Concord Brandy

[Honest_Liberty]

Greetings folks!

Appalachia runs deep in my blood as does my Yugoslavian/Polish heritage. I come from a long line of hard working, alcohol making slavs. Maybe that is why I have always loved concord wine, despite what all the wine snobs out there say. It has always worked for my family and it certainly works for me.

I have been tinkering with how can I make affordable, good brandy outside of harvest season, without adding excess sugar...and then I discovered Costco 100% concord grape juice, NOT from concentrate, no added nasties!

(2) 96oz bottles, or 192oz for $5.99, so a 12 gallon wash will run about $50. Maybe not the cheapest option but since this sits at 8.5% potential alcohol I won't add sugar. But I need to change my yeast to a more dedicated wine yeast. Recommendations appreciated.

I'm going to run in my pot still once. My question though is whether I should add the feignts from the previous run back into each new run and whether I can add fresh juice to the old yeast bed. I would like to end up with 5 gallons at 55% for aging on oak after enough runs. I'm estimating $250 to make 5 gallons at 55%, which sounds reasonable enough for me to bulk age and keep as a high quality homemade brandy for years to come.

[StillerBoy]

Here's a link on best yeast for fruit brandy, from our own in house expert " cranky"..
viewtopic.php?t=60985

Mars

[Honest_Liberty]

thank you, that is a great resource!

[NZChris]

If was planning on spending $250 on ingredients for any grape spirit, I wouldn't be running it once through a pot still. The commercial pot distillers who have been doing this for a long time don't do one run and done instead of doubles because they are stupid and need re-educating from forums and YouTube.

[cranky]

I have to agree with Chris, I seldom do single runs.

As far as yeast I don't know what your experience is with brandy making so you may need to go through a learning process with any fruit. Each fruit is different. I always recommend 1118 for learning on because it doesn't add or take away anything but if I were going to make something to age in a barrel I'd go with 1122. The reason for this is first it adds fruity esters, which I like and second it is a cold weather yeast and I live in a cold weather area and we are going into winter. The problem with 1122 is it adds fruity esters which makes cuts more difficult.

[Honest_Liberty]

I appreciate the input. You know, it is really frustrating me that I'm making decisions on information I thought I digested, but turns out I was completely opposite of what was said. I seriously can't understand why in the heck I'm tripping over myself. I wonder whether I'm reading too much and confusing myself, instead of having the threads up when I make decisions.

I recall reading this thread and swear to myself up and down I read about single runs on a pot still...
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=49916... then it is specifically mentioned NOT to do that.

then, you folks come here and remind me that I'm off base. I go re-read it and sure enough.... I'm 180 degrees INCORRECT! Ugh.
Paulinka sure is correct about the net day runs. good grief.

Thanks again.

[cayars]

I just bottled some wine made from Kirkland Signature 100% Concord Grape Juice (I think this might be the juice you are talking about) a couple of months ago. I was shooting for a decent low cost white wine and if it didn't turn out good, would become brandy.

I split the batch and used two different yeasts to see what the difference would be. I used Lalvin 1116 and 1118. 1116 had more body and tasted better to me (more esters), while the 1118 was "flatter" but still fine. I mixed them together and kept them as wine and eventually bottled them.

I originally wanted to use 71B & D47 (both likely better) but I didn't have them at the time so I used what I had. I'm trying these two in the next batch I make.

Considering you plan on making so much, why not break it up into smaller batches and test a couple of different wine yeasts to see what you like best? You won't go wrong trying any yeast mentioned in this thread.

While I did not distill this batch I have no reason to think it wouldn't have made a good brandy.
BTW, my potential ABV came out to 8.7% and I didn't add any sugar.

[Honest_Liberty]

Cayars, thank you. My hydrometer read 8.5 so send fairly consistent.

I will indeed try the 1116, thank you.
I have 6 gallons of 18% I made from the Costco stuff, and I really like it, but it's handover Central.
I sanitized a bunch of 4L jugs and have it sitting up in my garage. There is a bite in Concord wine that isn't great but I've become accustomed to it. Do you pick that up with the 1116?

[cayars]

Nothing I'd call a bite or anything like that in my bottled wine but I added a smidge of sugar syrup. Dad likes sweet wines (coming around) and I prefer dry wines so I compromised a small amount. It had what I'd call a "tart/dry" like flavor before the very small amount of syrup was added. Could that be what you call a bite?

On the yeast front, I'd try 71B or D47 if you can, as I think they might be better than 1116 for making brandy as it will likely be a bit more flavorful.

BTW, I didn't mention but we did a couple of 3/4 gallon size batches with 96oz bottles from a few brands to see which one to use. We tried Welch's, Kedem, Kirkland and the Shoprite generic brand. I think most besides the Kirkland was made from concentrate. Kirkland for us came out on top.

I buy pickles in gallon size jars to have the glassware. I drill holes in the lids to be able to put an airlock in them. They make great mini ferment vessels for testing things like this. I scale back nutrients and yeast (ie about 5 grams) for these test batches. From juice to mashed fruits, a small mini batch is nice for testing.

[Honest_Liberty]

That's cool. I have a bunch of 4L Carlo Rossi jugs. I'm currently finishing a juice box wine with brown sugar, because I have giving my kids that garbage and it's been sitting in the pantry for a year. I'll clear it, let it sit for 2 months, and take the jug to my hunting camp for emergency alcohol.

I love Costco, but it's hit and miss. They have amazing coffee out here, pinon roast from New Mexico. Literally the cheapest and simultaneously best coffee I've ever had. Comes in under $4/lb. Friggin delicious.

Their Kirkland spirits are all trash, save for the 20 year scotch. That's actually a solid value

[Honest_Liberty]

So, I decided to oak what I had at 55% in the jug. I realized it was a combo of the original wine plus a rerun of the 1gallon of oaked product on burr oak.

I added a few pieces of 380F toasted oak heartwood and 400F toasted, 2/3rds respectively, with only one piece each being charred lightly. I wish I could fast forward a few months to get an idea of where it will go, but....patience

[NZChris]

I use this to test my oaking experiments.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=55301

[Honest_Liberty]

Holy crap! The grape flavor is extremely pronounced. I can't believe how much the aroma and flavor has carried through

[NZChris]

I hope that's a good thing. I've never tasted Concord.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I hope that's a good thing. I've never tasted Concord.

I would think that if you're inclined to run grapes through a still, getting grape flavor is always a win. If you don't like Concord grapes, what would possess you to want to make a brandy with them?

[The Baker]

I hope that's a good thing. I've never tasted Concord.

I would think that if you're inclined to run grapes through a still, getting grape flavor is always a win. If you don't like Concord grapes, what would possess you to want to make a brandy with them?

I believe that the 'wine' used in France to produce brandy is quite unpalatable as just a wine.

Geoff

[NZChris]

After several tries, I hadn't managed to make decent wine out of the Black Hamburg table grapes that came with the property, so I tried making a brandy and it was good enough that I've been doing it every year since.

[Grappa-Gringo]

Concord grapes are growing at the end of the yard at my place .... My dad called them "uva Americana"..... "American grapes"...lol not great for wine, more of a table grape... Great for running through the still though!!!

[rubberduck71]

Nothing I'd call a bite or anything like that in my bottled wine but I added a smidge of sugar syrup. Dad likes sweet wines (coming around) and I prefer dry wines so I compromised a small amount. It had what I'd call a "tart/dry" like flavor before the very small amount of syrup was added. Could that be what you call a bite?

On the yeast front, I'd try 71B or D47 if you can, as I think they might be better than 1116 for making brandy as it will likely be a bit more flavorful.

BTW, I didn't mention but we did a couple of 3/4 gallon size batches with 96oz bottles from a few brands to see which one to use. We tried Welch's, Kedem, Kirkland and the Shoprite generic brand. I think most besides the Kirkland was made from concentrate. Kirkland for us came out on top.

I buy pickles in gallon size jars to have the glassware. I drill holes in the lids to be able to put an airlock in them. They make great mini ferment vessels for testing things like this. I scale back nutrients and yeast (ie about 5 grams) for these test batches. From juice to mashed fruits, a small mini batch is nice for testing.

Hmmm... Shoprite, eh? Methinks we are in the same region of the country!

Has anyone used Nottingham ale yeast with grape juice? It's excellent with apple juice conversion to cider.

[Honest_Liberty]

So I combined two and a half gallons of 18% chapitalized Concord wine I made with 3 gallons of my homemade Mead that I didn't like. I only ran once cuz I didn't have enough so I ran it really really slow. I've got just over a half gallon at 50% with slightly loose cuts for maximizing flavor.

This is absolutely fantastic and I know next time I will skip the sugar and use only raw grape juice even though the yield will be lower and I'll just make 5 gallons. I don't think the price is that much difference and the quality would be better.

for the price of the juice concentrate when it's available at Costco I think this makes a really fine drink. However I'm going to have access to quite a large amount of concord grapes next season and I will be making everything for the wine myself.

I happen to really enjoy the wine that's made from Concord grapes. I call it dirty b*tch

[Honest_Liberty]

Concord grapes are growing at the end of the yard at my place .... My dad called them "uva Americana"..... "American grapes"...lol not great for wine, more of a table grape... Great for running through the still though!!!

So, absolutely they are great through the still. Everyone is surprised at the grape aroma.

I happen to be the rare bird that absolutely loves concorde wine. It's quite incredible is you ameliorate it. Makes a wonderfully light blush wine, and if left dry you can make something akin to Vihno verde with just a touch of classic purple grape flavor... Just a touch.

It's basically an incredible summer wine that's great by June if you harvest your own in mid to late September

[Honest_Liberty]

I think many people are really missing out on an almost free, superb Brandy with concord grapes. It's got such a wonderful Brandy sweetness and the oak really shines.

Of all my oaked spirits, I think the Brandy benefits the best from oak. It pulls a different mouth feel, the whole experience is such a wonderful, creamy profile with a strong aroma of grape.

I find it to be one of the best spirits I've made and also the cheapest. Especially if you have access to say least 100lbs, then you don't need to add sugar. I can't wait until next season to harvest all the spots in the front range that I have access to

[StillerBoy]

Thanks for the update HL..

And glad its turning well for you.. hoping you have been keeping a log of your endeavors..

Mars

[Honest_Liberty]

It's pretty straight forward. I just harvest the grapes, use a red star red wine yeast, and add enough sugar to 10%.

Concord typical produces 6-7% ABV which, henceforth, is all I will use. This stuff grows like wildfire all over the United States. I typically put 2 gallons aside for wine and after 6 months is a dandy.

I'm not a log kinda guy. However, I think I'm doing a disservice. This could be a tried and true if I really honed it in

[SpiritOf76]

First concord brandy attempt. I have 7.5 gal concord grape juice fermenting with a hodgepodge of red star wine yeast i had laying around.

Day 2 developed a very sulphery aroma. Day 3 that aroma disappeared. Day 4 now it's back, stronger than ever.

I wondered if your concord wash developed any sulpher smells? Or is that because of the sulfates they add in the bottling.

As for logs - unless you live in a cool state like Missouri, or a cool country like NZ, learn from Capone's accountant: best write your logs in code. Or encrypt them.

[NZChris]

Day 2 developed a very sulphery aroma. Day 3 that aroma disappeared. Day 4 now it's back, stronger than ever.

I've never run a brandy that had so much Potassium metabisulphite in it that you could smell it. If you don't have a copper still and condenser, you might be out of luck even if you add copper to the boiler. If you are hoping to do a single distillation, I really don't like your chances of getting away with it. A few years ago, a member posted a method of getting rid of it, but I've never needed to try it to check that it works.

I wish you good luck.

[SpiritOf76]

[/quote]
I've never run a brandy that had so much Potassium metabisulphite in it that you could smell it. If you don't have a copper still and condenser, you might be out of luck even if you add copper to the boiler. If you are hoping to do a single distillation, I really don't like your chances of getting away with it. A few years ago, a member posted a method of getting rid of it, but I've never needed to try it to check that it works.

I wish you good luck.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info, Chris. I'm hoping it's the wine yeasts and not the sulphites. I just got my replacement DADY today (danged mice) and didn't have the patience (plus the wine yeast was just laying around).

The good news is, I got the juice for free. And with the "leftover" wine yeast this is what I like to call a "why the hell not."

Running a pot. 8 gal ss milk with 1 gal pure copper onion dome, copper lyne and copper leibig.

I plan to start out with clean copper, add a length of copper mesh to the lyne during the stripping run,

then clean the dome, lyne, condenser and mesh before the spririt run.

I've got a rum spirit run starting in about 30 minutes. I've been focused on that for the past year. (I didn't like rum until my own). Because it's not labor intensive and so gives me the opportunity to make more runs to get to know my rig, learn cuts and eventually blending. (Meanwhile, after only week on charred oak, toasted maple, toasted pecan and 1/4 of a vanilla bean it's better than anything I can buy and just gets better and better.)

So if this brandy works, cool. If not, I'll soak copper in the spirit, then run it until it's neutral and make a little odin's gin (another first for me). Or I'll toss it if that doesn't work. Either way, lots of learning, all part of the journey.

[SpiritOf76]

It worked out better than I could have hoped. Surprisingly grape-y. All I had handy was some toasted maple so I hope that works, too. I was tempted to leave it white, it had so much concordy grapeness - it was almost like a half-a$$ed eau de vie.

[Honest_Liberty]

It worked out better than I could have hoped. Surprisingly grape-y. All I had handy was some toasted maple so I hope that works, too. I was tempted to leave it white, it had so much concordy grapeness - it was almost like a half-a$$ed eau de vie.

I got sulphur originally when I made it in the must with all the skins. I've also made it from Kirkland concorde grape juice which is cheap enough.

I've since found a superb combination:
8# concorde grapes per gallon, enough honey to bring up the OG to your liking, which, I may take up to 10% this fall.
When I combined my concorde brandy with my underwhelming Mead, oh dear lord it's the best thing I've made yet.

Alligator Charred, toasted to 380°F oak sticks respond very well. Better than any spirit I've made thus far