Which Grain for neutral, or is sugar just fine?

[Storm]

Hi

I got my feed wet in the hobby a few months back and have done quiet a few runs. Certainly not expierenced but I guess I got sugar wash mostly figured out ^^.

Since I only do 2 types of spirits ...well kinda 3 (Gin, (Irish-ish)Whiskey and Honey Whiskey) I thought about stepping up my Gin Game maybe a little.

So far I create my neutral exclusivly from sugar wash, but commercial gin has to be made from grain (which type isnt specified). But thats exactly where my question comes in.
Which kind of Grain is best to use to get a relatively neutral product (without destilling it too often)?
And is it worth it in your opinion? It is more costly than sugar and more effort is involved. Is a regular guy even able to taste the differents after the gin is flavoured?

So far my grain bill is far from complex but actually already does the trick for me: 2/3 Pilsner malt, 1/3 pure Barley, add sugar if sg to low for your liking. Yellow Label angel yeast because it takes away all worries abouth the ferment (for my neutral sugar wash i use safespirit neutral)
Easy as cake and the result is just as easy to drink. Certainly no complex taste but, I dont care because it really doesnt burn much, which is a worth while trade for me. right down the jameson alley

but even for this simple grain bill the low wines are quiet smellable, so not suited I guess? Apperently rye is used alot for gin, but rye whiskey has a much more intense taste sounds counterproductive to me

What would be a possible goal to me: just creating one mash from now on and just treating it differently. (because iam lazy)
So for gin: destill 2 Times, than flavour on 3 run with botanicals.
For whiskey: destill once, age on oak, proof down, done
For honey whiskey: destill once, age on oak, proof down with honey sirup, done.

Can this work or will every mash that is good for (admittidly rather shallow) whiskey be to strong in tast than it could be made into a decent neutral within a reasonable amount of runs?
Is there a defacto standard yeast you would recommend for whiskey? OR at least a most common one
Whats your expierence/thoughts/best guess?

I hope, I wasnt to confusing and Iam looking forward to all the input you have for me

[dukethebeagle120]

Wheat.
Triple distiied

[Demy]

I too agree with wheat. In truth you need i explain a little more what I think ..... you can get more or less neutral alcohol from anything if you know how to do (many distillations, reflux etc.) I talk about cereals, potatoes, sugar, etc. . For me the sugar washing is the one more neutral than all, the other types of neutral will always have a "imprint" unique, they will still be neutral but have a unique feeling, this as long as your palate knows how to recognize. So I believe that every type of neutral (recipe) can find a fair place based on the product you want to get. Among the cereals, the wheat is the most delicate one. Obviously all these are just my opinions.

[Rrmuf]

TEddysad’s FFV is from sugar and wheat bran and is very neutral!

[Storm]

Thanks alot, so maybe I interpreted nutral wrong.
Because tastewise Neutral from Wheat isnt the same as Neutral from Rye and isnt the same as a neutral from sugar wash.
So in short Neutralisnt alsways neutral.
I see. Thanks ^^

But adjusting my recipe with more wheat could help me geat a more neutral product to beginn with. It wont be absolutley neutral, but neutral enough in a sense ^^

I will give it a try with:
3 kg Barley
2 kg Pilsner Malt
1 kg Wheat Malt
~2kg sugar

I could lower the amount of pilsner for more wheat but I dont know if the diastatic power will be enough, probably if i lower the barley but that could make it less smooth...
But that gives me the info I need to play around.

Thanks alot if I remember it I will give you an update if the jack of all trades (master of none) mash works ^^

[8Ball]

Why not try a tried & true neutral recipe (as suggested earlier) and compare it against what you have come up with? If it is not to your liking, then start tweaking it.

[still_stirrin]

Why not try a tried & true neutral recipe (as suggested earlier) and compare it against what you have come up with? If it is not to your liking, then start tweaking it.

+1.

Storm, unless you’re an experienced all grain brewer, trying to “create” a neutral base for your gins will require several attempts to get it right. Experience has its advantages.

So, As 8ball pointed out —> stick to the Tried & True recipes to start with. They’re “proven by experience” over time.

When you have control of your processes (brewing, fermenting, and distilling), then maybe you can get creative and make your own mash recipe. Until then, stick to the basics....less troubleshooting for us here on the forum.
ss

[SomethingObscure]

TEddysad’s FFV is from sugar and wheat bran and is very neutral!

Why not try a tried & true neutral recipe (as suggested earlier) and compare it against what you have come up with? If it is not to your liking, then start tweaking it.

+1.

Storm, unless you’re an experienced all grain brewer, trying to “create” a neutral base for your gins will require several attempts to get it right. Experience has its advantages.

So, As 8ball pointed out —> stick to the Tried & True recipes to start with. They’re “proven by experience” over time.

....

Don't want to be a pedantic a$$ but I'm sure teds fast fermenting vodka is and will never be tried and true.
[emoji15][emoji21]

@ Garouda & Rrmuf and others that have asked .

The moderation team have had several discussions over whether to include TFFV in tried and true . While we appreciate that there have been many requests for this including from Ted him self ,and by comments from users that it no doubt works , we have thought hard about it decided that it is not really that much different from a multitude of other sugar wash variants and doesn’t really offer any real ground braking advances to the Hobby .

Sorry Folk

I've only made it once but It seems to me like many already consider tffv tried and true.

Don't mean to sh!t stir [emoji106]

[Saltbush Bill]

Just wondering what sort of still is being used to make this " Neutral"

[greggn]

Which kind of Grain is best to use to get a relatively neutral product (without destilling it too often)?

Rice.

[MartinCash]

Don't want to be a pedantic a$$ but I'm sure teds fast fermenting vodka is and will never be tried and true.
[emoji15][emoji21]

I've only made it once but It seems to me like many already consider tffv tried and true.

Don't mean to sh!t stir [emoji106]

It's essentially a variation of Deathwish Wheat Germ, which IS in Tried&True.

However I find TFFV to be easier to make, a bit more neutral, less prone to rancid wheat germ (it uses bran) and equally fast to terment.

[Rrmuf]

Don't want to be a pedantic a$$ but I'm sure teds fast fermenting vodka is and will never be tried and true.
[emoji15][emoji21]

I've only made it once but It seems to me like many already consider tffv tried and true.

Don't mean to sh!t stir [emoji106]

It's essentially a variation of Deathwish Wheat Germ, which IS in Tried&True.

However I find TFFV to be easier to make, a bit more neutral, less prone to rancid wheat germ (it uses bran) and equally fast to terment.

+1 on all of the above. Regardless of whether it's T&T, it's my go-to for a good reliable neutral. I've made over 250l of it.

[kimbodious]

Also consider Googe’s Goo kale wash recipe for a very cheap and easy neutral.