Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
CanadianWhiskey
Novice
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 pm

Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by CanadianWhiskey » Wed May 14, 2008 11:37 am

hey,

so i have done some experimenting with "winoe's" recipes and i dont understand why in a Turbo, using an 8kg Turbo , it asks you to use 8 kg of sugar and then in "winoes" recipe and just like much of the others, they ask for only 7-8 pounds, thats a huge difference. So my question is why do the turbos need so much sugar and these other recipes they ask for only half the sugar. Seems like ive beeen dishing out money for un needed sugar and not to mention the un needed off flavours!!!

p.s. Anyone need any Turbos lol???????


Thanks

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Dnderhead » Wed May 14, 2008 11:50 am

Turbos push the yeast to its limits to git the maximum amount of alcohol ( not a real good idea gives off taste)

As-Ol-Joe
Swill Maker
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:50 am
Location: Ozark Mountains

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by As-Ol-Joe » Wed May 14, 2008 11:55 am

Most folks around here make a lower % wash around 8-10. That is what 10 lbs of sugar will give you in a 5 gallon wash. Turbos make a higher % wash, but also give off some bad flavors. 8kg in a 5 gallon wash will give about 15% wash. The lower the % the cleaner tasting spirit you will have.
You WILL get addicted to this forum.

The Parent site is REQUIRED READING!!!

User avatar
Husker
Admin
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:04 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Husker » Wed May 14, 2008 1:28 pm

First off, you do NOT have to use 8KG sugar in a turbo. It is just a "claim" that they can handle that much. But from experience of many ppl, ANY yeast you push that hard will produce a terrible product.

In truth, what the turbos were designed for is:

1. Work pretty quickly.

2. Any brain dead fool can use them (i.e. everything you need is in that packet, or in the bag of sugar). You need no additional mashing techniques, nor any additional nutrients added to get it to work.

3. Can produce a "wine" that is as strong as many liquours, so if you dump some flavor in it, you can make a wineo acceptable (sorry wineo, for using your name in vain :) ) drink, and do so without using a still.

Actually I think #3 is the real reason the turbos were developed. Allows you to make a stronger drink quickly, and do it "legally", i.e. without a still. Also, rule #1 was best for fuel'ers. They are pretty quick.

H.
Hillbilly Rebel: Unless you are one of the people on this site who are legalling distilling, keep a low profile, don't tell, don't sell.

wineo
Distiller
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:33 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by wineo » Wed May 14, 2008 3:58 pm

Turbos are attractive to new distillers,and people that want to make some 18% booze in a hurry,{and dont know any better}but they make nasty booze.Someone is making alot of money off these products.They use a large amount of multiple strains of yeast,and a bunch of neutrents{too many} to make them work.All those neutrents dont get used up during fermentation and cause off flavors in the wine,and in the distillate.They also produce off flavors from the violent fermentation.They take a few days to ferment,but take forever to clear on there own.
I posted my plain ol sugar was recipe so the novices,and anybody else can make much cleaner,and cheaper booze.By keeping the wash under 10%,and adding minimum amounts of neutrents,the neutrents get used up so they cant cause any flavors,and by keeping the wash under 10%,the yeast is very healthy,and not a victim of osmotic stress,You get a clean ferment,every time.The wash or mash is where good booze starts,and figuring out how to improve it,while adding only what it needs,will make better booze every time.
Less is more!

Uncle Jesse
Site Admin
Posts: 3480
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Uncle Jesse » Wed May 14, 2008 4:11 pm

Wise words from Wineo. As I always say, you can't rush a good spirit and trying to bump your alcohol content to the highest possible point makes sense only in fuel applications. Even then, the additional time to ferment is a big negative factor. People want to push as much alcohol as possible out of their stills but it only means a sacrifice in quality.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

HookLine
retired
Posts: 5628
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am
Location: OzLand

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by HookLine » Wed May 14, 2008 5:29 pm

You get a much better result from Turbos if you only go to about 10%.

Use 4kg of sugar in 25 litres, and only use half the Turbo pack. (Or do a single 50 litre ferment with 8 kg of sugar and use all the Turbo pack.)
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.

Uncle Jesse
Site Admin
Posts: 3480
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Uncle Jesse » Wed May 14, 2008 9:31 pm

but what's the point of using the turbos at the extra cost when bakers yeast or wine/champagne yeast will do the trick much cheaper? or dry distillers yeast which gives you a lot more bang for your buck.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

HookLine
retired
Posts: 5628
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am
Location: OzLand

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by HookLine » Wed May 14, 2008 9:36 pm

No argument there, UJ, don't use Turbos myself, just bakers yeast. Was just suggesting a good way to use up any Turbos he might already have bought.
Last edited by HookLine on Thu May 15, 2008 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.

jdonly1
Swill Maker
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria/Australia

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by jdonly1 » Thu May 15, 2008 12:37 am

Mmm looks like I have to try wineos sugar wash :wink:I have only ever used turbos :oops: :oops: :oops:

minime
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by minime » Thu May 15, 2008 3:20 am

I've done a little experimenting with turbos and continue to use them for my neutrals. I usually do a 60 liter wash with 15kg of sugar for 14% yield with one package of yeast. As long as the temps are not to hot in the summer it works very well and I don't get any off tastes. I always do a strip and spirit run so I can't say if the quality would be good with a single distill. Simple and cost effective in my opinion.

I tried an interesting experiment last summer. I set up two washes of 60 liters. The first was just like above with straight turbo. They second I boiled the turbo for ten minutes and killed the yeast. I then dumped it into the wash (for the nutrients) and added a 1/2 cup of dry bulk bakers yeast. They both took of like a shot but the baker's yeast finished first and went all the way to 14%. It did however act exactly like the turbo in that it wouldn't clear on it's own. In fact it was more milky than the turbo. The only conclusion I can draw from this is it's the nutrients in the turbo yeast that cause the turbidity of the wash.

The important thing as far as I was concerned was both washes tasted the same after neutralizing with both a strip and spirit run. I'm not trying to convince anyone to use turbo's but I find them very convenient and the packaging is very good at keeping them fresh for very long periods.

Those of you that are purists have my utmost respect and I appreciate all of your help and guidance but sometimes I just have to take the shortcuts. I can't help myself :? Anyway if you are using turbos the package says they are not stackable. That is bull crap. Why waste two packages on a double or triple batch when one pack will do in exactly the same amount of time. My only advice is don't shoot for too high ABV and they'll do the job quite nicely.

Uncle Jesse
Site Admin
Posts: 3480
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Uncle Jesse » Thu May 15, 2008 6:51 am

well not trying to tell anyone _not_ to use turbos, just hoping folks realize that they require some special care to make a really good product.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

wineo
Distiller
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:33 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by wineo » Thu May 15, 2008 7:56 am

Your wash with the bakers yeast will clear completely if you degass it.The C02 keeps the yeast from settling good.You have to stir the crap out of it,but go slow at first because it will foam over.
If you dont use too much sugar,and use the half cup of yeast,You wont have to add much neutrents to the wash.A tsp of acid,and a tsp of DAP is really all thats needed if you stay under 10%.If you increse the bakers yeast to 1 cup per 6 gallons,it will ferment out in 2 days like a turbo.Ive been buying bakers yeast for $2.19 a pound.Theres 4 cups in a pound.Thats under 60 cents per 6 gallon batch,or with the sugar about $5.60 a batch.If you save the yeast,the only thing you will have to buy is sugar on the next batch.
I know,Im cheap!

HookLine
retired
Posts: 5628
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am
Location: OzLand

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by HookLine » Thu May 15, 2008 8:20 am

Your wash with the bakers yeast will clear completely if you degass it. The C02 keeps the yeast from settling good.
Certainly been my experience. After the ferment has finished, I let the wash settle for 2-3 days, rack it off, remove the sediment layer on the bottom (which gets rid of the bulk of the yeast and any other solids), rinse the fermenter out, and pour the wash back into the fermenter, which degasses the wash very well. Then cover it and leave it sit for another 2-3 days, and it goes very clear indeed.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.

blanikdog
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:55 pm
Location: Bullamakanka, Oztrailya

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by blanikdog » Thu May 15, 2008 6:20 pm

I began using turbo yeast because I thought that that's what the clever bastards use. Then I found this forum and found that the clever bastards use bakers yeast. I will never go back to turbo's.

blanik
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.

jdonly1
Swill Maker
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria/Australia

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by jdonly1 » Thu May 15, 2008 7:05 pm

blanikdog wrote:I began using turbo yeast because I thought that that's what the clever bastards use. Then I found this forum and found that the clever bastards use bakers yeast. I will never go back to turbo's.

blanik
Wish I new about this 2 years ago,thats when I sold my bakery.Man I had sugar and yeast on tap :wink:

Oaty
Swill Maker
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:42 am

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Oaty » Fri May 16, 2008 2:27 am

No, actually the clever bastards sell the Turbos :)
Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink-- under any circumstances.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

CanadianWhiskey
Novice
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by CanadianWhiskey » Fri May 16, 2008 6:02 am

Thanks for all the comments!!!!

Well i bought 50 sachets of 8kg turbo for cheap from Switz. Ended upbeing 3.50 a sachet, so ill do like you had said and use half the sugar and have sachet! That sound about right for a 25 liter wash? Ill let ya know what happens!

I understand the whole less adding the better and less off tastes, those turbos when you cut them open smell bad almost like the after taste from the finished product

By the way when i go to the beer and wine stores here and ask for distillers yeast, everyone gives me a wierd look! Is their another name for it other than the common suspicous name, so when i go in i dont raise alarm, not that i dont care but ive alread had to switch brew shops once since i started this little hobby from them asking to many questions.

Cheers from up North!!
Less Chattin More Drinkin

Dnderhead
retired
Posts: 13667
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by Dnderhead » Fri May 16, 2008 6:24 am

just git a dry wine yeast like lavlin 1116 or 1118 or another brand used for champaign - dry wine

CanadianWhiskey
Novice
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by CanadianWhiskey » Fri May 16, 2008 7:40 am

Thanks!!!!
Less Chattin More Drinkin

blanikdog
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:55 pm
Location: Bullamakanka, Oztrailya

Re: Turbos!!!why so much sugar

Post by blanikdog » Fri May 16, 2008 6:42 pm

Oaty wrote:No, actually the clever bastards sell the Turbos :)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: so very true!

blanik
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.

Post Reply