Apple Varieties

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

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goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:26 am

snuffy how much one of them vacum thangs cost an you rekon itd work on any fruit.

snuffy
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by snuffy » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:36 am

Dunno about the cost, they are industrial size plants. These guys started it:

http://www.treetop.org/aboutUs/history.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Most bulk commercial fruit juice moves as concentrate these days. The import of New Zealand apple concentrate has pushed a lot of apple growers out of business here. Darned pesky Kiwis.
Time's a wasting!!!

goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:03 am

seen where in 76 they started blendin pear an apple grape an apple. hell i no some ole boys was doin that a long while befor that an callin it apple.

so im tole

muckanic
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by muckanic » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:03 pm

goose eye wrote:snuffy how much one of them vacum thangs cost an you rekon itd work on any fruit.
They cost next to nothing if you are capable of making up a vacuum still. This is essentially a standard still, but with a sealed collection vessel containing two inlets. One is for the condenser outlet, the other is a line to the vacuum pump. A cheap pump can be had by raiding an old fridge condenser (or maybe a spray painter), or pay the money for a dedicated, more powerful unit. There has been chat about this concept here before. Obviously, good seals around the still-head and other junctions are required.

Having said all that, I personally see limited application for making up fruit essences. Maybe as a means of flavouring neutral distillate, but otherwise you might just as well ferment the original fruit. There is a school of thought that says some important fruit flavours are discarded in the foreshots/heads, so I guess that is a justification for trying out unfermented essences. Where a vacuum still could potentially come in real handy, however, is as an alternative to double boilers. It in principle allows distillation on the pulp/grain at a low enough heat to avoid scorching.
Last edited by muckanic on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Dnderhead
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by Dnderhead » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:15 pm

I posted about one that sounded simple one pot inside of another inside pot was heated with what ever in it to be distilled ,the outside pot is used as a
condenser /collections the whole thing is under vacuum. it is used in making vitamins/essence etc. must work because it is being used commercially

glassman
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by glassman » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:50 pm

still hav'nt run the glass still i made a while back but it could be setup ez for vacuum. 20 L flask with ~ 4000watts max heat. throw out some ideas on how to extract essence and i'll add it to my list of things to try this fall and winter. also built an extration head for it. kind of like an overgrown soxhet extractor. gman

snuffy
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by snuffy » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:49 pm

In just a few minutes of mousing around the net, I found several references to apple essence extraction processes, patents, etc. The major component of artificial apple essence is amyl valerianate - so the real thing is probably mostly that or similar. Which in turn suggests that the reason the apple flavor diminishes during distillation is that it gets caught up in the tails. Which is odd because the apple aroma starts to appear near the end of the heads.

I think the Tree Top process is a way of preserving the flavor and not specifically an extraction process per se. The one research paper I found deals with solvent extraction and mentions liquid CO2 as the comparison to a variety of hydrocarbons. It looks like somebody was looking for a new process.

It occurs to me that somebody (*hint*) with access to a good research library could probably nail most of the info of what the important apple congeners are in a hour or so.

Since the initial question was about varieties, I'll ask to ask my sister for the complete list of what's in her orchard. I know Kingston Black, Jonagold and Carmine de Saniville (that's phonetic spelling.) The King apples were not very juicy, but my goodness they made the best cider. She's also got an heirloom tree that was a cutting from a tree planted by Johnny Appleseed. Who, by the way, got his seeds from cider mills. So much for trying to stick to the point. :?

My botany is at the level where I can usually distinguish between animal, mineral and vegetable. Though I seem to have good luck grafting.
Time's a wasting!!!

goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:36 pm

ole boys ben down the road of flaverin. all they found contain alcohol an is made for cookin.
they aint yet seen peach flaverin tastein like peach an clear. they seen that off yeller that
aint nowhere close used for makein candy an such but will cloud clear. aint seen none of apple.
seen sour apple seen green apple but they aint found none tastein close enough to get by.
any of yall ever found clear essence bein true to the fruit.

so im tole

snuffy
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by snuffy » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:24 pm

L D Carlson makes the stuff we've used. No off flavors. Smells and tastes like apples. Label says "natural wine flavor." No haze. Only takes a few drops per quart. It's very light, almost water-clear, slight yellow tint.

Wildlife Control Supplies have a wild variety of essences. They have wild apple essence, dunno anything about it, just that they have it. They also have beaver oil. (*pause three beats*) Dunno how they get that either.
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partonken
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apples for cider

Post by partonken » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:42 pm

ive been in apples for awhile, and when you make cider you want a good blend with the right acid , and sugar.
In the fall we would mix delicious(high in sugar, low in acid meaning not very much) and macintosh which were very high in acid and lower in sugar content. Mix the two together in the right ratio , and voila!!

myles
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by myles » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:32 am

Punkin if you got MM106 rootstocks you should be OK. Its normaly used for half standard trees. I put in about 20 of them a few years ago but went for older varieties of apples. Typicaly they will grow to 12 foot wide and 10 foot tall, and produce about 50lbs each when mature.

They are rated as too strong for espaliers unless you have poor soil, but all that means is that you might get bigger than normal espalliers on good soil and may need to add another tier or two.

If you want to boost your varieties you could add in some single stem cordons. They only take up 2 foot of fenceline each. I would put in 1 or 2 crab apples also. They are universal polinators and the fruit although small, improves the cider flavour a lot. If you like it add in a quince too, it has a very perfumed flavour that works well in combination with the apple.

punkin
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by punkin » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:09 am

Thanks Myles, the width of the esp is restricted by my steel storage rack being in the centre of the structure i'm growing the two trees on, so they ony have about twelve or fifteen foot of width, but i'm not restricted as to height, it's up against a side fence.

goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:18 am

in the sumer can you put a hamer down in the sun an it be to hot to pick up. if so aint you
worryed bout scaldin em.

punkin
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by punkin » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:54 am

I've never grown apples before Goose, so i don't know what i should be worried about.

I bought the trees at the nursery here, so i can only assume they'll be suited to the climate. do you mean i should cover them with shade cloth in the summer? They seem to be doing ok atm and we're going through a heat wave here...40C and you can't pick up a bolt, let alone a hammer. I am training them onto stainless balustrading wire.

goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:26 pm

just thought you wrote you was tiein em to a steel fraim. see you putin on wire now.
round here when spring is breakin an sap risein an it still cold at nite then get hot durein day you can get sun scald on the trunks. some folks use to use white paint an paint the trunks an some put granuler insectides in the paint an mix it up.

so im tole

punkin
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by punkin » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:39 pm

goose eye wrote:just thought you wrote you was tiein em to a steel fraim. see you putin on wire now.
round here when spring is breakin an sap risein an it still cold at nite then get hot durein day you can get sun scald on the trunks. some folks use to use white paint an paint the trunks an some put granuler insectides in the paint an mix it up.

so im tole
Sure mate, i got ya now. 1 tree is on balustrading wire (actually got some apples on it i'm excited) and the other one is on a steel frame, only 1/2 " rhs, it's painted green, very loosely tied, but i'll watch out for scalding...


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Monster Mash
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by Monster Mash » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:22 am

Good luck with your apples Punkin. I'll be checking in on how it goes. I read somewhere that it takes 22 lbs of apples to make a quart of apple brandy high on the goose eye.
PDA1 on a 19 gallon Whirlpool water heater. We bring good things to life.

schnell
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by schnell » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:19 pm

I find alot of the apple smell and flavor is in the heads. it's easy to throw away just with normal cuts.

With a small alambic I made several batches (1x) that I combined and then diluted to about 50% to age on toasted apple wood chips. Some batches had less heads removed and contributed a great deal of flavor. This blended apple brandy was delicious when diluted to 40% after aging to a nice color.

Apples produce a great deal of methanol unfortunately. More than almost any other fruit. I believe Tony's site has a discussion of the flavor and heads overlap problem with apple spirits. A wee bit won't be so bad, but the better it tastes the more moderate one should be drinking it.

It is an artistic talent to get enough flavor without getting to much headache in the bottle too.

But, Is there anything better than good apple brandy?

Anything?

Ugly

Re: Apple Varieties

Post by Ugly » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:42 pm

schnell wrote:
But, Is there anything better than good apple brandy?

Anything?
Yes there is but Ms Ugly don't appreciate kiss n tell.

Thanks for the thoughts on this, I'm in the process of screwing around with a big bunch of apples, I hope to put down ten litres in the next month so I've been gathering up ideas and know how.

punkin
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by punkin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:43 am

schnell wrote:I find alot of the apple smell and flavor is in the heads. it's easy to throw away just with normal cuts.

With a small alambic I made several batches (1x) that I combined and then diluted to about 50% to age on toasted apple wood chips. Some batches had less heads removed and contributed a great deal of flavor. This blended apple brandy was delicious when diluted to 40% after aging to a nice color.

Apples produce a great deal of methanol unfortunately. More than almost any other fruit. I believe Tony's site has a discussion of the flavor and heads overlap problem with apple spirits. A wee bit won't be so bad, but the better it tastes the more moderate one should be drinking it.

It is an artistic talent to get enough flavor without getting to much headache in the bottle too.

But, Is there anything better than good apple brandy?

Anything?

Nifty little piece of info there mate, will be going in the memory bank for sure.

goose eye
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Re: Apple Varieties

Post by goose eye » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:08 am

schnell is there anythang better?
yup the the sounds an smells an the sights of every charge. catchin the whif of likker comein on before it do. the sound of the fire the sound of likker runin in your likker catch the first light breakin the dark the fog liftin an givin the chill down you spine when it looks like the law out the corner of your eye walkin up on you the deafnin sounds of quiet at times an other the deafnin sounds of night the shine of light on the bead held up just right. it the feelin of bein alive.
likker is just a bonus

thems that dont never ever feel them feelin while runin likker is truely missin out.

so im tole.
i aint never run no likker an aint gona in the future

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