Christmas Caramel Bourbon

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Irishgnome
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Irishgnome »

YSO191 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 9:22 am FYI, it may not natter to you but Caramel malt and Crystal malt are the same thing. The terms are interchangeable. What matters is the lovibond rating or toasting level. Very different flavors at the different levels.

I too am curious how this turns out.
Thanks for the info!

Grain due to arrive on Tuesday. I was out of almost everything :esurprised:
Got enough on order for multiple batches of HHB, Chocolate Sunday and this Christmas Caramel Bourbon. I am going to swap the pale malt out for some of the Briess Cherrywood Smoked Malt. I think if this is going to be an X-Mas sipper I'll want a little smokiness to it.
Fingers crossed this turns out alright.

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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

I'm doing this too. I ordered 2 new char #3 oak barrels for this and the Sundae Chocolate. This one is going to be corn, oats, and caramel 80l malt. I'm using Angel yeast, and already have the oats fermenting on their own. Tonight I'll get ferment #2 of 4 going with 50lbs of cracked corn. The next 2 will be corn and caramel malt. I'm planning on 4 one-and-done slow runs through my thumper(have never done it) and then combining the hearts to age in the barrel for a year or more.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Delecto »

Here is a good link that gives a primer on caramel/crystal malts:
http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/06/26/ca ... r-brewing/

Remember he is speaking about making beer. I don’t know how these flavors carry over into a distilled spirit. I am very interested to find out though!
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by seabass »

Dark crystal is bad. Do not like. If you've ever had an oxidised homebrew with a bunch of dark crystal, it's not a flavor you will forget. It comes across very much like that in spirits. I've used crystal 120 and special b with bad results. I can't comment on anything with an srm lower than 120.

Golden naked oats are delicious in spirits. They're light crystal oats. It gives a bit of butterscotch and granola flavor in my experience.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Irishgnome »

I really enjoy where this discussion is headed.
I think we should start a new thread discussing grain and results that members have been able to compare.
So far, I have mainly stuck to the tried and true all grain recipes. I'd like to venture out a bit more, looks like I have some reading to do!
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

Irishgnome wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 5:42 am I think we should start a new thread discussing grain and results that members have been able to compare.
OK, I'm fermenting whole rolled oats and cracked corn from TS supply right now. I'm also using Angel yeast, no mashing needed. I just pitched the yeast on ferment #2 of 4, 50lbs of corn run through my mill to get it smaller and 30 gallons of water. #3,4 will be 50lbs of corn and 17.5lbs of caramel 80 malt with 30 gallons of water.

The oats have been fermenting great.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

Checked the SG just now: oats are 1.004 and covered in a pellicle, cracked corn is 1.002. Time to strip!
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

Stripping the corn now, I added 20 backset from the oats to it yesterday. I may do the spirit run tomorrow. My other option I'm considering is waiting until my barley arrives and start the ferments and do a strip of one. That way I can add some of the caramelly backset to the low wines for the first spirit run.

Here's the pellicle on my corn today:
20200527_133906.jpg
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Irishgnome »

Arrived a day late, but I’m not mad.
013620FA-804B-4015-9BB5-4586E91C75B4.jpeg
Looking forward to getting this one going.
Fingers crossed it’s a good one!
I’ll be sure to let you guys know how this progresses.

Cheers
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

I'm 1/3 of the way there now, 2 strips of about 6.5 gallons each. 2 more strips and 2 spirit runs.
Today's low wines:
20200525_180028.jpg
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Delecto »

I started mine Tuesday.
9 gallons of water
9.5 lbs flaked corn
7 lbs pale malt
1 lb crystal 40
.75 lbs rice hulls
Whitestar American whiskey yeast
It is happily fermenting away in my mash tun
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

I've had to make more changes to my recipe, it's not the same as the OP anymore but still in the same vein/spirit of being a very caramel bourbon. You can tell me to take a hike if it's too different.

It's now:
40% cracked corn
40% whole oats
20% caramel 60l
Angel yeast

I went to TS for corn today and they were almost sold out, but had more oats so I grabbed some. I'm currently pouring boiling water on the grains of #3,4 of 4 ferments to sterilize them before I top off with cool water and add the Angel yeast. I already stripped the first 2 ferments of corn and oats. I'll do a strip of one of these with the caramel so I can use some backset to water down the previous low wines for the first of 2 spirit runs. Then do the last strip and last spirit run. This will go into a new charred oak 5 gallon barrel until next Christmas.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

This morning the bubbling in the fermenters has slowed considerably, looks like they are nearly done. 3 days with improved stirring( I bought a paint stirrer) and being in my very hot garage has done the trick! The ferments are 50lbs of either corn or oats plus the caramel. The oats one is even starting to get some lacto pellicle growing on it. Tonight I'll add backset to the lacto one and get my still ready for the next round of stripping when the gravity is near 1.000.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Looks awesome! How do the low wines smell? I'd love to do a batch of this some day.

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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

I'll find out in a few days! My previously stripped low wines were just straight corn and oats, so nothing out of the ordinary.

I made some BWKO(Bourbon Whiskey Knock Off, like an UJSSM) that used Vienna malt and it smelled like Worther's butterscotch candies!
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

Today I'm doing the final spirit run! 50/50 low wines and backset. The backset from the strips and first of 2 spirit runs were pure caramel/butterscotch maltiness, it's definitely coming through big time in the final spirit.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

Filled it to the rim with 57.5% to get some more sweet flavors. This will be in the barrel until December 2021.
20200611_130703.jpg
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Delecto »

Something to keep in mind when using Crystal malts, you will not get any additional fermentables from it. The process of making a Crystal malt combines a sugar to a sugar molecule which is non-fermentable. That is how the sweetness comes through in the finished product. It also has no diastatic power (conversion enzymes) left. You will need to provide those with another malt or by adding amalayse.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by MartinCash »

Delecto wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:48 pm Something to keep in mind when using Crystal malts, you will not get any additional fermentables from it. The process of making a Crystal malt combines a sugar to a sugar molecule which is non-fermentable. That is how the sweetness comes through in the finished product. It also has no diastatic power (conversion enzymes) left. You will need to provide those with another malt or by adding amalayse.
This is not so. You are correct that they are not diastatic, but crystal malts are steamed and undergo a process of internal mashing that produces a highly dextrinous product. They are low fermentability compared to regular malt, but will absolutely contain maltose, maltotriose and maltotetraose which are fermentable by most yeasts and will absolutely contribute to the final ABV. Lighter crystals are much more fermentable than darker ones because Maillard (browning) reactions during the kilning reduce fermentability even more.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Delecto »

MartinCash wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:12 pm
Delecto wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:48 pm Something to keep in mind when using Crystal malts, you will not get any additional fermentables from it. The process of making a Crystal malt combines a sugar to a sugar molecule which is non-fermentable. That is how the sweetness comes through in the finished product. It also has no diastatic power (conversion enzymes) left. You will need to provide those with another malt or by adding amalayse.
This is not so. You are correct that they are not diastatic, but crystal malts are steamed and undergo a process of internal mashing that produces a highly dextrinous product. They are low fermentability compared to regular malt, but will absolutely contain maltose, maltotriose and maltotetraose which are fermentable by most yeasts and will absolutely contribute to the final ABV. Lighter crystals are much more fermentable than darker ones because Maillard (browning) reactions during the kilning reduce fermentability even more.
Well color me surprised. You are right. Something I should have known for sure. Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by MartinCash »

No worries! Usually the amounts we use wouldn't throw off the calculations too much anyway.

Also if you used a yeast like Windsor that can't ferment molecules larger than 2 sugars (larger than maltose), you'd see much more of an effect.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer »

6 month taste test! The oats are obvious in the smell and taste. Sweet, vanilla, more brown sugar than caramel. A bit lacking in body. Will pull another ounce at the 9 month mark.
20201207_205015.jpg
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Biker24a69 »

Looks like a killer recipe so far heres my 2 cents so i can keep up with this thread
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by IMALOSERSCUMBAG »

Last winter I was able to make 5 gallons at 60% and put into a 5 gallon barrel. I took a sip last weekend and holy shit is it coming in. I barreled in late January so I'm at about 7 months. I'm thinking bottling in late December. Will need some for Christmas.

One thought I had was to leave 1-2 gallons in the barrel and add to re-fill. Does anyone have and thoughts + or - on that?
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Hambone »

I think you should send the last two gallons to me.

But since that isn’t happening, I would go for it…
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by 8Ball »

55 posts and its not even mashed in??
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

8Ball wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:46 am 55 posts and its not even mashed in??
I dont think ShineOn ever mashed his, or he forgot that he made this thread. At least a couple people have made it.
I stumbled across this thread when I got an inspiration to try corn and crystal malt to get a kettle corn flavor whiskey.
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by bcook608 »

Man, so many good recipes! Got a long list started that I'll have to try!
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Re: Christmas Caramel Bourbon

Post by Fwapsk »

Beerswimmer wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:47 am Filled it to the rim with 57.5% to get some more sweet flavors. This will be in the barrel until December 2021.
20200611_130703.jpg
Gotta ask - did you open this last December?
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