100% Rye malt tooo thick.!

[Solemio]

wow time passed so fast ... it has been awhile that I don't write a post... I am a character that loves to learn, and I know that there is always someone who can teach you something you do not know, that said. .. I experienced for the first time a 100% malted rye recipe to try something different then a Bourbon ... I was surprised by the result, something I thought I knew for sure, and something that until now has never happened ... I scorched the bottom of my pot ... because I had a mash that was too thick, and on top of that by mistake I stirred in the fermenter and I messed up even more because it made it more dense... I'll explain a little what I did ...

- 10 Kg / 22lb Rye Malt
- 45 Lt / 12 Gl water
- 12 gr ale yeast
- 1 Table spoon gypse

I put 8l/30Lt of water to heat at 70 C / 158 F, meannwhile I was grounding my rye very finely, poured it in small doses into my pot, temperature dropped to around 64C / 147F, i was stirring the mash every 15 minutes, for about 1 hour or 1.5hr. After doing my iodoine test, I was satisfied with the color and with beer bags I filtered the rye , I could notice that my mash was super thick like a gravy for your fried chicken... in the meantime I started to reheat the remaining 4 Gl of water at temperature of 80C / 176F, because I wanted to rinse my bag with the grain for about a half an hour just to extract the last sugar inside the grain. After that, I combined the two washes together, with a cooling system I used to lower the temperature of my mash to around 23C / 73F. I did a test to calculate my SG and it resulted around 1050 adjusted with the temperature if I'm not mistaken comes out 1.052 / about 7%., with a ph of 5.6. After 3 days the fermentation was completed ... you could see it was a finished mash but too thick,, now at this point I need to ask you guys some questions ...
-According to you, is the step consisting of the two washings necessary?, or is it the same if I use all the water at one time, and filter the grains only once, cooking them at a one single temperature?
-Shuold I use an anti-foam? or a clarifying product?
- Is the recipe is wrong? or are the procedures is wrong?
-or would be it be better to preheat the rye, let it rest at a lower temp. , then increase the temp again to start mashing?
Lastly, any suggestions on how to clean out my scorched pot still ?
All comments and suggestions are welcome..! and thanks in advance..!

[HDNB]

boil some clean water in the pot and use a scotchbright pad after that. maybe after soaking for a few days.

anti foam -yes
clarifier - won't help much
the recipe is functional, but you should add the rye to cold water and rest it for 30 minutes at 115* and also get some sebflo for rye.
don't grind rye to a flour, coarse meal is fine, it gelatinizes at lower temps just fine. i just "cook" mine at 150* for 90 minutes then cool and pitch. (i pitch at 105* to get things working faster)

a coarser grind will help with filtering out liquid.

flour makes slime. you can't filter it out.

last bit would be use indirect heat on rye, bain marie or steam jacket. you said "bottom" scorch so maybe try a big, thick diffusing plate you may luck out.

[StillerBoy]

Try doing a rye mash the " the large batch method" along with some liquid enzymes, especially the Sebflo-TL.. you can grind the rye down to almost flour (40%/60% flour/coarse) with this method..

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

Mars

[6 Row Joe]

Ya my first rye attempt was a scorched fail. I just tried another today only I used a drink cooler and steeped the flaked rye, let it cool to 150° and added the malt. After 2 hours the rye was converted as per a iodine test and I let it set to cool to pitching temp. I just checked a few min. ago and there was 3 or 4 inches of clear liquid on top. It was still at 130° and I will let it rest overnight and pitch yeast tomorrow. I plan to stirr it up and then cap it and wait for the magic. When the ferment is done I will strain it through a mesh bag and let it settle for a few days. Way easier than scorching it to the bottom of the pot like I did before.

[Solemio]

boil some clean water in the pot and use a scotchbright pad after that. maybe after soaking for a few days.

anti foam -yes
clarifier - won't help much
the recipe is functional, but you should add the rye to cold water and rest it for 30 minutes at 115* and also get some sebflo for rye.
don't grind rye to a flour, coarse meal is fine, it gelatinizes at lower temps just fine. i just "cook" mine at 150* for 90 minutes then cool and pitch. (i pitch at 105* to get things working faster)

a coarser grind will help with filtering out liquid.

flour makes slime. you can't filter it out.

last bit would be use indirect heat on rye, bain marie or steam jacket. you said "bottom" scorch so maybe try a big, thick diffusing plate you may luck out.

Tanks so much HDNB, for your very useful advice, I am very grateful for your help, and I take this opportunity to ask you a few questions:
-You put anti-foam in your boiler before starting the run?
- Sebflo I know what it is, but I've never used it, at what point of the mash I have to use it?
thanks again for your help ... you have been direct and to the point...!
I'm waiting for your replay

[Solemio]

Try doing a rye mash the " the large batch method" along with some liquid enzymes, especially the Sebflo-TL.. you can grind the rye down to almost flour (40%/60% flour/coarse) with this method..

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

Mars

StillerBoy I'll definitely give a try..! look a good system.!

[Solemio]

Ya my first rye attempt was a scorched fail. I just tried another today only I used a drink cooler and steeped the flaked rye, let it cool to 150° and added the malt. After 2 hours the rye was converted as per a iodine test and I let it set to cool to pitching temp. I just checked a few min. ago and there was 3 or 4 inches of clear liquid on top. It was still at 130° and I will let it rest overnight and pitch yeast tomorrow. I plan to stirr it up and then cap it and wait for the magic. When the ferment is done I will strain it through a mesh bag and let it settle for a few days. Way easier than scorching it to the bottom of the pot like I did before.

6 Row yes, I like your idea, and I will definitely take your advice and apply it to my technique to improve myself

[StillerBoy]

Here's info on Sebflo TL.. all you've wanted to know.. it's the third step in the process.. I use it for rye and wheat mainly at a Ph of 4.5 and at 130*F on the way down from 185*F..

https://enzymash.biz/download/sebflotl.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Mars

[HDNB]

-You put anti-foam in your boiler before starting the run?
- Sebflo I know what it is, but I've never used it, at what point of the mash I have to use it?
thanks again for your help ... you have been direct and to the point...!
I'm waiting for your replay

a bit of butter sometimes, but not usually with rye. i just did battle with some DME. definitely for that and moleass rum. Rye has been good to me in the foaming department.

i have tried sebflo at different times. At mash in with seb GL gives me the best result. i still use GL even with all malt rye (no cereal rye) because for the price of the malt, i want all i can get. 250g / litre of water gets me just under 1.08 at a coarse grind. sebflo doesn't cure the problem but makes it easily 50% better.

i am in the middle of a bunch of rye ferments right now, so there is a subtle difference to cereal.

i add cereal rye to water as it heats. i rest it at 115* for 30 minutes then heat to 165ish (take about 90 minutes) then cool with more water to strike temp and load in malt rye for a mash temp 150>149 this is when i add seb flo and GL hold at 150-145 for 90 mins then cool and pitch.

with all malt rye i have been heating to 157 strike and dumping in all of the malt, giving a temp of 150-149. then add seb flo and GL hold at 150-145 for 90 mins then cool and pitch.

i use a steam jacket...but i have scorched rye on an element so i feel your pain. i don't suggest doing rye on direct heat, but hey! maybe you'll be lucky! good luck! (ease into it and stir lots while coming up to temperature may help)

[Solemio]

Here's info on Sebflo TL.. all you've wanted to know.. it's the third step in the process.. I use it for rye and wheat mainly at a Ph of 4.5 and at 130*F on the way down from 185*F..

https://enzymash.biz/download/sebflotl.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Mars

Awesome SillerBoy..! That it’s going to help out.!

[Solemio]

-You put anti-foam in your boiler before starting the run?
- Sebflo I know what it is, but I've never used it, at what point of the mash I have to use it?
thanks again for your help ... you have been direct and to the point...!
I'm waiting for your replay

a bit of butter sometimes, but not usually with rye. i just did battle with some DME. definitely for that and moleass rum. Rye has been good to me in the foaming department.

i have tried sebflo at different times. At mash in with seb GL gives me the best result. i still use GL even with all malt rye (no cereal rye) because for the price of the malt, i want all i can get. 250g / litre of water gets me just under 1.08 at a coarse grind. sebflo doesn't cure the problem but makes it easily 50% better.

i am in the middle of a bunch of rye ferments right now, so there is a subtle difference to cereal.

i add cereal rye to water as it heats. i rest it at 115* for 30 minutes then heat to 165ish (take about 90 minutes) then cool with more water to strike temp and load in malt rye for a mash temp 150>149 this is when i add seb flo and GL hold at 150-145 for 90 mins then cool and pitch.

with all malt rye i have been heating to 157 strike and dumping in all of the malt, giving a temp of 150-149. then add seb flo and GL hold at 150-145 for 90 mins then cool and pitch.

i use a steam jacket...but i have scorched rye on an element so i feel your pain. i don't suggest doing rye on direct heat, but hey! maybe you'll be lucky! good luck! (ease into it and stir lots while coming up to temperature may help)

wow my friend, I have to tell you the truth, I was lucky that you took me under your wings lol, giving me useful tips and suggestions to improve my technique, success always comes with practice, HDNB now nothing remains to get me to work and let you know the results, thanks again we'll speak soon. !!

[Boda Getta]

I did a 100% Malted Rye run in my pot still and had absolutely no problem. I did clear the mast best I could and used an anti-foaming agent. I did run the strip as slow as I could, but ran the spirit run normally. Had no problem with puking. Have wondered if anti-forming agent is needed with malted rye (no doubt it is needed with raw rye). I was a little disappointed with the final product. I aged it 3-4 months in a 3 gal #3 keg and proofed it down to 90 Proof. It had a very nice color and tasted OK, but had very little of the spice I expected. It wasn't that different than my usual malted barley single malt I do. I have wanted to do a 95% rye (raw rye) for several years but read all of the horror stories but may do a run this summer and will report.

BG

[HDNB]

dunno how lucky you are.
have two rye malts working, the first at 1.08 is down to 1.04 after a week and looking a bit slimy but it's still working. the second, done the next day the same way started 1.08 and is at 1.02 without much action. looks thinner though.

just realized i forgot to lower ph before adding the enzymes...which i usually add a wee bit of acid... doing another today since last weeks are not ready to run yet, i'll juice up a bit with acid and see how it goes.

[Solemio]

I did a 100% Malted Rye run in my pot still and had absolutely no problem. I did clear the mast best I could and used an anti-foaming agent. I did run the strip as slow as I could, but ran the spirit run normally. Had no problem with puking. Have wondered if anti-forming agent is needed with malted rye (no doubt it is needed with raw rye). I was a little disappointed with the final product. I aged it 3-4 months in a 3 gal #3 keg and proofed it down to 90 Proof. It had a very nice color and tasted OK, but had very little of the spice I expected. It wasn't that different than my usual malted barley single malt I do. I have wanted to do a 95% rye (raw rye) for several years but read all of the horror stories but may do a run this summer and will report.

BG

Thank you BG for sharing your experience!!, and please keep us informed of how things are going!, I will take a break for a while because I have some projects to finish, but I can not wait to put my hands on these new recipes..!

[Solemio]

dunno how lucky you are.
have two rye malts working, the first at 1.08 is down to 1.04 after a week and looking a bit slimy but it's still working. the second, done the next day the same way started 1.08 and is at 1.02 without much action. looks thinner though.

just realized i forgot to lower ph before adding the enzymes...which i usually add a wee bit of acid... doing another today since last weeks are not ready to run yet, i'll juice up a bit with acid and see how it goes.

I lower the pH of my mash using gypsum, instead of acid. you use acid instead because it is more effective? what the difference between the two?