My agave spirit

[NZChris]

For cold smoking, my smoker uses a computer CPU fan in a can sucking on a copper bong charged with chips. It has lasted far longer than I expected it to.

To hot smoke chicken, fish, etc., I put chips on a small hot plate that has enough Watts to get the wood smoking, but barely enough Watts to get the smoker up to temperature. A bit of a balancing act, making do with what I can scrounge on the cheap, or free.

[pope]

I like that. I need to move to smoking soon but I've got to wrap a few other projects first.

Did my second agave stripping run last night, this time it was 8 gallons of wash with a decent amount of lees/sediment/yeast, plus all the agave fibers. I used steam and tested my steam injection setup at 10 psi for the first time, the higher temp did cut down on dilution of the wash but poor circulation of heat in the still led to stratification and poor yield. Still, I have a solid amount of low wines. They smell/taste significantly different from the 8 gallons of clear wash I scooped off the top of the fermenter and stripped with direct electric heat. I'm almost done with my 5-gal still build so I may run these two spirit runs separately.

I'm keeping the backset and I'm going to get a new ferment going with just the dark agave syrup and the terpenes, and then maybe use backset from that batch with a 100% crushed (not cooked at all like last time) mezcal. If anyone has a horse and a mill stone let me know.

[brat]

Pope when are you planning to do the spirit run? I need to go buy more agave in DTLA for a new batch. I want to try a single run a done. More raw flavors I would think.

[pope]

Yea I've been thinking about a one and done. Or a '1.5' as OtisT does with rum where you put about 10-15% wash by volume in with your low wines. I did that with my prickly pear brandy and got great flavor but don't have anything to compare it to. I've built a 5-gallon still and controller to run on 120v, as soon as I drill the last holes and finish getting it wired up, I'll clamp on my column and run the agave! I have white dog and prickly pear brandy in jars on my bench so I need to blend those and put them away, too. Too much going on over here!

[brat]

My recipe was 5 gallons of low wines and 3 gallons of fresh make I filled my boiler nearly to the top. And I still put all the fibers in a Muslin bag. I think all this add to the flavor. I ran one recipe through one plate with a packed column and a bit a reflux. I didn't really care for the flavor too much.

[pope]

I think your bag idea has a ton of merit. I was thinking I only had nylon but I could have easily tied them up in a cheesecloth ball and tied the ball to the column to keep them top and centered.

I put the fibers in loose and they were an absolute b*tch to get out of the still. The liquid drained through them and out the bottom port ok but they made a big fiberous mass & I had to invert the still body and pull it out little bits at a time. Plus they carried yeast and some other mucky fiber bits. But ultimately flavor is king and when I've run the w/ and w/o fiber/solids/yeast batches side by side I'll know what I like more.

[The Baker]

My recipe was 5 gallons of low wines and 3 gallons of fresh make I filled my boiler nearly to the top. And I still put all the fibers in a Muslim bag. I think all this add to the flavor. I ran one recipe through one plate with a packed column and a bit a reflux. I didn't really care for the flavor too much.

I think the dreaded auto-spell has got you.

Or would have a Jewish bag been better??

Geoff

[brat]

My recipe was 5 gallons of low wines and 3 gallons of fresh make I filled my boiler nearly to the top. And I still put all the fibers in a Muslim bag. I think all this add to the flavor. I ran one recipe through one plate with a packed column and a bit a reflux. I didn't really care for the flavor too much.

I think the dreaded auto-spell has got you.

Or would have a Jewish bag been better??

Geoff

Hahaha you're damn right lol I was typing at work. And I got a phone call lol. All fixed now lol.

[pope]

So it's been a while, got a little distracted and had a batch go south on me (open fermenter went from fermented to dry to funky to a dramatic volume loss, and there was very little alcohol left for me). Took a pH journey as I realized in my experience agave syrup ferments crash like crazy and stall, so I adjust at the 10-12 hour mark with calcium hydroxide now. Here's the best so far:

18# agave in a 12 gallon final volume with 40ml terpenes, three equal feedings of nutrient a start, 33% gravity drop, and 66% gravity drop. SG 1.058, FG was .994. Get quality agave syrup. The two tricks on top of this are 1) use 25% backset for your volume (from a previous batch of the same recipe), and 2) reduce final pH (mine was 3. down to like 2.8 with sulfuric acid (use safety precautions and start with ~1ml/gal of 98% sulfuric, adding the concentrated sulfuric to water with a 50:1 water:sulfuric ratio and then to the wash). Reflux for 1-2 hours before stripping. Day and night difference. I've had several batches of agave taste like tequila but haven't been able to get the aromas to come out. This is still a work in progress but it's an improvement. I need to get my final ph measurements on ex-still low wine waste and the final spirit, I have the numbers on the acidified backset and the low wines somewhere but its on paper in the shop and I need to transpose to my records. I did an a/b with the esterification process so I'll be able to have a few finished bottles sit around for the next 5-6 weeks and then do a proper side by side comparison. Anything that speeds esterification or maturation I always feel needs some time and a/b testing to make sure you're actually getting different results, and not just getting results faster. Fischer-speier esterification is a more proven process than rapid aging, so I expect the final results will be substantially different (qualitatively, unknown if they'll be quantitatively different but I'm not shelling out $300 to send samples of both to a lab).

Next experiment is to take 20% of the next batch (same as above), and ferment it with Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Belgian Sour Blend, blend both parts back together post-fermentation and treat the same for stripping, and compare the results.

[pope]

*Also about the stalling, I ferment with a tequila yeast successfully around an 81-83 degree range. Hotter would be better but I'm still working on a new heating control system. I fermented about 50% of my gravity down successfully in 4 days, the ferment then stalled when my pH dropped below 4.0 to 3.82, and eventually to 3.72. Once it was back up the slope of my gravity drop went back to normal until it was dry. I think 3.8 is the low end for this yeast and 3.7 switches it off completely, next batch I'll be buffering more aggressively with a blend of calcium and potassium carbonates to try and stay at 4.0.

[StillNoIdea]

*Also about the stalling, I ferment with a tequila yeast successfully around an 81-83 degree range. Hotter would be better but I'm still working on a new heating control system. I fermented about 50% of my gravity down successfully in 4 days, the ferment then stalled when my pH dropped below 4.0 to 3.82, and eventually to 3.72. Once it was back up the slope of my gravity drop went back to normal until it was dry. I think 3.8 is the low end for this yeast and 3.7 switches it off completely, next batch I'll be buffering more aggressively with a blend of calcium and potassium carbonates to try and stay at 4.0.

Thanks for all the info you have shared pope! I am currently fermenting an agave wash myself. Not sure I can get a hold of the fibers etc. but I am trying to come up with something with just the syrup. With regards to your heating issue. I have been using this heating pad https://amzn.to/2ubx292 and I have been able to hold 6 gallons at 86f. Not expensive and it does not have an auto-shutoff.

[StillNoIdea]

*Also about the stalling, I ferment with a tequila yeast successfully around an 81-83 degree range. Hotter would be better but I'm still working on a new heating control system. I fermented about 50% of my gravity down successfully in 4 days, the ferment then stalled when my pH dropped below 4.0 to 3.82, and eventually to 3.72. Once it was back up the slope of my gravity drop went back to normal until it was dry. I think 3.8 is the low end for this yeast and 3.7 switches it off completely, next batch I'll be buffering more aggressively with a blend of calcium and potassium carbonates to try and stay at 4.0.

At your advice i have been adjusting the pH daily with calcium bicarbonate.. You are 100% correct it drops rapidly. I have been taking readings and adding about 1/2 tsp every night to keep it in the 4.0 range. and also some DAP about every 3 days. It has dropped from 1.052 down to 1.025 in 3.5 days.. it is going slow but steady. I am using the safteq blue yeast.

[pope]

Nice! StillerBoy gave me some advice and I have some external heat bands I'm going to try. Glad my info helped. I don't think you need to adjust daily if you get ahead of it, you can raise the pH as high as like 4.5 and let it come back down, I think one solid adjustment early in the ferment could get it set for the rest of the ferment. Starting high can cause other fermentation issues which is why I wait until its dropped some to fix it.

I have an untested hunch that safteq blue and lallemand distillamax TQ are the same thing. Mine is also very slow and steady, even without stalls I think the last batch would've taken 6-7 days, but my gravity readings chart as a dead-straight slope from SG to FG, there's no fast or slow fermentation period.

[pope]

Very qualitative update on my agave experiments - I had about 25# left of the 'fresh mezcal' from the LA produce market, I decided I needed to clear up fridge and freezer space and went for a 100% fresh mezcal, on-the-pulp ferment. Started at 12 brix with a tequila yeast (lallemand distilamax tq), still fermenting BUT I went to punch down the cap this morning and it really has a rich mezcal aroma - not smoke, but everything else you would expect in a mezcal. I'm sure it will be smoky when it's done but I had to post because the aroma is really encouraging. Unfortunately if my numbers pan out, at $2.50/# the finished bottles will end up having cost $8-12 each, or maybe even a little more. Still a good price if it tastes top shelf; TBD.

[brat]

So finally got around to bottling this agave spirit up. I got to say this stuff came out amazing. My family and I are from Jalisco and everyone who's tasted it agrees that its very good. I really don't think you can make a good agave spirit without the actual agave. What I did before bottling I did one more recipe with about 10 lbs of agave and enough agave nectar to get my starting gravity to 1.055. This is for 6.5 gallons worth. After it finished fermenting at .999 I added my feints and did the run. This I blended with my first batch which was sitting on oak since Sept of 2019. The final flavor is smooth and smoky which fades and leaves a good tequila flavor.

[NZChris]

Congratulations. It's nice when a plan comes together.

[brat]

Congratulations. It's nice when a plan comes together.

Thanks NzChris,
I can't wait to get started on a new batch. All my family members that taste it want a bottle. I tell them to get me more materials and I'll make some more.

[pope]

Much belated congrats man! I finally finished my own 100% mezcal from downtown, wouldn't have had the opportunity or the motivation without your tips, input and this thread to keep at it. Cheers!

[bluefish_dist]

Good job. Agave was the toughest sugar for me to figure out fermentation. Feeding and ph seemed to be the ticket to get the yeast to finish.

[crispy_eels]

I have an agave Pina, ready to roast, thoughts on how to grind and extract juice? Brat, did you age that on new oak, or just very lightly toasted. You guys talk about smokey flavor, I've read the smoky flavors come from fermenting in charred oak barrels. Did you guys add in charred oak during the fermentation? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[cob]

did you read this entire thread?

[brat]

I have an agave Pina, ready to roast, thoughts on how to grind and extract juice? Brat, did you age that on new oak, or just very lightly toasted. You guys talk about smokey flavor, I've read the smoky flavors come from fermenting in charred oak barrels. Did you guys add in charred oak during the fermentation? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

I aged it on oak that I previously used for a whiskey. The smoky flavor comes from the way the agave is cooked. I just ferment in plastic buckets.

[TDick]

I'm not interested in trying an agave from scratch, but I got a newsletter from BSG today that included this.
They sell Blue Agave Syrup:
The American Agave Spirit

[seabass]

That's interesting. I wonder what the minimum purchase amount would be.

[bluefish_dist]

I have used the syrup from BSG. Makes a good drop. Not cheap.

[seabass]

Looks like they only ship to businesses. Anyone in the pnw want to do a group buy?

[bluefish_dist]

Honestly I could buy syrup from Costco for the same price. I have not tried any of the Costco syrup to see how it compares.

[seabass]

Good to know. Probably not worth the effort in that case. Thanks for the info.

[brat]

Try 21 missions agave. I hear their stuff is really good.

[pope]

Honestly I could buy syrup from Costco for the same price. I have not tried any of the Costco syrup to see how it compares.

I don't know yet about BSG or Costco syrup but from conversations with the guy at 21 Missions my understanding is that sweetener and distillation agave products are very different. If the order MOQ's are reasonable I'm going to give BSG's products a try when my stock of agave spirit gets low.