Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Moderator: Site Moderator
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
- Global moderator
- Posts: 3433
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:14 pm
- Location: Look Up
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I keep my barrels in the attic. Fill in winter, pull right before winter. By the time winter hits, the whiskey doesn't age much until the weather breaks again in spring. Still time in barrel, but much slower. That's why late fall I pull down. Ironically, I pulled my 5 gallon barrel down tonight and bottled my first. Tomorrow I'll move into corny keg until final bottling.
I'd pull now if your happy. Whiskey always benefits from a few weeks off the wood, anyway.
I'd pull now if your happy. Whiskey always benefits from a few weeks off the wood, anyway.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Shineonceazydiamond do you use a brand new virgin oak barrel each year or re use them.
I am having trouble getting that authentic "burbon flavour" i dont know if its time, amount of oak or something else.
I have had hints at times but its thin. First sip tastes like burbon but the flavour fades as drinks progress. Done heap grain bills from 100% corn to 20% rye. I just cant nail down the very distinct burbon flavour...
I am having trouble getting that authentic "burbon flavour" i dont know if its time, amount of oak or something else.
I have had hints at times but its thin. First sip tastes like burbon but the flavour fades as drinks progress. Done heap grain bills from 100% corn to 20% rye. I just cant nail down the very distinct burbon flavour...
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
- Global moderator
- Posts: 3433
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:14 pm
- Location: Look Up
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Well, I use Gibbs barrels, which give me that bourbon flavor 3-4 fills worth.
I used to get thin whiskey my first couple years. But we've already established you only like hearts, so you're never going to get your whiskey the way you want. I know this, becuase I was just like you. I had a very, very good ability to identify the different fractions in spirits. Then one day I decided to try and cut off the still by taste and smell. No small jars. What happened was I was no longer perfect in my cuts, but still way more conservative then many other distillers that I met and drank with. Anyways, when I loosened the purse strings of my cuts, a year later I found what I was missing in my bourbon.
That's when I learned that you need to be proficient at both cuts and blending. Cuts will let you identify and separate the different components. But once you have, you have to put some back in. If you don't want to, that's fine. It's your drink. When you're ready for the next level, you'll step a couple jars outside your comfort zone and refuse to touch a spirit until it's a year old. That day you'll realize it wasn't the wood, it was your stance on heads and tails (albeit, I still get scared to death when blending heads back in).
I used to get thin whiskey my first couple years. But we've already established you only like hearts, so you're never going to get your whiskey the way you want. I know this, becuase I was just like you. I had a very, very good ability to identify the different fractions in spirits. Then one day I decided to try and cut off the still by taste and smell. No small jars. What happened was I was no longer perfect in my cuts, but still way more conservative then many other distillers that I met and drank with. Anyways, when I loosened the purse strings of my cuts, a year later I found what I was missing in my bourbon.
That's when I learned that you need to be proficient at both cuts and blending. Cuts will let you identify and separate the different components. But once you have, you have to put some back in. If you don't want to, that's fine. It's your drink. When you're ready for the next level, you'll step a couple jars outside your comfort zone and refuse to touch a spirit until it's a year old. That day you'll realize it wasn't the wood, it was your stance on heads and tails (albeit, I still get scared to death when blending heads back in).
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
- jonnys_spirit
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
- Location: The Milky Way
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Still have this on my list to try. SOCD, what toast / char do you use in your Gibbs? Ever try a level up/down or no char?
Thanks,
Jonny
Thanks,
Jonny
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
- IMALOSERSCUMBAG
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:50 am
- Location: Workn in the Garage
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I've bought barrels from a number of sources and have ended on Gibbs. By far my go to. I like a #4 char. I'm not worried about over oaking since I do test every so often. I like what I'm getting with the #4.
I have (5) 5 gallon barrels that have been sitting anywhere from 1 year to 5 months. About to start barreling and will re-use. I was figuring I could get at least 3 years out of a barrel.
As far as SCD's cuts, I'm of similar mindset. Take out the heads, collect until the output starts to get that "smell" and "taste" and then throw the remaining in a faints bucket.
I have (5) 5 gallon barrels that have been sitting anywhere from 1 year to 5 months. About to start barreling and will re-use. I was figuring I could get at least 3 years out of a barrel.
As far as SCD's cuts, I'm of similar mindset. Take out the heads, collect until the output starts to get that "smell" and "taste" and then throw the remaining in a faints bucket.
- jonnys_spirit
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
- Location: The Milky Way
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Thanks! I ordered a #3 char - no toast - 5g Gibbs. See how it goes but probably in for 2-3 bourbon fills before moving it to a different spirit. I've got bourbon to put in now and will probably do a Sundae Chocolate next year.
Cheers!
-j
Cheers!
-j
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
- IMALOSERSCUMBAG
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:50 am
- Location: Workn in the Garage
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
This weekend I took my 5 Gallon barrel down and bottled it. I barreled at 100 proof and filled the barrel. When I bottled I ended up with slightly over 4 gallons of about 110 proof deliciousness. I guess I lost most of that gallon in water and not liquor but I had to have lost some liquor to evaporation.
I cut down to 100 proof as this is a special drink and worth the higher proof. My son, SOL and a close (trusted) friend all agree this is the best I have ever made. I was pleasantly surprised how much of the chocolate comes out. Even at 100 proof, it is very smooth and very good to have neat.
I filled one barrel this weekend (from earlier runs this fall) and realized I need to fill a second barrel. What I have in the bottles is NOT going to last.
I cut down to 100 proof as this is a special drink and worth the higher proof. My son, SOL and a close (trusted) friend all agree this is the best I have ever made. I was pleasantly surprised how much of the chocolate comes out. Even at 100 proof, it is very smooth and very good to have neat.
I filled one barrel this weekend (from earlier runs this fall) and realized I need to fill a second barrel. What I have in the bottles is NOT going to last.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:49 am
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
SOCD,
Just wanted to say thanks for the threads, this one and honey bear especially. I've been running a bastardized version of the two (blended the recipe together and added Caramel 60l) which I'm doing on the grain then doing a molasses wash on the spent grains for a "rumsky" or lovechild. Both will go into casks to age when I have enough. I'm new to distilling but I've learned a ton from posts like this and I love trying new things.
Just wanted to say thanks for the threads, this one and honey bear especially. I've been running a bastardized version of the two (blended the recipe together and added Caramel 60l) which I'm doing on the grain then doing a molasses wash on the spent grains for a "rumsky" or lovechild. Both will go into casks to age when I have enough. I'm new to distilling but I've learned a ton from posts like this and I love trying new things.
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I'm just mashing in my first batch of a variant of this recipe. I can't easily get my hands on the chocolate wheat, my normal supplier doesn't have it and the shipping gets real pricey for just 1kg if I get it elsewhere, so I'm using the straight light chocolate malt that I bought a while ago on a whim. In the end (because I'm impatient) I used what I had on hand, and so actually made HBB with a straight substitute of the chocolate for the honey malt. I've pitched some HT alpha-amylase with the corn to make my life easier and give me some insurance, and I'll be mashing in the chocolate malt with the rest of the grains to try and reduce the potential astrigency.
It's quite far from this recipe in real terms, but with your permission SOCD I'll post on my results here as it's a blend of the two and was very heavily inspired by this and your comments on playing with specialty grains.
The recipe in full
3.5kg cracked corn (+ HT AA)
1kg white wheat malt
0.5kg pale ale malt
0.25kg chocolate light malt
For ~ 20L of water.
It's quite far from this recipe in real terms, but with your permission SOCD I'll post on my results here as it's a blend of the two and was very heavily inspired by this and your comments on playing with specialty grains.
The recipe in full
3.5kg cracked corn (+ HT AA)
1kg white wheat malt
0.5kg pale ale malt
0.25kg chocolate light malt
For ~ 20L of water.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Any update?NormandieStill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:20 pm I'm just mashing in my first batch of a variant of this recipe.
The recipe in full
3.5kg cracked corn (+ HT AA)
1kg white wheat malt
0.5kg pale ale malt
0.25kg chocolate light malt
For ~ 20L of water.
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I don't have lots of down time (3 young kids and self-employed) but I've since managed to squeeze, settle and strip batch 1 collecting just over 5 litres at 20% (ran a little further than I intended to but should get some flavour coming through!). Also started a sugarhead on the grains of batch 1 and mashed in batch 2, scaled up to 25L to try and push my final yield a little. Both the mash and the sugar head are making happy bubbling sounds behind me as I write this! Going to try and mash in batch 3 this weekend if I can to keep the momentum. Realistically the spirit run won't be before the end of march at the earliest.TDick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:26 pmAny update?NormandieStill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:20 pm I'm just mashing in my first batch of a variant of this recipe.
The recipe in full
3.5kg cracked corn (+ HT AA)
1kg white wheat malt
0.5kg pale ale malt
0.25kg chocolate light malt
For ~ 20L of water.
The mashes smell really good though. Hoping to pull some white dog from the sugarhead to sip on while the whole AG lot ages on oak.
I'll keep you posted. Scouts honour (Not that I was ever a scout so take that as you will).
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Sounds like it's going great, especially the sugarhead idea.NormandieStill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:07 amI don't have lots of down time (3 young kids and self-employed) but I've since managed to squeeze, settle and strip batch 1 collecting just over 5 litres at 20% (ran a little further than I intended to but should get some flavour coming through!). Also started a sugarhead on the grains of batch 1 and mashed in batch 2, scaled up to 25L to try and push my final yield a little. Both the mash and the sugar head are making happy bubbling sounds behind me as I write this! Going to try and mash in batch 3 this weekend if I can to keep the momentum. Realistically the spirit run won't be before the end of march at the earliest.
The mashes smell really good though. Hoping to pull some white dog from the sugarhead to sip on while the whole AG lot ages on oak.
I'll keep you posted. Scouts honour (Not that I was ever a scout so take that as you will).
Just to compare, you might try a dark brown sugarhead on one of the batckes?
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Sort of a rumsky? The problem is that brown sugar is a little like rocking horse sh*t around here. The french just don't use it. The best I can find is a very light cane sugar. I guess I could dump a little molasses in. I think this time around I'll try and keep the sugarhead close to the flavour profile of the AG. Going to be doing a lot of playing with grains this year so I'll have plenty of opportunity for experiments.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Just to keep this updated. Batch 3 is cold crashing and should get stripped this week. With a little luck I might manage to schedule in the spirit run early next week. Just started the sugarhead on batch 3.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1739
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
It's done. As with most of my efforts it was a bit of a saga. My third strip just puked and I ended up running fairly slowly to keep it under control which resulted in high abv low wines. The spirit run went well, ran slowly through the heads, then pushed the power a tad as I got into hearts. I collected far into the tails, and since I was tasting no alcohol at all, decided to check with my mini-alcometer. Which reported 30%. I was out of jars (I had 27 jars with 300ml each from a ~19L boiler charge at ~25%) so since there was no obvious flavour coming over I decided to crank the power and strip for a bit straight into a 5L pot.
Then I brought everything inside, and tested the last but one jar with my proper alcometer. Which read 9%. I put the mini-alcometer back in and got about 35%. Took it out, rinsed it, and when I went to dry it there was a soft crack and the bulb just fell apart. I'm guessing it had been cracked for a while and was over-reading as a consequence... which led to a discovery when I came to blend, because it had apparently been over-reading for at least 2 of my strips if not 3. My first jar off the still was at 76%, and my hearts began at around 60%. I adjusted my dilutions and worked through the jars and came up with a test blend, but a slight cold and tiredness meant that I wasn't convinced so came back to it the following day. I worked a little further into the tails and found the chocolate, and made a second blend with a much tighter cut. This was palatable so I added back in a little of the chocolate (had to skip 2 jars to get to it) and this seemed good. I blended into a large pot and checked the total abv and I was at 50%!
In the end I took off 250ml and proofed down to 40% for drinking as white dog. My fairly conservative cuts made it quite tasty with very little burn. The rest has been split between 2 jars. The idea being to age it on oak (med. toast in one, med. toast + char in the other). I'm going to aim to under oak, with the end-grain sealed with beeswax. The theory is that the low abv will pull mostly vanilla flavours and the char will add some smokiness which I can then blend back in. By oaking lightly (there's not a lot of nasties to age out) I should be able to halt the process at a point where it's getting close to chocolate milkshake without it ending up too tannic.
Sorry ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond for hijacking your thread. Feel free to edit me out into a different thread if you want to keep this clean. We now return to your scheduled programming.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
- Canuckwoods
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:18 am
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Made a batch of this last year and tried some to marinate a steak, wow the chocolate really came over way too much but sipping just a hint. Interesting.
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I made some over the winter. Thought it was rough at first and personally I wouldn't drink it white, but after 4 months on oak it's come a long way! The harsh grainy flavors are starting to round out and add an attractive depth to the spirit.
Can't wait to see how it is even further down the road. Thanks for the great recipe SCD!
Can't wait to see how it is even further down the road. Thanks for the great recipe SCD!
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Has anyone had any trouble with funky smell and taste with chocolate malt in 4 grain mash? 60% corn, 20% malted barley, 15% Carmel wheat and 5% chocolate malt. Thought it was done fermentation, open the lid and Ugh! Hydrometer SG 1.010
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I was thinking about dumping it. Thanks for the reply! I’ll do a stripping run on it and let you know.
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Went ahead and ran it through with a thumper. Very surprised it was very sweet to the taste and had a little chocolate carry over. Not to bad but the smell is kind of like 2 week old coffee sitting in the pot. Jared 7 quarts at 102pr 51abv. Separated heavy charged oak, medium oak and light oak staves all in there own jars and are now tumbling in the Frankfort Arsenal brass tumbler. It will be interesting after a couple days how it will taste. I really hope the smell changes. Usually if it smells bad don’t drink it! This is a head scratcher.
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
- Global moderator
- Posts: 3433
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:14 pm
- Location: Look Up
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Then don't drink it in 2 days. There is a journey it must walk, and this recipe is not for the faint of heart and defintly not for the impatient.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9677
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Surely your not serious ? a couple of days? Not sure where you have learned about distilling but it sure wasn't on this forum.
Try 12 months in a barrel and things might change. People here strive for quality, they don't take shortcuts and make rubbish.
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Tight cuts cuts and this was delicious at 8mnths....15g/l alligator char new american oak..
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
I take one quart with oak staves and pack it the brass tumbler and tumble it for 24 hrs. Throw it in the freezer for about 4 hrs. Then tumble it for 24 more hours. Then leave it in the sunlight for a few more hours. If I don’t like the color I throw back in the tumbler until satisfied.Then give it a smell and a little taste test after it’s cooled down. If it worth throwing in small barrel I’ll take all the white jars of my cuts and throw it in. That’s what I do. Give it a try. It’s better than waiting a couple of years and decide your disappointed.
- IMALOSERSCUMBAG
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:50 am
- Location: Workn in the Garage
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
How many times do you need to mention this? I would never drink this out of the still, or even a few days later. This is, by far, the most patient recipe I've ever made. Worth every month I stare at the barrel. I hit 1 year in one of my barrels this month but figured I'd give it another just to see.ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:32 am Then don't drink it in 2 days. There is a journey it must walk, and this recipe is not for the faint of heart and defintly not for the impatient.
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9677
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Yeah we can see how well that method has worked so far..........remember....your the one that's unhappy with the result so far.
You can not duplicate time in a barrel..........end of story.
Also have you considered that lead maybe leaching out of that tumbler into your booze as it tumbles for 24 hours.
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Wow. The product is in a quart jar with staves. Then
Loaded in the tumbler with clean rags packed around the quart jar.
Loaded in the tumbler with clean rags packed around the quart jar.
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 832
- Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: In the garage
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Super late update: I put mine into a 5 gallon barrel on 7/9/2020 and intended to keep it for 2 years. Well, I moved across the country in June 2021 and brought the barrel with me. It lasted until maybe August! It was perfect after a year, 2 would have been too much. The barrel lived for a year in South Texas in ,my super hot garage, and went through the desert in a towed car(greenhouse) in the summer. I want to do this recipe again but use less corn. Swap 50% of the corn around for something else, maybe oats? The recipe is 100% great the way it is though! Bravo Shineon!
This has made me consider so many specialty malt whiskeys!
This has made me consider so many specialty malt whiskeys!
Ut Alii Vivant!!!!
-
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 4659
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
- Location: Northern Victoria, Australia
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
7/9/2020
Is that July ninth (USA ?)
or seventh of September (lots of other places).
Geoff
Is that July ninth (USA ?)
or seventh of September (lots of other places).
Geoff
The Baker
- still_stirrin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10337
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
- Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play
Re: Sundae Chocolate Bourbon
Hey Geoff,
It is approximately 1 year from July 2020 (when the cask was filled) to June 2021 (when he emptied the cask). So, I assume he meant July, not September of 2020 when it was filled.
Sorry for the “American” way of dating, but it’s our presumptuous way of doing things. Old habits are hard to break.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K