My agave spirit

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MtRainier
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Received my 20kg of dark agave syrup and bottle of terpenes. Will read back through the thread for ferment tips and get it bubbling.

I basically plan to make two 20g batches in my 26 gallon boiler with 10kg in each batch.

Since this is the first time doing this ferment I will strip into jars to see how it changes, combine it all, and run two spirit runs and blend them.

Maybe ill do one spirit run with terpenes and one without.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:58 am Will read back through the thread for ferment tips and get it bubbling.
Good idea.
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Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:58 am Will read back through the thread for ferment tips and get it bubbling.
I just re-read what I posted and realized that it sounded rude. Not my intention and apologies if I offended you. I meant to agree that it is a good idea to go back through this thread to develop a strategy for a successful ferment.

My recent first all pure agave ferment was like no other. SG, pH, temperature, yeast type(s), nutrients, adjuncts, cuts, aging are especially critical with agave.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Heh, I didn't take it that way. It's good.

So I read the thread and then decided to do what I felt like would work.

I just did a fairly low gravity wash. I put on:

22lbs of dark agave syrup
20 gallons of water (about 22 gallons total volume in 26 gallon kettle)
50 grams of SafTeq blue yeast
6 tablespoons of fermax yeast nutrient (so kind of a total of 18 teaspoons, they recommend 1 teaspoon per gallon, so it's about right)
1 cup of crushed oyster shells
1 teaspoon of gypsum
2 teaspoons of calcium carbonate

I am starting it at 95F since it seems to like to be on the warm side. I expect it will drop a bit through the night to the 90F temp it wants to be.

I didn't put in any terpenes. Since they inhibit fermentation I figured I'd just put it in right before the stripping run at the end of fermentation.

Edit for measurements:

Starting Gravity: 1.036

My pH meter had dried out, and I don't have calibration fluid, so I'll have to play that by ear.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

My start gravity was 1.034 so yea, pretty close. Should wind up dry at 5% abv. From my notes, the terpenes come across early and strong during both the strip & spirit. Tastes pretty good even deep in the tails. I cut out generous foreshot & early heads, then collected until it started to get funky at 55% corrected at the parrot. Saved the feints for next time.
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Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Nice. Glad I hit the right neighborhood.

I ferment in my kettle, so I'll strip this and collect everything down pretty low, then I'll drain everything except for a couple of gallons of hot backset that I'll use to dissolve the second 22lbs of syrup before diluting back up to 22 gallons total and starting the next ferment right away. After stripping that one I'll do a combined spirit run and see what I got.

I'm hoping after the strips to end up with 8-10 gallons at around 25% to run for a spirit run. I'll add a bit of terpenes for each strip and for the spirit run. Might as well get some of that flavor in there.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

My next ferment will be without any terpenes. Gonna find out what that baseline raw agave profile tastes like, then tweak it maybe. Might do a little blend with my first batch that I went heavy with the the terpenes. We having fun yet?
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by jonnys_spirit »

8ball, do you feel that heavy on the the terpenes carried too much flavor?
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:32 pm 8ball, do you feel that heavy on the the terpenes carried too much flavor?
Yea, I do. My first ferment was 2.5 times the recommended amount. I did 2.5 oz terpenes in 8G total volume. I stripped 7.5G and got 2G low wines at 21%. Spirit was the 2@21% plus a half gallon of reserved wash.

My hearts cut is good, but it is rich with terpene flavor. Sorta like how sweet black coffee tastes like. I like mine black, no sugar, so gonna skip the terpenes next time. To overpowering, but like I said, I added way too much over the recommended amount…
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Was anyone’s ferment kind of, well, enteric smelling?

One day in it is bubbling well, but stinky and unpleasant unlike the yeasty smells I normally get from sugar or grain ferments.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Doing a strip today. I added 100ml of terpenes to the 25 gallon strip. I'll collect down pretty low to make sure I get everything. I'll start the second ferment after this strip.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by Stonecutter »

8Ball wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:43 pm
jonnys_spirit wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:32 pm 8ball, do you feel that heavy on the the terpenes carried too much flavor?
Yea, I do. My first ferment was 2.5 times the recommended amount. I did 2.5 oz terpenes in 8G total volume. I stripped 7.5G and got 2G low wines at 21%. Spirit was the 2@21% plus a half gallon of reserved wash.

My hearts cut is good, but it is rich with terpene flavor. Sorta like how sweet black coffee tastes like. I like mine black, no sugar, so gonna skip the terpenes next time. To overpowering, but like I said, I added way too much over the recommended amount…
I been following this thread for a little bit now 8Ball. Smoked ice would pair well with two fingers of some agave.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

Stonecutter wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:17 pm
8Ball wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:43 pm
jonnys_spirit wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:32 pm 8ball, do you feel that heavy on the the terpenes carried too much flavor?
Yea, I do. My first ferment was 2.5 times the recommended amount. I did 2.5 oz terpenes in 8G total volume. I stripped 7.5G and got 2G low wines at 21%. Spirit was the 2@21% plus a half gallon of reserved wash.

My hearts cut is good, but it is rich with terpene flavor. Sorta like how sweet black coffee tastes like. I like mine black, no sugar, so gonna skip the terpenes next time. To overpowering, but like I said, I added way too much over the recommended amount…
I been following this thread for a little bit now 8Ball. Smoked ice would pair well with two fingers of some agave.
I actually bought a cold smoke generator to pump some smoke into a glass of hooch & ice. I’m thinking that I can put a quart of agave into a 1/2 gallon jar, pump some smoke in it, and put the lid back on. Idea is to have a clear agave with the smokiness of joven mescal.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by Stonecutter »

Brilliant! You’re a sniper out there man. If I was a betting man I’d say you’re looking to be some sort of a MD in the hobby. I recently had a shot of some peated or smoked mezcal of some sort. I think I was the only one at the party that liked it haha.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

Stonecutter wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:26 pm Brilliant! You’re a sniper out there man. If I was a betting man I’d say you’re looking to be some sort of a MD in the hobby. I recently had a shot of some peated or smoked mezcal of some sort. I think I was the only one at the party that liked it haha.
I really enjoy the challenge of trying to make a good sipper. My son in law shared some ‘joven mescal’ that he picked up on a whim on a liquor clearance shelf. Crystal clear and smoky like Laphroaig quarter cask scotch. So I’m chasing that rabbit down the hole at present.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Cold smoker sounds like a really good approach 8ball. Strong agave with the smoked peat kind of approach. Maybe age it on some spent oak to keep it light colored too. I’ve got some already spent oak soaking in bourbon right now to get it a little more spent. Interested in what you think about different smoking woods.

Cheers!
-j
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:49 pm Cold smoker sounds like a really good approach 8ball. Strong agave with the smoked peat kind of approach. Maybe age it on some spent oak to keep it light colored too. I’ve got some already spent oak soaking in bourbon right now to get it a little more spent. Interested in what you think about different smoking woods.

Cheers!
-j
Spent oak is certainly one way. I’ve used raw white oak with toasted pear & peach as well. I have some citrus that I’ll probably try, but only in a small sample. Citrus does a great job on fish though. My current issue is not having the time to babysit an all agave ferment for 3 or 4 days. Family has me stretched thin and on the road lately. I need to get all my agave fermented out and run. Then I can start dialing in the aging & flavoring.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

8Ball,

After I dumped the dunder from my distillation I noticed that the full cup of crushed oyster shells I had put in as a buffer had been dissolved. It seems to have been a very acidic fermentation. I got some calibration fluid for my pH meter so this second ferment I will check it a few times.

Did you notice it being especially acidic?
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Second ferment was 1.034 to start. I made a yeast bomb for this one by boiling 3/4 cup of yeast instead of adding feemax as if I was doing a regular sugar wash. Wanted to make it easy to ferment.

The pH was 7.0 after dilution before adding any acid. I didn't use any backset from the last batch. Two teaspoons of citric acid in 22 gallons brought it down to 5.0 to start. That seems like a big drop indicating little buffer capacity. I'll check it each day and will add calcium carbonate as needed. I'm hoping the 500g of oyster shells I added will keep it from plummetting.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:38 am 8Ball,

After I dumped the dunder from my distillation I noticed that the full cup of crushed oyster shells I had put in as a buffer had been dissolved. It seems to have been a very acidic fermentation. I got some calibration fluid for my pH meter so this second ferment I will check it a few times.

Did you notice it being especially acidic?
Oh yea, I adjusted the ph daily with pickling lime.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

After 24 hours it had dropped from 5 to 3.6. I adjusted it up to 5 again with calcium carbonate. It did not stay up from just the oyster shells. I'll check it again tomorrow.

I have calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) as well which basically does the same thing with the benefit of also removing CO2 as it converts the CO2 to carbonate, but haven't used it. I used that in my reef tanks in the past where it is called kalkwasser, and have been nervous about it here because it makes a dramatic change in pH in small amounts.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Slightly off topic but similar WRT buffering: I used 1tbsp calcium hydroxide in a 15 gallon melter-honey wash (prolly similar to an agave wash) I pitched a 24h-yeastie-starter on this morning along with a handful of oyster shells tied up in a paint strainer bag. Initial pH was 4.05 and the 1 TBSP calcium hydroxide bumped it to about pH 5.67. I'll be watching it closely for crashing over the next 24-48h and keeping notes for when I do similar on the blue-agave.

Cheers!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:00 pm After 24 hours it had dropped from 5 to 3.6. I adjusted it up to 5 again with calcium carbonate. It did not stay up from just the oyster shells. I'll check it again tomorrow.

I have calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) as well which basically does the same thing with the benefit of also removing CO2 as it converts the CO2 to carbonate, but haven't used it. I used that in my reef tanks in the past where it is called kalkwasser, and have been nervous about it here because it makes a dramatic change in pH in small amounts.
I had a 2 inch diameter sack of shells hung half way down in my 8G ferment. I also used 1/2 of a dinner spoon (I will actually weigh this out to get an actual gram weight later) of calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) hydrated in about 75 ml of water to raise the pH from 3.8 to around 4.3 for the first 3 days. So for your 22 gallon ferments, I would guesstimate that you use 1 tablespoon to raise your ph approx 0.5 units. I’m planning on doubling my shell sock size next time.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Thanks for all the info guys. I'll give 1 tbsp of the lime a try tomorrow to see how that goes. The ferment at 90F has been going gangbusters so far.

I ferment in my double-wall kettle which also has an agitator so a couple times per day I turn on the agitator and heating element and give it a temperature bump back up to 90 or so. It doesn't hold it by itself in my basement and will drop down to 85 or so by morning. Even lower as the ferment slows.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:52 pm Thanks for all the info guys. I'll give 1 tbsp of the lime a try tomorrow to see how that goes. The ferment at 90F has been going gangbusters so far.

I ferment in my double-wall kettle which also has an agitator so a couple times per day I turn on the agitator and heating element and give it a temperature bump back up to 90 or so. It doesn't hold it by itself in my basement and will drop down to 85 or so by morning. Even lower as the ferment slows.
Don’t forget to step feed for the first 3 days (I use Fermax) & DO NOT mix your nutrients together with your lime. Add them separately at different times to prevent making yourself an ammonia cocktail.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

8Ball wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:47 pm Don’t forget to step feed for the first 3 days (I use Fermax) & DO NOT mix your nutrients together with your lime. Add them separately at different times to prevent making yourself an ammonia cocktail.
Will feed today, thanks.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

I screwed up today. Turned on heater and meant to heat for 10 min to get it from 87 back to 90 but forgot to set a timer so it was 160 before I realized it.

I'm just going to run it to see what I get. I could cool it and repitch yeast, but it will already be weird..
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

87 was fine. Don’t overthink it.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by MtRainier »

Right. But if not adding heat it would keep going down. 8)

The strip is happening now. I added another 100ml of terpenes. It started coming out at 45 percent and is really floral and nice. Very pleasant.

I am collecting in the same stainless vessel to combine with my previous strip I've been hanging on to for a few weeks and may regret combining for the spirit run given how unique this is. Way different from a sugar wash for instance.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by 8Ball »

MtRainier wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:17 am Right. But if not adding heat it would keep going down. 8)
That is what it is supposed to do as it starts to finish ….
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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