To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

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Mash master
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To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Hi guys, looking to do a single malt (yes I know the clue is in the name) and I’m malting the barley myself, 1st steep 25% hydration, air rest, 2nd steep up to 44% hydration, germination etc etc etc. I have 50kg of barley and at the moment I have half germinating, will be ready for drying out in a day or so. My question is do I have to malt all of it? I will have enough enzymes from the malted for conversion so can’t I just roast the other half to get some flavour and make it easier to crush? The starch will still be accessible right? I could steep it first to release the starches into the water and when the water drops to 64 degrees add the malted.
I know that Chrystal and chocolate malts need to be malted to roast the internal sugars.
I can’t seem to find much specifically about this online! Any advice would be appreciated 👍
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rubberduck71
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by rubberduck71 »

I just did an Irish Whiskey & the recipe called for 1/3 malted barley 2/3 unmalted. That should be plenty to convert the unmalted's starches.

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Mash master
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Duck,

Was the unmalted you used completely unprocessed or was it toasted? Or anything done to it?

MM
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by rubberduck71 »

Whoops, I had it backwards! 2/3 malted & 1/3 unmalted. I used Golden Promise for the malted & flaked barley for the unmalted (no toasting, just straight from the online brewstore I purchase from). I even threw in a small bag of cornmeal for some taste (~5% of total grains).

My mashing barrel goes inside my 35L digiboil. Boy was that a bugger to mix!!! Next time I do that recipe, I'll split it in half. I haven't run this through the still yet. I have some rice wine & tequila wash in low-wines ahead of the irish whiskey ferments... Man, I wish we had 3 day weekends!

Then I used the spent grains for a gumball head (a la Jimbo's recipe).

If you're at 50/50, you should be good to go. Hope that info helps!

Duck
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Demy
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Demy »

I malt the barley for several years. To answer your question, hypothetically you could do it, but considering you don't know if you malt your barley well , I suggest you use the maximum amount of malt, in any case do not go under 50/50.
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8Ball
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by 8Ball »

No
Yes
Yes
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Twisted Brick
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Twisted Brick »

Do a stovetop test mash of your fresh malt first. You may want to wait a week or two for the malt to settle. This test will reveal your DP and subsequent grain bill requirements.

If you haven't visited here, this site may help with the roasting and making specialty malts.
Last edited by Twisted Brick on Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mash master
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Thanks guys for all your feedback, very helpful.
I was going to try two different batches, one pound of my malted barley in 1 gallon of water, the other half a pound of my malted and half a pound of my unmalted in a gallon of water, the unmalted I’m going to gelatinise and see what results I get with both. This is a feed Barley so probably not the highest quality but as you can see from the image it’s coming along nicely, it’s grown about a quarter in a day so I reckon they’ll be ready for drying out tomorrow.

I will post the results once I’ve finished the malting process.

MM
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Germination
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by 8Ball »

Mash master wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 am This is a feed Barley so probably not the highest quality but as you can see from the image it’s coming along nicely, it’s grown about a quarter in a day so I reckon they’ll be ready for drying out tomorrow.
From my notes gathered from posts on this site:
• Feedlot Barley
a. Certain varieties of feedlot barley produce too much dimethyl sulfide (DMS).
b. An extra-long and vigorous wort boil of 1.5 to two hours can help reduce the amount of dimethyl sulfide in the final product.
c. DMS does not taste the same to everyone.
i. It might smell and taste like cooked sweet corn. Good!
ii. It also might taste like rotting vegetables, sweet card board, etc...
iii. The trick to avoiding it in your product is an extended boil and a fast cooling of the wort.
The important temp to be under is 140F.

• I know from personal experience that malted barley gives a sweeter taste than unmalted.
○ My standard recipe these days is 70% unmalted rolled barley from one feed store, 30% home-malted barley from a different feed store, that I grind in my Corona mill.
○ The rolled barley doesn't require further grinding.

○ Feed grade grains have significant potential for infections. They don't worry much about cleanliness and sanitation.
§ At the very least pasteurization (160Fx10 minutes) is important.
§ Bring to a boil and sterilize. Better safe than sorry.


I’ve malted my own feed store barley last year with good results. I smoked it during the last part of the drying process, then stored it in 5G buckets with the good sealing lids. It is still in good shape for use today. I’m sure the yield from the feed grain is not as high as grains grown for brewing, but I use 30% malted & smoked feed store barley in my all malt recipe and I like it. Planning on doing a 4th fill on a 5G Gibbs cask with it after my rum is ready.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Thanks 8ball 👍 much appreciated
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8Ball
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by 8Ball »

I’d also go ahead and toast the unmalted grains before using them.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... it=Roasted

Kills any nasties on them and gives it a nice biscuit flavor. If you have liquid enzymes, then go ahead and toast the malted as well.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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Demy
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Demy »

It is very important to dry your mortar at low temperature to preserve enzymes, this will lead you to success. Germinate until the acrospira is close to the length of the grain.
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by The Baker »

'dry your mortar'

autocorrect??

Geoff
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8Ball
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by 8Ball »

The Baker wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:31 pm 'dry your mortar'

autocorrect??

Geoff
I’m certain he meant ‘malts.’
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
Mash master
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

8Ball wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am I’d also go ahead and toast the unmalted grains before using them.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... it=Roasted

Kills any nasties on them and gives it a nice biscuit flavor. If you have liquid enzymes, then go ahead and toast the malted as well.
Thank you 👍
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

So, I did 1/2 lb of my malted Barley and 1/2 lb unmalted (but roasted) in 1/2 gallon water. I got 1.048 after doing an iodine test. Not ideal, I’m thinking of testing just my malted and see what SG I get?
Couple of questions -
1) did roasting the unmalted degrade the starch?
2) all the starch turned into sugar so was there not enough starch or not enough DP? Or should I have just tested the malted?
3) if I get a different result from testing just the malted is there an equation to calculate how much unmalted I can use and still be at 1.060/1.065 (provided I get a good result from the malted)?

Cheers guys 🍻
Mash master
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

Maxed out at 1.054 after cooling down slightly, not too bad!
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Re: To malt or not to malt, THAT is the question

Post by Mash master »

So, I tested the equivalent of 2lbs of my own malted barley in a gallon of water, ground it to a medium grind, when I put it in the water the water turned white so it was extracting the starch into the water, brought it up to 65°C and held it there for an hour to an hour and a half, still only getting 1.054? Does that mean that because it is feed Barley the grains aren’t as big so I’m not getting as much extraction out of it or is that just what my malted barley produces? Is that all the diastatic power it has? I’m going to try with some shop bought malted barley to see if it’s my process.
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