on bag 2 of this now. After I run and strip 4 bags Ill do a spirit run and report back on flavors. This is so easy Im gonna be really happy if it makes a tasty whiskey. But Im half expecting it to be a little thin and lackluster, but who knows. Like I said below, so far the low wines are very wheaty. Worst case Ill make a GNS out of it for panty droppers :)
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:45 am

Jimbo my all wheats came out more like a nice heavy wheaty vodka. Really to much flavor for a vodka. But not quite enough for a whiskey. I really liked it white. And I didn't get enough to put any on oak. So I left it white. But I think with some time on oak. It would have been really nice.

I mite have to give your flour recipe a go. Using my own malted wheat.

Speaking of which. Since you are not using malt. Your flavors mite be even lighter. I would be curious as to the difference in using enzymes compared to malt.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:53 am

Prairiepiss wrote:Jimbo my all wheats came out more like a nice heavy wheaty vodka. Really to much flavor for a vodka. But not quite enough for a whiskey. I really liked it white. And I didn't get enough to put any on oak. So I left it white. But I think with some time on oak. It would have been really nice.

I mite have to give your flour recipe a go. Using my own malted wheat.

Speaking of which. Since you are not using malt. Your flavors mite be even lighter. I would be curious as to the difference in using enzymes compared to malt.


Im keeping this one 100% flour to see how it turns out. A wheaty vodka would be ok. Ill compare it to 100% wheat malt, which I have on hand. That ones over a year old and real nice, gonna be hard to beat I think. I noticed in other posts youre a wheat fan too. Good stuff isint it. My wheat single malt is hard to beat. Lots of folks pick it as their favorite of my hooches.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:00 am

I haven't tried a single malt yet. Mainly because I have never been a big fan of it. But its on the list to try. What kind of wheat malt do you use for the single malt? Right now I have about 20 lbs of wheat malt in the grain bin. 10 lbs of white. And 10 lbs of red. And soon I will have my malt production up and running. So I will have plenty.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:23 am

have you ever tried a single malt made with 100% percent wheat? It's a different beast from barley malt single malt.

I buy the Dingemans Belgian wheat 25kg/bag. I like it better than the Briess and its not that much more expensive. but you've got me very interested in malting my own I'm following your malting posts closely at 12 bucks a bag for red wheat :ebiggrin:
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:35 am

I've almost got the new thread together. About my new malting setup. I just need a few more pics. And I will be posting it soon. I will make sure to send you a pm when I post it.

No I haven't even seen a all wheat single malt. But I'm sure I will try one sooner or later. Probably my own. LOL
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:19 am

Prairiepiss wrote:I've almost got the new thread together. About my new malting setup. I just need a few more pics. And I will be posting it soon. I will make sure to send you a pm when I post it.

No I haven't even seen a all wheat single malt. But I'm sure I will try one sooner or later. Probably my own. LOL


Great, thank you.

You should definitely try an all wheat malt AG. Very fruity flavorful unique whiskey. And then dropping a cube in it makes it really bloom, its wild. I promise youll love it, if you dont, Ill send you my address to ship it too :ebiggrin: Making it with your own malted wheat would be a really special treat.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:31 am

http://cocktails.about.com/od/whiskeyre ... hiskey.htm

LOL, this guy really knows how to string together compelling adjectives....

"On the palate, neat this whiskey was very soft, almost like a baby's blanket caressing my tongue, with freshly baked orange scones, cinnamon toast, white pepper and peppermint notes. When I added a splash of water, this whiskey became even softer, with ripe peaches, spice cake, Juicy Fruit gum and grassy notes. The whiskey had a finish of 25 to 30 seconds, taken neat the finish was heavy on cinnamon, caramel and spice notes while with water this whiskey slowly disappeared with teasers of caramel, nectarines, peaches and mint."
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:13 am

Are you trying to seduce us? You are!
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby jarheadshiner » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:18 am

Gonna make this the first run on my VM. Thinking of using rye malt or should I go for a white wheat? Going for a vodka type drink.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:52 am

jarhead, rye malt is very low DP, wheat malt is very high DP. For mashing 25lb bag of wheat flour with malt youll need far less with wheat malt (~5 lbs) than rye malt (~15lbs). Some rye for flavor would be nice tho.

Also bear in mind my comments on thickess. I add high temp enzymes right up front when the flour is congealing into an almost solid blob (with 12g water). Since you have to wait it out until it hits 150 you should prolly use 14-15 g water per 25lb bag.

Aside from that, its a bone simple mash and ferments nice just with the vitamins added that make it 'enriched' flour. No other nutrients.
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:33 pm

Prairiepiss wrote:I've almost got the new thread together. About my new malting setup. I just need a few more pics. And I will be posting it soon. I will make sure to send you a pm when I post it.

No I haven't even seen a all wheat single malt. But I'm sure I will try one sooner or later. Probably my own. LOL


Hey P, is this germinated enough for malt? LOL. I soaked some wheat overnight in water then put it on a damp towel in this tray. Shit grows like wildfire. Daughter already asked me if she can mow my wheatgrass and put it in a protein shake LOL.

wheatgrass.JPG
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Bing-Bot » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:48 pm

Damn those GMO's
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby BoomTown » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:39 am

Jimbo,

I caught up to this thread late. And I may have already builtin a problem for myself.

I'd acquired a 100lbs of wheat that was pretty rough stuff, had a lot of corn and field ruffage still in it. Tried to use it with my 50/25/25 grain bill for bourbon, but couldn't control the wild bacteria when the cool down after the enzyme conversions (i.e.135f to 150F)rest to my comfortable yeast casting temp (100f). The wild yeast was taking charge, and creating such a smelly wash, I was ready to toss the last 80lbs into trash, when it occured to me to try a 75/25 grain bill using the dirty wheat and malted wheat. (I'm and apartment distiller - that smell would get my lease cancelled if the neighbors get a whif..)

The smells are horrific, but I didn't give up. I decided to do it without corn, and I managed to cook up a 10lb batch, (7.5lb of wheat-plus and 2.5lb of malted wheat), I quick chilled the mash after 135F down to 100f by adding in the last gallon of the 5 gallons of water after the conversion had set for an hour. This resulted in my mash filling a 6-gallon bucket up to about 4 inches from the top. I tossed in a yeast bomb, snapped the lids on, and let it set for an hour. This defeated the wild bacteria (success!) and I noticed that the bucket was swelling from such high yeast activity, so I loosened the 1&1/2" pour cap, and went to watch the Bronco's game. Coming back again to check it, and found a robust activity, and the volume swelling beyond the capacity of the bucket, pushing out the loose pour cap. I Promptly split the contents between 2 buckets, and snapped the lids back on. This morning, things look fine (looking through the pour spouts).

Not sure how this is going to end up, it's my first major departure from a corn based recipe, but read with alarm about the carbonation factor you mention earlier in the thread. I'm wondering if it will do that boiling - puking thing when I separate the grains - will it still have the carbonated characteristic after I let it sit for a while before I run it in my pot still?
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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

Postby Jimbo » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:16 am

Boom, if you cook that raw wheat properly you shouldnt have any bacteria issues. It needs to be gelatinized, best way to do that is to pour boiling water over it and let it steep cook for a couple three hours. Temps will be above pasteurization temp in this process, so any bacteria will be killed..

I recently added another step to feed quality grains, washing. Boiling will pasteurize it, but not get rid of any anti fungals or whoknowswhats they put on feed grain. Mill it, fill a bucket half full with grain, then 3/4 with warm water. Stir it up with your hand, sift off the floaties and chaf and drain. Then put it in your mashtun/fermenter and pour the boiling water over it. When temp drops to 150 mash in.

In general 75/25 raw wheat/malted wheat makes a really fine drink. Im a big fan of 100% wheat whiskey.
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