Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

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Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:35 am

I have spent the last couple years primarily playing around with specialty malts, and different grain bills that compliment them. My first was Honey Bear and is my favorite, but this one was very interesting as well. It quite literally taste like stout in a whiskey glass. I made it a year and a half ago, but didn't post it because I wasn't sure how it would come out, :lol: . I encourage and promote the use of specialty malts in your whiskey bill, and encourage everyone to give them a try. Envision and approach a grain recipe like you would a dinner meal, and make them balance and compliment each other :thumbup: .

So first, this is not for the faint of heart. This is a bold, dark flavored, winter fireplace bourbon. Quite opposite from HBB, this is not in my opinion, an immediate drinking bourbon. You are going to want to give this a year on oak, and let those bold characteristics merge. But as I said, if you like stout beer, you will love this bourbon. It has notes of dark chocolate, caramel, and the barley provides an earthly grain aspect.

Makes a great mixing bourbon for coke or different cocktails. It can stand up and not be lost in a mixed drink.

Also pulled old photos to photodocument.The process is posted elsewhere on the site, and is the one I use for all my all grain.

Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

6lbs corn meal
.5 caramel malt
.5 chocolate wheat malt
2lbs 2 row
1lb 6 row

If you want it less grainy, replace 6 row with all 2 row. I used chocolate wheat because it's less astringent than regular chocolate malt (no husks). Be creative and top your own Sundae. Some toasted oatmeal in there? Cherry wood on top?

Corn, caramel, and chocolate in a bucket

img20170325_112019.jpg


Add boiling water (212f)

img20170325_112048.jpg


Insulate or wrap up fermenters and let sit for hours. Don't stir to much, just once in a while.

img20170325_112113.jpg


After a while it will look like this

img20170325_112142.jpg


When temp hits 150, add your barley malt, and let sit for a couple hours still wrapped up. After a couple hours, cool down to pitch temps.

img20170325_112207.jpg


Reminder : take a reading! This was over a year ago so I forget what temp it was.

img20170325_112947.jpg


Pitch your yeast, ferment, run as you like.

Be creative and enjoy!

- SCD
Last edited by ShineonCrazyDiamond on Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby aircarbonarc » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:28 am

Thanks for sharing this, I will be trying this one day as well. Recently I made a caramel corn liquor, I used brown malt and caramalt its good but has a really heavy caramelness .
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Still Life » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:02 pm

Looks like I'm gonna need another cask.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby BayouShine » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:56 pm

I gave the specialty roasted malts a try this year too. I have one that has some potential, but I'm like you SCD, it's way too early to tell if it'll come out. Roasted malt, Special B malt and Chocolate malt in mine.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Shine0n » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:54 pm

Jesus man... :D
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Still Life » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:04 pm

Shine0n wrote:Jesus man... :D

hahahahaha...! I know.
Like a whole new world unfurled.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Shine0n » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:11 pm

SCD, man all I have to do is follow your footsteps.

I'll have to get more fermenters, get a raise and sell a kidney to keep up with you. Lol

After my HBB side by side I'm giving this a go, he'll I may go get the grains this week and make it with the HBB.

My liver is going to hate me, jk I don't drink all that much at all. I live in the middle of nowhere and my mom is old and I never know when I'll have to drive, plus it's 30 minutes from anything and an hour from any city.

Love the country!!!
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:03 am

BayouShine wrote:I gave the specialty roasted malts a try this year too. I have one that has some potential, but I'm like you SCD, it's way too early to tell if it'll come out. Roasted malt, Special B malt and Chocolate malt in mine.


Yep, one thing I have learned is that the darker the roast, the longer the age you want. Gives the oak time to merry and round out the roast.

Chocolate and heavy roast, a year.
Smoked and medium roasted, and standard 6 months.
Honey malt and other lightly toasted are good for white, but all liquor benefits from aging :D

Perhaps the lovibond rating could be an indicator for ideal time? It's all subjective to taste, anyways, but hopefully it could give people an idea of what to expect. Like, don't make Sundae Bourbon if you are looking for immediate drinking stock. :lol: I'm going to incorporate vienna malt soon. I tried once, but lost the ferment for other reasons. On my list again. :thumbup:
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineRunner » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:19 am

Recipe looks good and similar to what I was going for. Which caramel malt did you use?

I just did my second batch of bourbon with chocolate, wheat and rye. The first did not turn out and I think the yeast was stressed from being too hot. But now that you mention the astringency of chocolate malt, I'm wondering if that may continue to be an issue. We'll see once this one finishes in a few days.

I also have been working on a single malt, based on yours and a few others recommendations of using specialty grains. Grain bill is married otter (not sure if that's necessary for a bourbon?), Munich, special B, and crystal 120. I'm expecting long age times for these to smooth out. How rough is it making cuts?

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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:38 am

I don't think regular chocolate will be an issue, I have just used the chocolate wheat in the past with beer. And your recipe sounds great. That rye will give it a spin, ehh? Let me know how it comes out.

I think the key to specialty is to not over do it. 5-10% is a good range. In my experience, they should be treated like spices. A little cinnamon goes along way in an apple pie. :)

Cuts aren't really to much trickier, except they taste better! But the heads still burn, and the tails although flavorful, well still have that bitter back of the tounge finish. But if your aging for a while, you can grab some of those flavours and age out the nasties 8) .
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby BayouShine » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:18 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:Chocolate and heavy roast, a year.

That's the plan, but I may have to crack this one open early to bring to TB's in September.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:41 pm

BayouShine wrote:
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:Chocolate and heavy roast, a year.

That's the plan, but I may have to crack this one open early to bring to TB's in September.


Reading back through this thread, did you bring this? Don't think I saw it. None the less, the holidays is DEFINITELY the time for this cold weather whiskey.

The rest of ya... make a batch now for next Christmas. You'll wish you had! :lolno:
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby BayouShine » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:46 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:Reading back through this thread, did you bring this? Don't think I saw it. None the less, the holidays is DEFINITELY the time for this cold weather whiskey.

The rest of ya... make a batch now for next Christmas. You'll wish you had! :lolno:

Yep. That was the Coffee Bay Whiskey.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Shine0n » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:44 am

You know I'll have to try this, just got a 30 gal fermenter open and will hAve the weekends off until the new year so I plan on stocking up for next year's parties.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby hpby98 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:35 pm

Curious. I see 3 buckets in the post for fermenters

Was this 3 batches, or split between the 3 buckets?

Thx
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:31 am

(3) 5 gallon batches made at the same time. Gave me 3 strips in my 5 gallon still, which gave me enough low wines for 1 spirit run in my 5 gallon still. Rule of thirds :thumbup:
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby hpby98 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:37 am

Thanks for the reply - I do the same for my setup

what proof do you get from your second run?
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby OtisT » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:54 am

Hi SCD. I tried a similar batch of bourbon recently using some speciality grains.

70% flaked corn
10% British Chocolate Malt (BCM)
10% malted red wheat
10% 2 row
I also tossed in An extra 5% of Dark British Crystal (DBC) thrown in before the boil for some added flavor

The BCM had a very rich, deep smell/flavor but while it was strong, it did not seem complex to me. This is why I added the extra 5% DBC. The DBC had several rich smells that I hope to bring forward into the final product.

I followed my current protocol which includes using 15% backset (from HBB) in my ferment, and using a gallon of backset/HBB feints added to low wines. I started using an Belgian ale yeast, so my ferment was cooler and slower than my past protocol using bakers yeast at high temp.

A few notes:
The ferment was DARK, almost black. (I labeled my drop “Dark Bourbon”).
The switch from bakers yeast to the ale yeast is obvious. (The ale yeast introduced a prominent fruitiness that is not present when I use Bakers. No prominent Buttery smell that is present in all my bakers yeast ferments.)
The smell of the British Chocolate Malt was very strong in the ferment, and is prominent in my spirit cut. In my cut I am also detecting the Dark British Crystal grains, fruitiness (from the yeast?),and of course I can smell the corn. I may want to use less chocolate malt next time, though I will make that decision once this has time to age.

I just threw my cut into a new small bourbon barrel. 2L. I understand the recommendation for longer aging due to the dark grains. Unfortunately I’m using a tiny barrel, so I will need to age this in glass after it’s done in the barrel.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby OtisT » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 am

OtisT wrote:I just threw my cut into a new small bourbon barrel. 2L. I understand the recommendation for longer aging due to the dark grains. Unfortunately I’m using a tiny barrel, so I will need to age this in glass after it’s done in the barrel.


Chocolatly Goodness.

This turned out really nice. Only two weeks in the new little barrel and it has taken enough oak flavor and char, but it still needs more color and time. The smell of chocolate from the British Chocolate Malt is very prominent. If I were going for a subtle chocolate profile, I think 5% may be better than the 10% I used in this batch. I plan to sit down with this Bourbon later when I have more time to smell it again to try and identify the other scents and flavors hiding under that chocolate.

I now plan to let this age in glass for 6 months or more. I have some once used small oak sticks I may use to give it some more color and to help it mellow.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby fizzix » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:05 pm

Once I get a few more traditional liquors made, I'm doing this, SoCD. I like a finger of bold specialties (like a deep rye) once in a while. Usually chased with an amber beer.

[EDIT @ 11:35pm] Shucks it makes no sense to put this off. It's got to sit on oak for a long time so why wait? Will do this after Crow's Rum in a couple of weeks from now. Duh.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby OtisT » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm

fizzix wrote:Shucks it makes no sense to put this off. It's got to sit on oak for a long time so why wait?....Duh.


Now that’s the spirit. ;-)
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Shine0n » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:13 am

I'm pretty sure a tastey one too :thumbup:
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby fizzix » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:33 pm

Got this started and it's the best smelling bubbler exhaust ever. Basement smells like a candy shop.

chocolate, caramel wheat.jpg
Chocolate & Caramel
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:11 am

Mmmmm :thumbup:
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby fizzix » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:43 am

Must be the heater-and-blanket warm environment arrangement, because this was a fast finisher like Crow's Rum.
Sat steady at 1.015 for 2 days, so I ran it.

First, you have to know your chocolate wheat and caramel wheat taste in grain form. Biting some pre-milled grains in the shop, it's not like eating a Snickers bar.
More like wheat with sweet toffee & cocoa overtones. I found this helpful so I'd know what the drink would taste like, and what to expect.

Just in the stripping run phase right now. As "unrefined" as it is, that caramel/chocolate grain flavor is dominant!
I can already tell the spirit run product is going to be a delight.

This recipe comes with a caveat that it's not for everyone and that it requires extended aging.
I was expecting some mutant horror that only time could fix (I like deep commercial ryes like that), but not the case at all!

I see not only filling a barrel, but keeping some white (or at least in jars with chips) if it continues like this. Tasty!
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:37 am

Yes, perhaps I was too harsh on the warning, lol. This is an excellent bourbon, and the way I see it creates a whole new type of bourbon, a chocolate bourbon:).

Thing is, allot of people I know are not really stout fans. So, a stout like whiskey may turn those people off.

Sorry, I did not mean to represent it like a horror :D . Truth is, I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think it was absolutely wonderful.

And, it is drinkable right away. But the dark malts, much like molasses, benefit from the extended aging. It also gives the whiskey time to get that deep caramel mouth feel, that a Sundae should have!

Enjoy!
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby Yoself » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:33 pm

SCD, Love a big chewy stout and I love HBB so I decided to try this one. I’m fermenting my 2nd 10 gallon batch now and running stripping run of 1st 10 gallons in a few days. Going to do total of 30 gallons and put on oak till next Christmas. Thanks for experimenting with specialty grains and creating these recipes. I am an all grain beer brewer of 20 years and was excited to try this one. I’ve got a malt whiskey on oak now that I did some experimenting with specialty grains so Now only time will tell. Sorry if I missed this but what oak do you recommend aging this Sundae Bourbon on, heavy toast or heavy toasted with char?
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby masonsjax » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:12 am

I use some dark roasted grains in a lot of my all grain recipes to get closer to optimal mash pH, fine tuned with phosphoric acid. The roasted specialty grains definitely add a pleasant but subtle complexity to the final product.
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby fizzix » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:07 am

Vacation and holiday free time being over I finally managed to get the spirit run done on this first 18 gallons (of 36 gal. ferment).
The delightful taste experienced at the strip run has carried over nicely. Just "cleaner" now of course.
I think I'm getting an insight into what aging can do (from Cornflake Whiskey's improvement) and can project a future aged taste on this and I bet it'll be terrific.

Don't know if it's the caramel or chocolate (likely both) giving Sundae it's depth, but it is good!
Might be the excitement, but Sundae Chocolate Bourbon deserves this better "white" review, ShineonCrazyDiamond, than the way you present it!
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Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

Postby zapata » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:50 pm

SCD, which caramel malt? Briess for example comes from 10L-120L...
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