Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby muckanic » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:24 pm

trthskr4 wrote:My was is down from 1.09-1.06 this morning, not confident but I'm thinking that's roughly 5% alcohol so someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's slowed down a little so I added 1-1/2 Tbsp. GA-100 and stirred it in. There was no cap on the wash before but a couple seconds after stirring in the gluco it almost erupted with a foam cap, don't know why just reporting what happened.?


The ABV is roughly given by dividing the gravity drop by 7.5, so more like 4% at this point. For clean product (which seems to be what folks are chasing with the fancy molasses), I generally shoot for a drop of no more than 55 (7% ABV). The eruption was probably due to the mechanical act of adding fine particles to provide nucleation sites for dissolved CO2. It would be too soon for the enzyme to have done anything.

trthskr4 wrote:So in my estimate there's alot of non fermentables in the wash, there's alot of difference in 6.8 kg and 4.5 kg and I don't think my scales were off that much. Am I on the right track thinking the wash should work down to around 1.02 or 1.03 and stop?


If as you said your molasses is half sugar, then you would expect a difference of about 5.5 lbs, which is roughly 2.3 kg, which is what you have. This assumes the molasses is completely soluble BTW. In 7.5 US galls, 5.5 lbs should result in a terminal gravity of about 30, just like you are predicting. The main question is what those non-fermentables in the molasses actually are. If they are some sort of higher-weight sugar like a dextrin, then these would be expected to ferment slowly during a secondary stage, and would respond to gluco or beta amylase treatment. If they are starch or protein, they might slowly settle out depending on their weight (like Barney suggested), except that starch would also respond to enzyme treatment. One obvious test is to wait for the gravity to drop below zero, give things a stir, then measure the gravity again. Yeast shouldn't affect the gravity reading because it is not soluble.
muckanic
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 1:19 am
Location: Canberra

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby trthskr4 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:43 am

Thanks Muckanic and Barney, I'm still trying to learn to do the calculations and to better understand the process. I figured the foaming was from the C02 reacting to some degassing and maybe a little of the enzyme just the fact of it being entered into the wash. It's down to 1.045 this morning and slowing down but it's cool this morning.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
User avatar
trthskr4
Distiller
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:55 pm
Location: South

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby trthskr4 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Uh oh, I think. My strip run of the rum started off at 70% after fores, then pretty much went straight to a tails smell and taste with a hint of molasses. It's ran a quart and a half now from 8 gallons of wash and it's dropped 8% abv. Gonna run it out to 20% and stop.

Question about the rum oil thing.
Should I take all the backset and referment with sugar now or dump it and start over and use the strip to add to the next run? My understanding is to use the backset and just add sugar to ferment it again and again for the rum oils.

I'm also gonna cool my backset or heat up my fresh molasses to 150*F and then add Gluco Amylase this time. Somebody stop me if I'm being too stupid!
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
User avatar
trthskr4
Distiller
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:55 pm
Location: South

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby potbelly » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:48 pm

Last night I did a spirit run on my first fancy molasses batch. I started with about 6L of low wines @ 27% and ended up with 10 jars of about 250 ml each from about 79% down to 27%. After airing overnight I did a smell test to try to get my cuts. Jars 3 - 6 smelled very nice, a bit sweet, hint of molasses, which I kept as hearts. They all smelled a bit better than they tasted. Although jar 8 smelled "sort of OK" I tossed 8 - 10. I also tossed jar 1. I added about half of jar 2 and jar 7 to the hearts. I'm a bit concerned I may have overdid the heads and tails and should have stopped with only the hearts but we'll see after the aging I guess. I'm still learning this so it's pretty much trial and error. :? Right now I have 2 jars of about 560ml each @ 75%, one with 2 "lightly charred" and the other with 2 "heavy char" oak sticks. Red oak too, since I couldn't get white so hopefully I dind't make a complete mess of this. :cry:

I'm really anxious to see how this turns out. The taste I had with cola wasn't too bad and oddly, after I had a taste of Appleton and cola, it tasted VERY oaky to me compared to my own although Appleton's been my favourite rum for years. Not sure what to make of that but I'm hoping it's a good sign of things to come. I'll check back in once it's got a bit of time on oak if anyone is interested.

Thanks GBM and others for the inspiration! This is a great forum. Next trial, whiskey made with corn-flakes and sugar! Hmm, where's the spoon... :D
User avatar
potbelly
Novice
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:30 pm
Location: around here somewhere...

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby muckanic » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:47 pm

trthskr4 wrote:I'm also gonna cool my backset or heat up my fresh molasses to 150*F and then add Gluco Amylase this time. Somebody stop me if I'm being too stupid!


Not that I have tried enzyme treatment, but my best guess is that the non-fermentables in molasses are a kind of semi-soluble fibre. I speculated a while back that protein might be responsible, but average levels of that seem to be fairly low. If that fibre is anything like cellulose, it might be expected that methanol levels might be boosted as a result. Incidentally, when manufacturers quote "43% invert sugar", they usually don't mean that literally. Instead, it is a total sugar equivalent figure that is being quoted.
muckanic
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 1:19 am
Location: Canberra

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby trthskr4 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:28 am

Thanks Muckanic, I already did exactly what I intended and stripped it all. Haven't done a spirit run on it yet, it's too hot out in the shop lately. I don't think the Gluco did squat as I got almost the same amount (-1 quart and a half) on the second run so you seem to be correct. Then I screwed up and didn't mark a gallon of the strip and ran it with my all grain corn strips so now I've got a screwed up batch of whiskey. :cry:
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
User avatar
trthskr4
Distiller
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:55 pm
Location: South

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby potbelly » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:19 pm

Well, my fancy rum has had 20 days on charred red oak and from such humble beginnings... it's awesome (IMHO). :mrgreen: I was "testing" occasionally and must say I was not impressed. Thought I had too much heads, too much tails but figured I could drink pretty much anything with coke. Well, tonight I gave my wife a nightcap of some "professional" brandy and I decided I'd try a drop of my stuff with a bit of water in a brandy glass to see what time had wrought. First smell was interesting, sort of oaky, a little smoke, a little vanilla. Then the taste was completely unexpected, warm, smooth, like a nice scotch or maybe like a Maker's Mark...but not quite. It has a hint of the molasses that makes it a rum, and I'd say comparable to a premium rum. But I'm a bit biased. No trace of the heads and tails I thought had ruined it. Oak is amazing stuff.

My wife of course was wondering why I was sitting there with the smile on and the pleased expression. So I gave her a taste. Her impression was every bit like mine and she wished she had my rum instead of her brandy! She was amazed at the change as well since she could barely stand it before now. I can't wait till tomorrow for another try and I think I'll remove the oak for fear of ruining it. I don't think this will see much coke - it'll be in the brandy glass with a drop of water, or maybe on ice. For all you newbies like me, don't underestimate what oak can do.

GBM - I salute you! What a fantastic place this is! Thanks guys for all the help.
User avatar
potbelly
Novice
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:30 pm
Location: around here somewhere...

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby myerfire » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:52 am

I started a wash with fancy molasses and a few minor variations. I didn't have any DAP so I used one capsule of Servomyces, used one multi-vitamin and one vitamin B-complex. I didn't put any yeast into the boiled mixture and substituted seven tablespoons of bakers yeast instead of EC 1118. I pitched the yeast at 90* around 4:00PM and put the carboy in a 10 gallon water cooler. At 10:00PM the air lock was bubbling like crazy and the temperature was up to 94*. This morning I checked, still bubbling like crazy and temperature is up to 96* I forgot to check specific gravity, but will assume it to be about 1.080. I'll report back on my progress.
myerfire
myerfire
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Kill-Devil » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:05 pm

GingerBreadMan,

Fancy molasses -

Fancy molasses is the pure juice of sugar cane,
condensed, inverted and purified. There are no
additives or preservatives. It is a pure product.


Thanks for the great post. You have inspired so much experimentation!

BTW, I have found that Sucanat is a cheap way to get the same kind of flavor as Fancy molasses. It is about 85% sugar and where I live costs about US$1.80/lb in bulk.
Here is how Sucanat is marketed:

...made by simply crushing freshly cut sugar cane, extracting the juice and heating it in a large vat. Once the juice is reduced to a rich, dark syrup, it is hand-paddled. Hand paddling cools and dries the syrup, creating the dry porous granules we call Sucanat. Nothing is added and nothing is taken out!

http://www.wholesomesweeteners.com/brands/Wholesome_Sweeteners/Fair_Trade_Certified_Organic_Sucanat.html


KD
User avatar
Kill-Devil
Novice
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:47 pm
Location: California

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby myerfire » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:13 pm

I distilled my molasses wash a couple days ago, useing my offset head reflux still with no packing. The SG ended up at 1.006. The 5 gal. wash gave me, after throwing out the first few onces, 16oz. of 59% 16oz. of 56% 16oz. of 51% 16oz. of 49% 16oz. of 46% 16oz. of 40% and 40oz of tails.
It all tasted very smooth. My oak chips arrived a few minutes ago and I will experiment with them. So far, I'm very pleased.
myerfire
myerfire
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby mozzie26 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:10 am

GingerBreadMan wrote:Well, I took the rum off oak and bottled it. Here are the contenders bottled at 40% ABV

Image

Fancy on the left, blackstrap on the right.

The fancy molasses rum is quite comparable to Appleton. The Appleton is slightly more refined and has a better 'nose' to it. I guess when you compare your stuff to pros, you'll notice a bit of difference. Aging the fancy would definitely get it closer to Appletons.

The blackstrap is quite strong - has a definite molasses character you can't miss. It goes great with coke. Aged a bit longer and this rum would be a definite winner as well.

Total time from start of wash to this moment is approximately 7 weeks.

----------------

Now I have to find volunteers to taste test..... :D


What ever happened to the volunteer taste test?
mozzie26
Novice
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:36 am
Location: Oz

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby docdave » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:21 am

GBM,

Count me in on that taste test. BTW, I was sourcing molasses in ON and found the following. Wholesale club sells Crosby's balackstrap @ $11.99/ gal. FreshCo. sells fancy (own brand) at $2.99/kilo. Gordon Food Services (Brampton?) sells fancy in 5kg packages also. I live close to US but seems alot less hassles to buy it here instead of making border folks suspicious. I hope this helps.

DocDave
docdave
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:44 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby kenfyoozed » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:34 pm

GBM, Who won? I read it all and I'm left hanging. To Be Continued..........
User avatar
kenfyoozed
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:57 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby GingerBreadMan » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:37 pm

I thought I would post an update to my rum making.

For a nice flavourful rum that can be consumed within about 60 days of distilling, fancy molasses with some blackstrap molasses (say 3 parts fancy to 1 part blackstrap) aged on medium char oak will make a nice tasting rum. Of course this is all a matter of personal taste but the important part is the initial ingredients will make different tasting rums and for those wanting to experiment I would highly recommend making a batch of each.

My top shelf rums I make now go through a long process of aging. I'm aging blackstrap molasses rum for 2 years which I'll blend with some younger fancy molasses rum. I find the fancy molasses rum hits a peak at maybe 120 days and it just doesn't seem to get any better with age (it's still good). Blackstrap molasses continues to age really well beyond 1 year or more. I haven't been making it long enough to determine if beyond 2 years it develops more.
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.
GingerBreadMan
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:39 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby violentblue » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:20 pm

I got an all fancy molasses wash on now, waiting for it to ferment out.
damn expensive wash, but I've got an ex bourbon barrel waiting to age it.
I'd love to match or beat Appletons for flavor profile.
I had a 2 gallon barrel from the same place filled with brown sugar rum aged for a year and 1/2, forgotten then rediscovered last Christmas. it was some fantastic stuff, but lacked the molasses character, still made for a very merry Christmas.
User avatar
violentblue
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:20 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Barney Fife » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:33 pm

I got an all fancy molasses wash on now, waiting for it to ferment out.
damn expensive wash


Even with the price of sugar going up, I still buy a gallon of fancy for well under $15. I get 5 generations of washes from it(I've explained my rum wash/techniques here often enough; search for it...). That one gallon of fancy, plus whatever amount of sugar, gives me a few gallons of high proof rum for aging. Once aged and cut to 40%, it works out to only a few bucks per 40oz bottle.... and yes, I'll put mine against any of Appletons' finest, and yes, I've imbibed in plenty of theirs; Appletons used to be my 'every day' rum.

It only seems expensive, if you're wasting the dunder. Even at supermarket prices, a fancy molasses rum is a bargain.
Barney Fife
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Mayberry, NC

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby violentblue » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:42 am

I bought a 5 gallon bucket, and paid way too much for it.
I can buy it by the gallon for cheaper, I didn't do the math in my head fast enough.

ya 15.99 seems to be the going rate for a gallon of molasses. and yes it does make some nice rum, this is my first attempt at an all molasses rum, no added sugar.
I figure I got a nice barrel to put it down for a couple years aging, so I might as well do it right.
User avatar
violentblue
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:20 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby dougjones31 » Wed May 18, 2011 3:15 pm

I never have made rum before. I am partial to all corn......BUT .... I was at work today. I am a forklift Technician, I was working at a cookie and muffin bakery, A guy brought me a forklift to work on and it had a big tank on it. Curiously, I read the label......SWEET MOLASSES! 275 gallons! The supervisor came by later and I enquired..... He said look out there in the back and I saw about 50 of these containers stacked up everywhere......empty. Well sort of. Every one of them had about 5 gallons left in the bottom. He said you can have whatever you want. Matter of a fact..... This tank on the forklift is expired by 2 days.....I don't know what I am gonna do with that....I can't use it or return it.

I smiled....Can I get all I want? Yes he said!

I guess I am going to make some rum now! Got an empty 50 gallon drum and filled it about 1/2. Damn it was heavy. But I think I have enough to run a few runs... :crazy:
dougjones31
Novice
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby zouthernborne » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:57 pm

You lucky bastard.... :D 8)
I have a very assertive way. It's wake up, move your ass, or piss off home.
-Gordon Ramsay
12 Quart SS Stockpot, simple potstiller. Mostly running whiskey and rums.
User avatar
zouthernborne
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:43 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Zxlork » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:22 pm

The fact that molasses expires is hilarious!
Zxlork
Novice
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby freshjive » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:49 am

how much oak chips (in weight) do you use per liter rum? I tried some washes with different amounts of oak (fancy and blackstrap aswell as some store bought 1 year rum) but it all tastes good, but the woody after taste is too strong, tried to air it out for some days, didn't work, added extra vanilla and caramel, didn't work,... any advice? thx
freshjive
Novice
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby King Of Hearts » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:40 am

Husker wrote:I would suggest this change in recipe:

Fancy
molasses: 7 @ 675g (4.8 kg)
Other ingredients kept the same
(sugar equivalent of 2.88kg)

Black Strap
molasses: 5 @ 675g (3.4kg)
Invert white cane sugar: 1.4kg
Other ingredients kept the same
(sugar equivalent of 2.84kg)
(BS molasses percentage of the original recipe: ~70%)

Your original BS
molasses: 7 @ 675g (4.8 kg)
Other ingredients kept the same
(sugar equivalent of 2.03kg)

H.


No need to invert sugar, I use cane sugar in beer making and the yeast love it, they will eat it just the same.
User avatar
King Of Hearts
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby steelheader26 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:18 pm

HookLine wrote:
This is significantly more yield than the blackstrap molasses wash.


Presumably they had different sugar levels to start with.


Hey got to tell you man, this is truly some fine work! About to try my hand at some molasses rum running presently and this was more then helpful! Thanx for the hard work man you saved me a bunch.(although it would be helpful to try my own) but I feel that you covered all the bases here well. :thumbup: STEELHEADER26
"Ruin is the path to transformation" author unknown.
steelheader26
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: ,Ontario Canada

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Dnderhead » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:06 pm

""how much oak chips (in weight) do you use per liter rum?""
they dont oak rum,not as such,some is aged in oak barrels that have been well used.thus little or no oak.
the color comes from caramel.
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby john442 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:56 am

I just found this post and Now im thinking I need to go molasses shopping ! :thumbup:
john442
Novice
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby jake_leg » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:31 am

I tried a feed molasses run and another using Tale & Lyle black treacle (fancy molasses, 64% sugar).

The molasses run needed a bit of aging on used oak and is very flavourful after 1 month, it actually is best quite dilute to get the best buttery flavour. Initially it was pretty rough but now I am hopeful it will turn out very flavourful.

The treacle run is much smoother off the still and definitely easier drinking at full strength. Very pleasant, rounded flavours.

I am glad I tried both!
User avatar
jake_leg
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:28 pm
Location: UK

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby MDH » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:28 am

I find the whole showdown funny - it's about the brand, nothing else. I just completed a run using this brand, mostly as a nutrient source. The flavor carried over was not pleasant. There were hints of floral note during part of the run but for the most part it wasn't pleasant (My friend compared it to the smell of yogurt).

So, I am going to reflux it and redistill it once more with another brand of molasses I have - which is a blackstrap that smells like caramel, treacle and vanilla. Nice stuff.
The still is not a liar. Mash and ferment quality is 99.9% of your performance.
MDH
Trainee
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby DFitz » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:15 am

Funny as it is, I started a 26 gallon wash using the fancy version of this "brand" yesterday afternoon and its fizzilin away this morning. It smells great. I'm looking forward to stripping next week when I return from my weekend.

Thanks Gingerbreadman!
DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby DFitz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:00 pm

I stripped 25 gallons of fancy molasses wash Friday. Smells fantastic! I tossed 30lbs.of brown sugar into the backset, waited for it too cool to 85F and pumped it back into the fermentor on top of the yeast bed. It took off in minutes. Great deal this wash... I'll strip this run Monday evening and toss back another if all goes well. I'm anxious to see how this ferment turns out. I don't think I should run this all together. I'm worried about loosing the aroma and flavor from the first wash. I'll do the taste test and make a decision then.

I scrubbed up a 120qt cooler this weekend to convert over for more fermenting... Looks like I may get a chance to ferment some sweet feed this week... :D
DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby jimmyjames1981 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:33 pm

All this talk about mixing blackstrap spirits and fancy spirits, why not just start out with a fancy and blackstrap molases wash?
jimmyjames1981
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:22 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Recipe Development



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests