Pasta water whiskey anyone?

[StillerBoy]

My column is a cm design, I set the cooling output temp at half way through the range that produces getting a drip drip spurt off take speed and take off a heads jar until I can't detect any heads (usually about 200 - 400ml).

You don't mention the column length or what the packing used is.. both effect the purity of the finished product..

How is the water system setup.. one water line or dual water line..

You don't mention the purity of your product.. what abv percentage is the product.. nor do you state the boiler load of your run where you remove only 200 - 400ml of heads nor mention the abv of the load.. I remove waymore heads than that on a boiler load of 7 gal at 38 % abv..

Adding feint to a neutral run is something I would not recommended doing.. the sugar bite or mouth burn is usually cause by heads..

Mars

[JakeB]

My column is a cm design, I set the cooling output temp at half way through the range that produces getting a drip drip spurt off take speed and take off a heads jar until I can't detect any heads (usually about 200 - 400ml).

You don't mention the column length or what the packing used is.. both effect the purity of the finished product..

How is the water system setup.. one water line or dual water line..

You don't mention the purity of your product.. what abv percentage is the product.. nor do you state the boiler load of your run where you remove only 200 - 400ml of heads nor mention the abv of the load.. I remove waymore heads than that on a boiler load of 7 gal at 38 % abv..

Adding feint to a neutral run is something I would not recommended doing.. the sugar bite or mouth burn is usually cause by heads..

Mars

Sugar bite may have been the wrong descriptor. I have heard the flavor profile of sugar only washes described that way on Stillit as well as other places on the net. It is not a mouth burn, much the contrary. I find the commercial stuff has much more of that prickly attacking the tounge feeling at 80 proof than mine does at 100 proof. It's more of a rounded flavour profile I seek.

I have little or no heads, despite the feints. The "heads" I refer to, some people would consider drinkable. The foreshots not so much. I compress my heads by balancing the column, then adjusting my cooling till it barely drips for 100ml, that part I consider foreshots, it is almost all methanol and goes straight down the sink. The next 200 - 400 ml has a decreasing methanol taste until I can not taste any. I check the taste every 25 - 50ml after about 150ml till it's gone. When I flame test the result I get a beautiful blue flame that can not be seen in the light.

As far as my column, I.have been avoiding discussion because it is a T500, there are plastic bits that are not supposed to be discussed here. Despite years of reading before doing something, I went with this because it was an easy way to start, box shows up, unpack and start distilling. Fits in my kitchen, then back in the box etc... I know it is not perfect, but I feel I have got some pretty good results, and can get better results with what I have.

I can upgrade to using just the boiler that fits on my kitchen counter with a 2" triclamp bulkhead. I have the bulkhead and in a couple months am going to get a 2" triclamp pot still head to use with it, though I have got some pretty good results doing DME whiskey by just pulling the packing out. A little after I get the 2" triclamp head, I can use what I have to set up a better VM setup by adding 24" spool with packing and a dephlegmator. Maybe in the future I might have the space to upgrade the boiler... but not right now.

As far as the offtake proof, that first 100ml foreshots comes off at 190 proof (cooling offtake temp 47.5 - 49.5c), the remainder comes off at 186 proof, till it comes off too slow to be worth it at a reflux rate that produces 186 (cooling offtake temp 62c), then I slow the cooling water down till cooling offtake goes to 70c and take off about 400ml of tails at around 140 proof before dumping my boiler. I do take cuts jars through the hearts in case of cooling temp hickups, a bucket with a pond pump supplying cooling water minimises unexpected cooling changes.

Boiler load is 20l of a possible 30l max. I make a 23l batch, some gets thrown down the sink while taking hydrometer readings, some is left behind with the trub after clearing. Some say you don't have to clear, but I find I get the best result with clear wash made using champaign yeast rather than bread yeast.

I have been throwing heads back in the next run as feints because as far as I can tell, it all gets refluxed out anyways. Hearts too heavy to come out until I reduce reflux rate, same with tails. Am I wrong about that? Would avoiding using feints on a reflux run improve results, even if same wash feints? There is a very notable change in flavor when I change the reflux rate, but regardless some of the flavor of the base sugar comes through throughout. I am thinking a partial mash, or some kind of grain adjunct will improve my results. I'm sure my upgrade path will improve results even more, but that has to wait for now.

[Zeotropic]

My column is a cm design, I set the cooling output temp at half way through the range that produces getting a drip drip spurt off take speed and take off a heads jar until I can't detect any heads (usually about 200 - 400ml).

You don't mention the column length or what the packing used is.. both effect the purity of the finished product..

How is the water system setup.. one water line or dual water line..

You don't mention the purity of your product.. what abv percentage is the product.. nor do you state the boiler load of your run where you remove only 200 - 400ml of heads nor mention the abv of the load.. I remove waymore heads than that on a boiler load of 7 gal at 38 % abv..

Adding feint to a neutral run is something I would not recommended doing.. the sugar bite or mouth burn is usually cause by heads..

Mars

Sugar bite may have been the wrong descriptor. I have heard the flavor profile of sugar only washes described that way on Stillit as well as other places on the net. It is not a mouth burn, much the contrary. I find the commercial stuff has much more of that prickly attacking the tounge feeling at 80 proof than mine does at 100 proof. It's more of a rounded flavour profile I seek.

I have little or no heads, despite the feints. The "heads" I refer to, some people would consider drinkable. The foreshots not so much. I compress my heads by balancing the column, then adjusting my cooling till it barely drips for 100ml, that part I consider foreshots, it is almost all methanol and goes straight down the sink. The next 200 - 400 ml has a decreasing methanol taste until I can not taste any. I check the taste every 25 - 50ml after about 150ml till it's gone. When I flame test the result I get a beautiful blue flame that can not be seen in the light.

As far as my column, I.have been avoiding discussion because it is a T500, there are plastic bits that are not supposed to be discussed here. Despite years of reading before doing something, I went with this because it was an easy way to start, box shows up, unpack and start distilling. Fits in my kitchen, then back in the box etc... I know it is not perfect, but I feel I have got some pretty good results, and can get better results with what I have.

I can upgrade to using just the boiler that fits on my kitchen counter with a 2" triclamp bulkhead. I have the bulkhead and in a couple months am going to get a 2" triclamp pot still head to use with it, though I have got some pretty good results doing DME whiskey by just pulling the packing out. A little after I get the 2" triclamp head, I can use what I have to set up a better VM setup by adding 24" spool with packing and a dephlegmator. Maybe in the future I might have the space to upgrade the boiler... but not right now.

As far as the offtake proof, that first 100ml foreshots comes off at 190 proof (cooling offtake temp 47.5 - 49.5c), the remainder comes off at 186 proof, till it comes off too slow to be worth it at a reflux rate that produces 186 (cooling offtake temp 62c), then I slow the cooling water down till cooling offtake goes to 70c and take off about 400ml of tails at around 140 proof before dumping my boiler. I do take cuts jars through the hearts in case of cooling temp hickups, a bucket with a pond pump supplying cooling water minimises unexpected cooling changes.

Boiler load is 20l of a possible 30l max. I make a 23l batch, some gets thrown down the sink while taking hydrometer readings, some is left behind with the trub after clearing. Some say you don't have to clear, but I find I get the best result with clear wash made using champaign yeast rather than bread yeast.

I have been throwing heads back in the next run as feints because as far as I can tell, it all gets refluxed out anyways. Hearts too heavy to come out until I reduce reflux rate, same with tails. Am I wrong about that? Would avoiding using feints on a reflux run improve results, even if same wash feints? There is a very notable change in flavor when I change the reflux rate, but regardless some of the flavor of the base sugar comes through throughout. I am thinking a partial mash, or some kind of grain adjunct will improve my results. I'm sure my upgrade path will improve results even more, but that has to wait for now.

Maybe try pasta water or potato water in your sugar wash and post back since it sounds like you are looking for more of a different flavor rather than just less flavor. The only way to find out if it's what you want is by trying.
I personally want to make vodka out of wheat to turn into gin.

[JakeB]

[/quote]Maybe try pasta water or potato water in your sugar wash and post back since it sounds like you are looking for more of a different flavor rather than just less flavor. The only way to find out if it's what you want is by trying.
I personally want to make vodka out of wheat to turn into gin.
[/quote]

LOL that is what got me looking in this thread to begin with, but it looks like others have not had notable results on pasta water, the potato sounded interesting. Funny you mention wheat, another thread had a link to the mash bills of many commercial vodkas, lots are grain based many wheat or corn. Wheat and barley partial mash sounds like what is going to get me where I want to go... I seem to have more reading to do...

[Zeotropic]

Maybe try pasta water or potato water in your sugar wash and post back since it sounds like you are looking for more of a different flavor rather than just less flavor. The only way to find out if it's what you want is by trying.
I personally want to make vodka out of wheat to turn into gin.
[/quote]

LOL that is what got me looking in this thread to begin with, but it looks like others have not had notable results on pasta water, the potato sounded interesting. Funny you mention wheat, another thread had a link to the mash bills of many commercial vodkas, lots are grain based many wheat or corn. Wheat and barley partial mash sounds like what is going to get me where I want to go... I seem to have more reading to do...[/quote]
I want to do all grain wheat with enzymes for vodka and all home malted wheat for whiskey.

[Zeotropic]

I started this thread assuming that there would be a decent amount of starch in cooking water but since there wasn't and I don't really have any interest in sugar washes I will probably not do anything with the idea.
I guess I could use it for mash water in my all corn to give a more rounded flavor.

[JakeB]

I started this thread assuming that there would be a decent amount of starch in cooking water but since there wasn't and I don't really have any interest in sugar washes I will probably not do anything with the idea.
I guess I could use it for mash water in my all corn to give a more rounded flavor.

It could be worth a try, it is wheat. Maybe do a tffv using pasta water... When I saw the thread I assumed there might be some worthwhile starches in there too. As far as the potato, there is not that much starch in potato's anyways. Thinking about it more the only potato vodka I have tried was Crystal Head. Bottle was cool, vodka was hotter than heck at 80 proof, so I think I'll stear clear of potato wash after all lol.

[StillerBoy]

I started this thread assuming that there would be a decent amount of starch in cooking water but since there wasn't and I don't really have any interest in sugar washes I will probably not do anything with the idea.
I guess I could use it for mash water in my all corn to give a more rounded flavor.

There will always be some flavor from whatever ingredient one uses and amounts used.. the key is following the starch or ingredient that will provide the taste you are looking for.. but all will be of a sugar base, otherwise you will need to do an AG..

There are so many options that it become very hard to determine..

In the Tried & Tried section are only a few options.. all are sugar based.. meaning just substitute the ingredient that provide the flavor with another one.. bingo.. a new a T& T recipe..

Example.. potatoes has it own flavor, but is still a sugar wash.. similarly is a cereal wash, or a Teddy's fast wash, or a tomato paste one..

So explore the possibilities by experimenting.. some options are potato water with some oats.. some rice on it's own or in combination with some oats.. or yet oat on it own.. personally I like potato and oats and a rice and oats, but are extra work to do..

Oats brings a mouth feel and a little flavor of its own..

This what the hobby is about.. allowing the person to experiment and make something of the flavor he enjoys..

Don't spend time waiting or asking for someone to make it for you.. experiment..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

Thinking about it more the only potato vodka I have tried was Crystal Head. Bottle was cool, vodka was hotter than heck at 80 proof, so I think I'll stear clear of potato wash after all lol.

It would seems to me that you are chasing the flavor of a commercial brand you enjoy.. do some research on the brand flavor and see what you get.. that what I done on pastis, and over time, I've come up with one that I really enjoy.. it simple really, but it is time involved in experimenting..

Until you find out what their recipe is, method of doing the spirit, and the equipment they use, you will never it get near the flavor..

Instead, experiment with different combination until you achieve the flavor you like, also achieve with the equipment you have..

It's really not complex.. develop understanding of all the part involve ( wash making, equipment behavior, ect.. )and your on the road to making it happen..

The T&T recipes are just the base for starting as they are all sugar wash.. expand that to other possibilities..

Mars

[JakeB]

[/quote]
It would seems to me that you are chasing the flavor of a commercial brand you enjoy.. do some research on the brand flavor and see what you get.. that what I done on pastis, and over time, I've come up with one that I really enjoy.. it simple really, but it is time involved in experimenting..

Until you find out what their recipe is, method of doing the spirit, and the equipment they use, you will never it get near the flavor..

Instead, experiment with different combination until you achieve the flavor you like, also achieve with the equipment you have..

It's really not complex.. develop understanding of all the part involve ( wash making, equipment behavior, ect.. )and your on the road to making it happen..

The T&T recipes are just the base for starting as they are all sugar wash.. expand that to other possibilities..

Mars
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice Mars. That's pretty much it, I'm looking for a more rounded flavour profile. I have made beer in the past, but only done extract brewing. It is starting to look to me like I am going to need to learn to mash next. I have been interested in this hobby for over 20 years, and just started taking a serious attempt at it. Though I am getting good results so far, I still have a lot to try, and a lot of experience to gain (reading goes a long way, but nothing beats hands on experience).

The experimenting, and sharing experiences, experimenting based on the experience of others etc is the 2nd best part of this hobby, 1st being when something comes out the condenser that really fits what you are looking for. Though I don't think I found it in pasta water, I know I'm going to find it on HD, if not a lot of interesting experiments along the way.

[IMALOSERSCUMBAG]

I'm forever tainted since I started this hobby a year ago. Can't walk through a grocery store the same.

Tell me about it. Or a hardware store.

[JakeB]

I'm forever tainted since I started this hobby a year ago. Can't walk through a grocery store the same.

Tell me about it. Or a hardware store.

LOL, it's hard not to poke around the baking isle at Costco and the like. Drives my wife nuts

[Avalir]

I didnt catch anyone mentioning it in all the replies, but unless your someone who doesnt season your pasta water (turn it as salty as the ocean), I dont even think you'd want to attempt this. And if you you don't season your pasta water, I honestly think you'd be better off seasoning the water to improve the pasta than salvaging the water... once again, just my person feeling on the matter. However, if you do attempt something with it, I really am curious how it turns out.

[Zeotropic]

I didnt catch anyone mentioning it in all the replies, but unless your someone who doesnt season your pasta water (turn it as salty as the ocean), I dont even think you'd want to attempt this. And if you you don't season your pasta water, I honestly think you'd be better off seasoning the water to improve the pasta than salvaging the water... once again, just my person feeling on the matter. However, if you do attempt something with it, I really am curious how it turns out.

It was mentioned. I don't salt but my wife does. There isn't enough there in pasta water to do anything with.

[Avalir]

Sorry, didnt catch it in that case. Lots of replies and I'm sure I accidentally scrolled past a couple. Lol... but after dwelling on it, I'd hate to store up that much pasta water, but maybe just replace the water you would've used if you're mashing? Gives at least a little extra food and nutrients with what would otherwise go to waste without having to worry about storing and boiling down 60+ gallons... I've contemplated a similar idea with maple sap as a water replacement, though not sure if that would attribute to any extra flavor without at least boiling it down to a loose/thin syrup, but that's a lot of extra effort when I could just have whiskey and maple syrup for the same effort.

[Zeotropic]

Sorry, didnt catch it in that case. Lots of replies and I'm sure I accidentally scrolled past a couple. Lol... but after dwelling on it, I'd hate to store up that much pasta water, but maybe just replace the water you would've used if you're mashing? Gives at least a little extra food and nutrients with what would otherwise go to waste without having to worry about storing and boiling down 60+ gallons... I've contemplated a similar idea with maple sap as a water replacement, though not sure if that would attribute to any extra flavor without at least boiling it down to a loose/thin syrup, but that's a lot of extra effort when I could just have whiskey and maple syrup for the same effort.

So true. I would rather drink the shots of maple syrup and have the whiskey separate.

[Evil Wizard]

I'm forever tainted since I started this hobby a year ago. Can't walk through a grocery store the same.

Tell me about it. Or a hardware store.

This right here, buddy.