My agave spirit

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RedwoodHillBilly

Re: My agave spirit

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

brat wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:12 pm Try 21 missions agave. I hear their stuff is really good.
FWIW, I saw this post on the ADI forum.
http://adiforums.com/topic/11979-21-mis ... ve-beware/
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I chatted with someone at 21 Missions about their various products and AF protocols for a good 30 min. Seemed very knowledgeable. Ended up ordering 2x 5gallon buckets of their Organic Raw Agave, Org-agave-nectar-black , dark-amber 55 and a bottle of their Raw Agave Terpenes 3 Lbs. agave-terpenes.

Cost me a couple hundred bucks shipped and I’ll do it again. Always interested in experiences and other suppliers too.

Cheers!
Jonny

Edit:
I’ll add that I initially ordered a different agave product via their web form at first and they called me to confirm that’s what I wanted.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:26 pm I chatted with someone at 21 Missions about their various products and AF protocols for a good 30 min. Seemed very knowledgeable. Ended up ordering 2x 5gallon buckets of their Organic Raw Agave, Org-agave-nectar-black , dark-amber 55 and a bottle of their Raw Agave Terpenes 3 Lbs. agave-terpenes.
Cost me a couple hundred bucks shipped and I’ll do it again. Always interested in experiences and other suppliers too.
Cheers!
Jonny
I have a batch I just started based on your other post Jonny. I used the terpenes from 21 missions but had gotten a good deal on 4 gallons of the Wholesome Organic Blue Agave at Restaurant depot so using that with it. The guy at 21 missions was very helpful- I pestered him a bit about exact ratio's etc. He mentioned that additional terpenes can be added for the spirit run or even after when putting it up for aging. Ever try that? I am planning to put the same dose I put into the wash into the boiler for the spirit run.

Fermenting now, smells good! Holding it at 85f with SafTeq Blue yeast. I am planning to make half silver, then the other half aged on oak for a bit to see how the flavors develop.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

RedwoodHillBilly wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:34 pm
brat wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:12 pm Try 21 missions agave. I hear their stuff is really good.
FWIW, I saw this post on the ADI forum.
http://adiforums.com/topic/11979-21-mis ... ve-beware/
I have spent a few cumulative hours on the phone with the guy, I honestly had a hard time getting him to stop sharing knowledge of agave. I just bought totes on his site and paid for shipping through the site, no problem. Only ever called to ask questions and my impression was he was one of the friendlier vendors I've ever dealt with, so this really surprises me.
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Re: My agave spirit

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StuNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:06 pm He mentioned that additional terpenes can be added for the spirit run or even after when putting it up for aging. Ever try that? I am planning to put the same dose I put into the wash into the boiler for the spirit run.
Love that idea, I'll have to try the same!
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by brat »

Well Pope convinced me to buy some 21 missions agave nectar. And to use it as a stand alone in a batch. So am going to do a batch with pure agave nectar and another one with both the agave nectar and the agave plant. I can't wait to compare both. Am glad that we have enough interest in this subject to keep this thread going.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

Yea man! For you but also others who read this later - just make sure to get the right kind (the raw agave dark has treated me well) - they carry like a dozen or more different types and some are specifically made as sweeteners and don't have the same inulin content. Look for the kinds on this page:

https://www.21missionsagave.com/beermeadwine.html

Also keep in mind the 'black' and 'terpenes' are adjuncts and I know from personal experience that too much of either will make fermentation impossible.

And +1 on pursuing the agave category seriously, I always felt like the attitude on the forum was 'agave is impossible because we can't get the plants', and now three sources have been covered on this thread and its been proven that mezcal and tequila identical products can be made at home.
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by cowboy98 »

Thanks Pope and Brat,

I'm a new brewer and I have been wanting to try making a Blue Agave Wash.
I think I will try simple sugar wash first, this one my second brew.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by brat »

cowboy98 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:11 pm Thanks Pope and Brat,

I'm a new brewer and I have been wanting to try making a Blue Agave Wash.
I think I will try simple sugar wash first, this one my second brew.
Let me know how it goes!!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

Well, I am sipping the results of my first batch tonight! Came out to 67abv after blending the results of the spirit run. Kept some heads and some tails in the final blend. Diluted to 62% for aging. 2qt on second use oak stave sticks, 2qt for drinking white. I did a taste test with store bought bottle of 100% blue agave I had leftover from some margarita mixing and I have to say this is pretty darn close. Certainly not a top shelf tequila with the complex floral and citrus notes- but a real solid tequila taste nonetheless. I believe a hint of heads is necessary to get the real flavor profile. It is a great sipping tequila, smooth and flavorful. Drinking it neat at the moment. Has a surprisingly smooth taste and mouth feel for a white spirit.

Details:
I used the Wholesome Organic Blue Agave I picked up at Restaurant depot, and the terpenes from 21 missions at recommended dose. I also added the same dose to the low wines for the spirit run. Fermentation ph crashed after 24 hours, but some oyster shells and Calcium Carbonate brought it back and it stayed stable for the rest of the ferment- oyster shells were gone when it was done so assuming that was key. Was strangely consistent, sg would drop 5 points or so a day. Ran almost 2 weeks (at 85f) but finished just at 1.000. I used SafTeq Blue yeast.
Great stuff- appreciate all the experimentation you all have done here for us all to learn from. This will be a regular part of my routine going forward- although probably just summer stillin since I don't think I could hold 85f in the winter in my basement!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

Congrats! I feel there's a lot of tequila character in/near tails too (depends how you look at tails). You can cut a little harsh for white and the flavor will mellow over the first 5ish weeks resting. Your fermentation sounds just like mine have been, slow and steady. Did you do any feeding during fermentation? Spacing feeding out at start and then 33% drop points for three total feedings can help it plod along. Next time if you splurge on 21 Missions syrup (try the distilling dark syrup), I'd be curious to know if you find more of those complex floral and citrus notes!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

Thanks! Yeah, I will go for the 21 missions syrup next and see how it differs. I added DAP initially but didn't feed anymore after that. I filed a two quart jar with white and had enough left over to fill a bottle to drink for now. Will let the white age a bit in the jar to see if it changes. Will also compare to the jar aging with oak. Very encouraged by first attempts- I think it is possible with more refinement to end up with a great tequila with the syrups.
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Re: My agave spirit

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StuNY wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:14 pm Thanks! Yeah, I will go for the 21 missions syrup next and see how it differs. I added DAP initially but didn't feed anymore after that. I filed a two quart jar with white and had enough left over to fill a bottle to drink for now. Will let the white age a bit in the jar to see if it changes. Will also compare to the jar aging with oak. Very encouraged by first attempts- I think it is possible with more refinement to end up with a great tequila with the syrups.
So what's the flavor of dap syrup spirit comparable to? Am about to bite the bullet and buy a bunch of agave nectar for a all nectar spirit. Pope gave me some great encouragement about the stuff. Am going add some oysters shells to help with the pH. I've never had any issues with pH in all my years of brewing and distilling. But I don't want to take any chances.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

"Dap syrup"? You mean adding the DAP? They syrup itself had a sweet fruity smell, the fermenting wash was even more fragrant- not like my usual washes. The final color was kind of a bright orange, and it had a slight orange peel taste to it. House smelled nice while it fermented away!
Having margaritas with it now with the family- really does taste exactly right in this use. Very happy with it! Terpenes must be the reason for the great taste. Hard to imagine the syrup alone brought forth those flavors.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by Cabron99 »

DAP= Diamonium phosphate, I think.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by brat »

Yeah am sorry I meant to write the all agave syrup with DAP added. I was a bit weary about doing an all agave nectar batch. But I am going to give it a shot.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

LOL Brat I will keep telling you to pull the trigger til it happens. Raw dark syrup + terpenes + nutrient + tequila yeast with two additional nutrient feedings will give you a great tequila wash, I swear, haha!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

Everyone should get a batch going today- after all it is "National Tequila Day"!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by cowboy98 »

I purchased 21 missions Dark agave, and I spoke to one of the guys that works there he told me to use a 8 to 1 ratio. I take that to mean 8 gallons of water to 1 gallon of dark Agave. He also mentioned that I should not let the fermented wash sit for too long for distilling. I don't know if that help anyone but it a bit of information.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by Hambone »

Any concensus on amount of terpenes to use? I'm interested in doing this...

I appreciate cowboy's input, but I'm interested in other experiences (higher or lower than "recommended dosage")
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

Hambone wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:03 pm Any concensus on amount of terpenes to use? I'm interested in doing this...

I appreciate cowboy's input, but I'm interested in other experiences (higher or lower than "recommended dosage")
I used the recommended dose. When I asked the guy there about putting a little more to boost the flavor he told me pretty strongly NOT to do that. Fermentation problems apparently. He was the one though that said to put some into the still for the spirit run, and even to put a little into the final product for aging! I didn't end up putting it in the aging spirit though. Guy seems to be pretty knowledgeable.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by brat »

Am really interested in the results of adding terpenes to the spirit run. When someone tries it if it's before me. I would love to hear tasting notes.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

I ran it in the spirit run (same dose as in the wash) but I don't have a comparison- it was my first run. I don't plan to run a batch without it going forward so someone else hopefully can do a comparison. I am planning to run another batch soon while it is hot here! Really need to maintain 85f or so during fermentation. I am thinking of doubling up the dose in the wash just to see how it differs. The fermentation went fine on my first batch so willing to risk it. Besides, I have a big bottle of Terpenes now haha!
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

Stuny either I’ve got to do a batch like yours or vice versa so we can report back on adding or not adding terpenes to the still. Sounds like it’s got to be me. Too much terpenes in the ferment though will cause the yeast to struggle I think.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

pope wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:53 am ....Too much terpenes in the ferment though will cause the yeast to struggle I think.
Yeah, that is what the guy at 21 missions said. Maybe i will up it 50% from recommended dose and see how it does... If anyone ever finds out exactly what the Terpenes are please let me know. Assuming it is leftovers from filtering the syrup but no idea really.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by Cabron99 »

You guys are makin me drool. Gotta try this. I'm paying close attention now.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by cowboy98 »

I believe that Terpenes are from the leaves of the Agave plant, as opposed to the heart of the agave. From what I have read the ratio of dark is 8 gallons water to 1 gallon dark also add in 16 oz terpenes, adjust ph with lemon juice, use distilled water, turbo yeast, The biggest issue is not having enough water for the yeast to do their job so fermentation stops. I am thinking of adding 15% more water to my wash so I don't have the yeast competing for water and unable to eat all the fruitose. I should have my equipment by mid August and buy September be ready to do my first run. Again I hope this helps, I real new to this but have been researching as much as possible. If someone could check my findings and comment I would appreciate it.
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Re: My agave spirit

Post by StuNY »

Careful! The recommended terpenes dose for making spirits from their website and confirmed over the phone is:
0.001% Agave Spirits Wash. ~20 ml per 5-gallon Wash for Agave Spirits. Guy really stresses not to use any more than that.
So more like 40ml (1.35oz) for your 9 gallons
This is the dose I used with good result. And I put the same dose in the boiler with the low wines for the spirit run.
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Re: My agave spirit

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Re: My agave spirit

Post by pope »

Easy there cowboy, like Stuny said it's WAY WAY less than 16 oz in a 9-gallon total volume fermentation. More like 30-50mL max. 16 oz and it'll never bubble once. Also beware of the 'black' agave syrup from 21 missions and treat it just like terpenes, I tried to use too much and just made a muck pit. I also recommend trying a tequila yeast.
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