Plan for 18yo whiskey

[NzDamo]

So “she who must be obeyed” is pregnant with our first kid. It’s a boy and due in February so I am putting together a plan for a whiskey that will be bottled when he’s 18.
I was originally considering a pure pot still Irish style but there is not many of them that get aged for that long, redbreast is the only one I can think of off the top of my head so I will probably head down the single malt route
Just hoping some of the older and wiser heads here could give me some pointers on flavours I should concentrate on developing in the mash that will develop well over that length of time as well as pointers for how wide my cuts should be and how to go about aging when I will not have enough to fill a full size barrel. Originally thought about a mini barrel but losses on angels share and oak to spirit ratio would probably leave me with a thimbleful of oak tea at 18 years.
Any pointers will be gratefully accepted.
Cheers
Damo

[still_stirrin]

18 years is a long time to age in a cask, especially a small cask. Aging happens quicker as the volume to surface area is a smaller ratio.

But even then, you could pull the liquor out of the cask and finish it in glass when it is time. Still, 18 years is a long time for a single batch.
ss

[NzDamo]

I know mate but just something I think would be pretty cool to be able to pull out a bottle on his 18th that’s the same age as him. I currently age whiskey between 3 months and 1 year and aim for fruity flavours by using a combo of Belgian ale yeasts and aging on oak that has been soaked in sherry or sweet wine. Right at this minute I am filling my pot still with a heavily peated single malt wash that I am planning to leave sitting on burbon barrel chunks for at least a year because I felt like doing something like a lagavullin. What I am wondering in terms of making a drinkable dram that will be aged that long should I lean towards a peated whiskey that will mellow with time or a fruity number that I can finish on sherried oak.
In terms of aging I can work out the internal surface area of a standard cask and divide by cask volume to give me an approximate surface area per litre that I can match in glass but should I be swapping out oak at yearly intervals or just leave it alone. What would work best as a stopper on the Demi john for aging natural cork or a turned oak bung or a PTFE gasketed stopper. Should I go very wide on cuts in both heads and tails or just take standard cuts. Would I be crazy to chase some of the flavour down the the backins and use them as some of my water to cut to 60ABV for aging.
This is new territory for me so just looking for some pointers from those who may have gone there before
Edit FU autocorrect *

[NZChris]

I'd hazard a guess that breaking out a barrel of eighteen years worth of tender loving care of a carefully researched and distilled whiskey for an eighteen year old and all his mates, might not turn out the way you are hoping for. I reckon boxes of their favorite beers bought on the day would be a better option.

[NzDamo]

Oh I can safely say it will be more for me than him. It will probably be a case of here have one now bugger off back to your mates until you can appreciate it. Still it’s a thought that’s intriguing me if the big scotch distilleries tweak their processes when they know they are going to be laying down a batch for a longer aging process

[NZChris]

I doubt they tweak the process other than by not bottling the barrel, or by blending.

You, however, can tweak the aging process in ways that are not available to commercial distillers.

[Swedish Pride]

congrats lad.
Kids are great, also they are the devil

I did this for my youngest, i mashed in on the day he was born. only 14.5 years to go until I give him a shot and set the rest aside for me.

As was said to me then, you'll make nicer whiskey after this batch is run and the is true, I've made much nicer whiskey since but I like the idea of it more that I expect it to be a homerun.

Go a jar or two deeper in the tails than you normally do would be my advice, heads don't seem to age out as well, to me anyways.

[bluefish_dist]

I would suggest a used barrel as it will oak more slowly, maybe even a 3rd use barrel. I have not done anything close to that amount of time, but I would guess a 2x pot still with really wide cuts if any would be the way to go. Know going in that over half the barrel will be gone at the end, so start big.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I personally would consider a solera method.

Make a batch, put it in a once used 5 gallon barrel. A good one, like Gibbs. In a year on his birthday, pull out a bottle (or 2), cap it and wax seal it. Make a new batch of the same recipe, or complimentary, and fill the barrel up. This will not only keep your barrel full from angels share and bottle replacement, but will also help keep the spirit balanced from the long wood time. If 5 years down the road you need more wood, change the barrel or just drop sticks in the original one.

Do this every year. Then on his 18th, or 21st, or the day he gets married, you can present him with a bottle from every year of his life. All aged, well balanced, and you can even do tastings from all the different years, and how they changed over time.

That's what I'd do.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Oh, and congratulations!

[8Ball]

+1 on using a 3rd use barrel.
+1 on using less heads and deeper tails to fill it.

I’ll be doing something similiar with a 5G cask made by Mr. J. Gibbs later this year. My cuts on the Irish style spirit will be ~ 78-58%, aiming for a 60-62% cask strength, and will age it 5 years vs 18.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Congrats on the little one! Here’s to a healthy Momma and Baby during the whole pregnancy!

I agree on the fact that you would want to pull the spirit from the cask when it reaches your liking and then seal it in glass.

I think your plan is a cool idea and hope your little one can appreciate it when it’s time to sip it together. After 18 years and you don’t feel it will be appreciated like it should, what’s wrong with waiting longer...

[OtisT]

Congrats on the baby to come.

I’m no expert, so am just talking theory here. Never aged anything longer than 18 months so far. Badmo style barrels offer a surface area to volume ratio that ages a bit slower than a traditional 55 gal barrel. It is a stainless pan with a single oak barrel head. At 2 gallons size, it is about 70% of the oak surface area/vol as a full 55 gallon barrel, so it should age slower. With a head tha is 7/8” thick QS oak, the angels share should also be comparable or less than a big barrel too.

Badmo style barrels

Otis
.

[NzDamo]

Thanks lads. ShineOn I had never considered the solera system for anything other than rum definitely worth considering and Otis those Badmo barrels look awesome, need to figure out the shipping cost to NZ. I may do the solera system with a badmo barrel but keep some of the first batch aging on its own to see how much of a drift in flavour happens after such a long period of time in the solera system.

[NzDamo]

Good to know I’m not the first one to do this Swedishpride, I have a feeling the biggest problem will be resisting the temptation to have a taste now and then to check how it’s going and realising you’ve checked too much when it runs dry

[BoisBlancBoy]

realising you’ve checked too much when it runs dry

This is a real problem!

[Saltbush Bill]

It all sounds very easy to begin with, unfortunately most good things are not that easy.

I personally would consider a solera method.

Shineon's Idea and method has a lot of merit.
If you leave the angels to their own devices for 18 years you might have very little left.
Illustration below to show what can happen over that period of time.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I think it's nice you're doing something nice for your son, congrats!

Whatever you do, I suggest making another 5 or 10 gallon barrel that will be ready in about 14 years.
You and your wife are going to need it.

[Twisted Brick]

A number of distillers cite a benefit to 'pre-aging' certain spirits in stainless vessels prior to oaking. Should you find yourself short of time in finalizing your barrel solution, it won't hurt to rest your celebratory newmake in a corny or similar until you're set.

[OtisT]

realising you’ve checked too much when it runs dry

This is a real problem!

Make it TWO barrels then.

[NZChris]

You don't have to put the whiskey in a barrel, you can put the barrel in the whiskey. There is plenty of discussion on this topic to be found on the site. Barrel staves come up for sale now and again, but I prefer toasting and charring dominoes cut from a weathered oak round I got from my firewood man. If you go this route, I suggest only 2/3rds filling the vessel to allow for some O2 in the headspace.

If you want to keep this batch, don't stop fermenting when you've finished it. You have to carry on and make at least a years worth of stock, then make at least enough to replace what you consume every year after that. If you let yourself run out of drinking stock, your 18 year project is likely to vanish. Use a big fermenter, enough for three or four still charges at a time, so that each ferment provides enough low wines for a spirit run.

[BoisBlancBoy]

You don't have to put the whiskey in a barrel, you can put the barrel in the whiskey. There is plenty of discussion on this topic to be found on the site. Barrel staves come up for sale now and again, but I prefer toasting and charring dominoes cut from a weathered oak round I got from my firewood man. If you go this route, I suggest only 2/3rds filling the vessel to allow for some O2 in the headspace.

I have to second this statement. Some of my best results in aging was with oak sticks in glass jars. Easy to pull the sticks out and then store long term.

When aging in glass I tried to remember every couple weeks to open the jar lid for some fresh air.

[metalsmith]

realising you’ve checked too much when it runs dry

This is a real problem!

Then there is the issue of when he is a teen and you need a quick shot......

[NzDamo]

Brilliant advice here lads both on fatherhood and aging whiskey NZChris I agree great resources here on using oak in glass especially when it comes to toasting times and temps for flavour development and after looking at the amazon delivery charge of $168 on a $28 Bain Marie insert I don’t think I can justify making a badmo barrel when I could buy a full size wine barrel for almost the same price. I have used glass Demi johns for aging before but have used PTFE gasket plugs on them for this kind of aging length would I be better with a natural cork bung or oak stopper to allow a gradual oxidation over time rather than my current way of 1/3 empty headspace open once a week for a few hours then close and shake the bejesus out of it? I can see the value of keeping a regular ferment of 100L or whatever whiskey recipe I choose going and following the solera system of aging with maybe 6 or so vessels, I could even play around with sherried oak or chestnut in one of them.

[NzDamo]

realising you’ve checked too much when it runs dry

This is a real problem!

Then there is the issue of when he is a teen and you need a quick shot......

At least with a boy it’s only a shot if it was a daughter it would be a full bottle thinking back to what I was like as a teenager the thought of having a daughter makes me break out in a cold sweat

[pigroaster]

Buy a stainless steel container like they sell for olive oil in Italy and add the real Canadian white charred oak, six sticks per gallon and let it rip. Open it up for oxygen when you can and remove the oak or look at doing it around 2 years in the game. Once it is out things stop but that is not bad because things just change slowly after that. If you want one I have two extra. 19 litres and had a ss valve or a blind screw so you cannot cheat opening it!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Make a treasure map and bury it.
Give him the map.

[NZChris]

I have used glass Demi johns for aging before but have used PTFE gasket plugs on them for this kind of aging length would I be better with a natural cork bung or oak stopper ...

I only use natural cork. Oak stoppers may swell and break the jar ... bye bye 18 year project

...to allow a gradual oxidation over time rather than my current way of 1/3 empty headspace open once a week for a few hours then close and shake the bejesus out of it?

Are you in a hurry? Just coz something works for someone else doesn't mean it will work better for you if you do it harder, faster, more often, whatever, Chinese whispers style if you get what I mean. It's probably been over a year since I dragged my oldest out for a sniff test, blew across the top to create some air exchange and put the cork back without bothering to draw off a sample. I usually have a taste while planning the next ferment, but I haven't done one for a while.

I can see the value of keeping a regular ferment of 100L or whatever whiskey recipe I choose going and following the solera system of aging with maybe 6 or so vessels, I could even play around with sherried oak or chestnut in one of them.

If you are making the same product every time, solera is well worth considering. Because I'm still learning, I usually plan to tweak my new make each time, use various aging techniques, then blend later.

[BlackStrap]

NzDamo Congratulations on the new addition... Lots of great advice, on long term aging. Personally I like the Solera Process. The reason is, as the spirit ages with the introduction of new spirits being added, the volume of spirits increase (Keeps the Angels well fed) This also permit blending and building volume in your spirit celler. while practicing your craft as the child grows. The finial spirit would have grown with him, and would be represented as the new spirits are added to the original

Just my sappy 2 cents :
BlackStrap

[RiseNShine]

Congratulations!

I agree with Blackstrap. Id go with a solera system, using 2nd & 3rd fill casks.
Or depending on what size of cask you're using you could do something like
5L Cask
distill 10L worth of spirit
put 5 L into your 2nd/3rd fill cask and the rest into glass with one or two staves/oak chunks
over the years top up your aging whiskey in the cask with the spirit from the same distillation date that has been rested on oak.
this will allow flavours to develop and avoid any of those new whiskey flavours that you wouldnt expect in an 18 yo.

store in a cool dark place and limit sampling!