Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Brad Gee » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:11 am

Really enjoyed reading these 6 pages. learned alot from them :thumbup:

Hope its ok to pick your brains in the coming months GBM as rum's my favourite tipple im yet to have a go at distilling
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby zouthernborne » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:27 pm

Rum is an excellent way to cut your teeth in this hobby. Very forgiving stuff. Start with a simple recipe of molasses and brown sugar, and take your time. If you don't have any patience, then you will never make a quality rum. :thumbup:
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby vance71975 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:36 am

GingerBreadMan wrote:I've started two washes, one made from Blackstrap Molasses and one made with Fancy Molasses. I've used Fancy Molasses for my rum making, although I do believe I made it once with Blackstrap, but I wasn't keeping good records back then. I'm really curious how the two rums will turn out, hopefully the information here is useful.

First the contenders -

Image

In the left corner we have Blackstrap Molasses, weighing in at 11g of sugar for every 20g of molasses, this is the lightweight contender compared to Fancy Molasses in the right corner, weighing in at 12g of sugar for every 20g of molasses.

Image Image

The recipe -

For both contenders, I've created the same recipe, as follows

7 x 675g molasses
1/4 cup of active dry yeast
2 Women's multi vitamins ground to a powder (for vitamin B)
2 tsp of citric acid
5 tsp of DAP
5 ounce of tomato paste
2 pkg of EC-1118
approx 17-18L of spring water

First I bring 1L of water to boil in a pot. Add active dry yeast, vitamins, citric acid, DAP, tomato paste. Stir until it looks like tomato soup (although I wouldn't want to eat it). This kills the yeast which along with the other ingredients provides all the necessary nutrition for fermentation.

Add molasses to a 23L carboy. Add above nutrients on top.

Image

Add about 10L of spring water. Mix vigorously. I use a mixer attached to a electric drill. This mixes and aerates the wash (adds oxygen to the wash) to get it ready for fermentation. I don't fill up the carboy right away to the top because the mixer is quite vigorous and I've had wash come out and had to mop before.

Image

Besides a taste difference between Blackstrap and Fancy molasses, the foam created by this vigorous mixing is different in color too, as you can see by the above picture.

Fill up the carboy. I leave some head room at the top - I always expect my washes to take off like a rocket :D (they don't, but I hate moping when they do). Quick measurement of SG -

Blackstrap Molasses - 1.084
Fancy Molasses - 1.080


Pitch two packets of EC-1118 right on top. Do not put an airlock on. Do not mix. Just let the yeast sit on top.

Image

Here it is, 3 hours later, starting fiss. I think it's working. I'll wait till the morning before putting the airlock on the carboys.

Image

Stay tuned...

My expectation (and hopes) is these will ferment in 4 days. I'll let them sit for another 10 days, then I'll distill. For both washes I'll do a stripping run down to about 30%ABV output. Then I'll do a spirit run. Since I won't be using feints from previous runs (I have no feints from blackstrap washes, just fancy molasses feints) my expected yield will be 3 x 750ml bottles of 40%.

Hopefully, I can find some good friends to do a blind taste test to see which, or if there is a difference between the two types of molasses.

Oh, one more thing. A brief description of the two molasses -

Fancy molasses -

Fancy molasses is the pure juice of sugar cane,
condensed, inverted and purified. There are no
additives or preservatives. It is a pure product.

Blackstrap molasses -

Blackstrap molasses is the residual liquid
food obtained in the manufacturing of raw
sugar. The cane juice, or mother liquor,
after having been purified, is concentrated
into a thick mass. As the sugar crystallizes,
this mass is passed through a centrifuge,
which allows the mother liquor to pass
through but retains the crystallized sugar.
The resulting molasses is very dark and has
a robust, somewhat bitter-tart flavour.


Just a Quick Question, is there a reason you choose to use Dry active yeast,citric acid,Dap tomato paste, and vitamins in your ferment instead of just the commercially available Yeast Nutrient and Yeast Energizer, which will do the same thing and cost less doing it? BTW unless your making a Wine to drink, An acid is not needed in the fermentation. I have been a Home wine maker for 18 years+ and a Home Beer Brewer for over 2 years, and i am also a published brewing author who has literally read dozens of books on fermentation. So when it comes to Fermentation, I do know what I am talking about. Just Curious if there is a reason you don't use the commercial Products, from the look of the recipe you could actually save quite a bit by buying those two items in bulk and trust me when i say, they are all that is needed for a good solid fermentation.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby MDH » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:14 pm

Acids are broken down by some yeast strains into short chain carboxylic acids, which react with ethanol to create fruity esters that are desirable in rum.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby vance71975 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:46 pm

MDH wrote:Acids are broken down by some yeast strains into short chain carboxylic acids, which react with ethanol to create fruity esters that are desirable in rum.


Well that is a good reason to use an acid blend, but sill a commercial acid blend, yeast nutrient,and yeast energizer would do the same thing and be cheaper when bought in bulk. I can buy a small bottle of each, enough for about 30 gallons for 3 dollars locally. 1/4 cup dry active yeast alone would cost over 7 bucks locally for me.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Jaybird » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:15 pm

EPIC Thread!

GBM I have to say you have enlightned me sir! Along with all the other input from others, this is an amazing thread and well worth the read from page 1! Thanks for taking the time to document so well for others.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Barney Fife » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:09 am

Vance, many of the members here don't have a 'local brewing or wine making' store; remember, this site goes worldwide! Also, many members are very careful, and buying goods in bulk at brew/wine supplies can raise eyebrows, so using regular off-the-shelf grocery store stuff works just fine for many of the members.

As for the cost of the yeast, re-use your yeast! It gets better, more "specialized" as it gets through a few generations and produces a better rum, in my opinion. Some of the major breweries of the world are still using yeast that's hundreds of years old; they keep some from every batch and propagate it for the next batch, and we can do the same. I do... and I also use much less than 1/4 cup per 5 gallons, but I'm perfectly happy with slow ferments.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby vance71975 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:42 am

Barney Fife wrote:Vance, many of the members here don't have a 'local brewing or wine making' store; remember, this site goes worldwide! Also, many members are very careful, and buying goods in bulk at brew/wine supplies can raise eyebrows, so using regular off-the-shelf grocery store stuff works just fine for many of the members.

As for the cost of the yeast, re-use your yeast! It gets better, more "specialized" as it gets through a few generations and produces a better rum, in my opinion. Some of the major breweries of the world are still using yeast that's hundreds of years old; they keep some from every batch and propagate it for the next batch, and we can do the same. I do... and I also use much less than 1/4 cup per 5 gallons, but I'm perfectly happy with slow ferments.


Understand that, but then again i don't have a local home brew store per-say, i have a store that carries a few items that will order in bulk for you, so since that is what is normal there, no raised eyebrows, either that or i buy brewing supplies online , so no eyebrows raised there if your in the USA that is. I do understand in some other countries are member's run a far worse risk than a fine, so i can see why you would not want to raise eyebrows, but here in the states anyway ordering in bulk from a site like Midwest Brewing isn't going set off any alarms. I do reuse my yeast, i was not thinking about that, i was thinking more along the lines of buying a jar of baking yeast in the store, which is like7 or 8 bucks here and then boiling it to use as a nutrient, didn't think that one through all the way lol so if your boiling the lees from your last batch to use as nutrient, well that will be cheaper lol, i would however worry that it may be deficient in certain things. Speaking from a beer and wine making standpoint, i use Dap(yeast nutrient) and Yeast energizer on EVERY batch of beer i brew, i have never once had a stuck fermentation and no off flavors that i have ever noticed. I tend to brew mostly high gravity, 8% abv beers and up, my wines are normally around 14% and up. Biggest beer i ever did was a 21% Barley wine, and it was SMOOTH as silk going down, but man it hit like a mack truck lol.

But i do understand what your saying, i guess maybe the difference with me is, i am KNOWN to be a home brewer and home wine maker at the one shop here in town, and to the guys at Midwest brewing, so if i do get the money around for a bulk order no one gives it a second thought. So maybe there is an Idea for our member's who are here in the states and DO have a home brew shop locally, get to know them, get known as someone who makes beer or wine, then when you want to buy items like yeast,nutrients,etc in bulk, no one thinks twice about it.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby qball » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:04 pm

In searching around for Grandma's Molasses... I only find Original and Robust, but not fancy

Original has 15gr of sugar
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby tom sawyer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:31 pm

I'm guessing Original is more like fancy, and the robust is going to have more blackstrap in it and less sugar. Thats just going from the descriptions, which I just happened to read today. I found a place that sells gallons of Grandmas Original for $15. I think I'll use that and a small amount of blackstrap, along with some brown sugar.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby tom sawyer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:32 pm

I bought two gallons of Grandmas Original, it has 14g sugar per tablespoon and 252 servings in the gallon so thats almost 7.8lb of sugar. I plan to use 4lb of brown sugar with 4lb of molasses in a 4gal ferment. That'll be a wort of about 1.090 that will hopefully ferment to 1.010 to produce 10 or 11% ABV wash. Thats 0.4gal of pure alcohol and if I can get half of that as doublings I'll wind up with 0.5gal of 80proof rum for about $12. Thats my plan in any case.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby whiskeytripping » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:44 pm

Hey Tom, do some research on Panela. You can get it in the mexican foods section in grocery stores (hopefully near you) it's a unrefined brown sugar in bricks, also loaded with minerals
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby tom sawyer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:22 am

I'll do that, I saw it mentioned and looked at the online source.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Farmer_John » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:34 pm

I was looking at places where I could get molasses in bulk and found places with best pricing are your baking supply places $38.92 for 5 gallons supreme and 27.49 for blackstrap is this a good deal not including shipping?
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Fastill » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:53 am

Farmer_John wrote:I was looking at places where I could get molasses in bulk and found places with best pricing are your baking supply places $38.92 for 5 gallons supreme and 27.49 for blackstrap is this a good deal not including shipping?

That's $5.50 a gallon for blackstrap. I pay more than that for feed molassas, depends on how much the shipping is to see what final cost is, but that is a good price.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby mathew11 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:31 am

IN regards to vances thread about 18 years experience plus 2??

Yeast nutrient = DAP = cheap
Yeast Nutrient = Vitamin tablet = Riboflavin & thiamin = cheap

Now you suggested in using these instead of what he used..... He did use them......

18 years of experience, you should of picked that up.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Farmer_John » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:32 am

Fastill wrote:
Farmer_John wrote:I was looking at places where I could get molasses in bulk and found places with best pricing are your baking supply places $38.92 for 5 gallons supreme and 27.49 for blackstrap is this a good deal not including shipping?

That's $5.50 a gallon for blackstrap. I pay more than that for feed molassas, depends on how much the shipping is to see what final cost is, but that is a good price.



ok so I just crunched some numbers on a spread sheet my state has 2% tax on food so i factored that into the price of 1 gal jugs at the store vs ordering 5 gallon pails+shipping costs

at 12.33 a gallon including tax anything under 10 gallons is cheaper at the store 15 gallons is 5% cheaper than the store but real savings start at 25 gallons at that you are 6% saved plus on average another 3.1% saved per 5 gallons only measured 25-70 gallons and at 70 gallons it is 31% cheaper to buy bulk

so in conclusion unless your doing like a group buy or just want an insane amount of stuff it will probbably be cheaper at the store in 1 gallon jugs

that said your shipping rate may be different depending where you are in north america and your local sales taxes may be higher or lower
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby DFitz » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:09 pm

I would consider looking for a nearby bakery supply. Most serve the public as well as bakery and you can pick up a pail of light molasses for a little under $40 w/tax. I'd talk to some of the local bakeries as well. One may be willing to part with a pail.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Beam » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:11 pm

i really enjoyed this thread, may i ask if you will sometime in the near future be doing some more perhaps a bourbon or whiskey one even :)?
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby Beam » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:32 pm

i have a question, regarding the wash, i have bakers yeast, and was wondering if i could use that if so, how much yeast would be ideal? also i got some DAP but its in a wine nutrient, the ingredients are Diammonium Phosphate, magnesium sulphate, magnesium carbonate, trace vitamins and trace minerals, now my other question is will the Dap be enough nutrients on its own or do i also need the citric acid and tomato paste still to the wash? thank you
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby shawn2974 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:36 am

I have read damn near this entire site in the last 8 months, sometimes spending as much as 8 hours a day just reading and learning, but i must say this tread has been very intresting and i enjoyed every post. I have a question on ur rum wash with the fancy molasses, How well do u thing it would run on a 4 plate column still. Im just curious cause im planning a couple cleaning runs to my still this weekend and hopefully one day soon id like to run this recipe and see how well it turns out.
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby bcboyz86 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:40 am

Mr. Beam,
I use about 5tsp of DAP per 5gallon wash and if your shooting for rum I would stick to plain ole bakers yeast. I make a lot of pugi rum cuz its fast and tastes pretty good if ya like dark rich rum. But I use about a cup of bakers and the yeast bomb(1super B vitamin, 5tsp DAP, 1/4 cup yeast, and half gallon boiled for about 12min or so) per 5 gallon wash. Takes about 3 days to ferment dry, then another to clear. But I also use a gallon of fancy. Don't know if that has any bearing on the result, but my washes have been ran through a de-tuned valve reflux still and it comes out flavorfull and high ABV. Best of both worlds I suppose... :)
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Re: Blackstrap vs Fancy Molasses showdown

Postby aircarbonarc » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:33 pm

vajravarahi wrote:I don't even drink rum, let alone make it, and this is a great thread.

I have a (probably dumb) question. Could you put the oak chips in sherry first for a while, then add those to the rum? Maybe you'd have to dry them out first, or maybe not. Or rinse them off first, or maybe not. I guess what I'm saying is could you make your own used oak chips?


Actually I do some very similar, I have soaked chips in Sherry covered for a few days then in a covered saucepan slowly simmered away the Sherry leaving some Sherry reduction and soggy Sherry oak. Throw those in my Rum and I have noticed a sweeter nice Sherry flavor. Duplimatico 15 is one of my favs, I love the Sherry flavor so I'm very intrigued by this.
Rum!
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