Single malt whiskey using LME

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Twisted Brick
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Twisted Brick »

shadylane wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:48 pm According to my Great Grandson.
His teething toy tastes better with a drop of malt extract. :wink:
So, a fourth ferment test then?
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Windy City »

I haven’t done an extract beer in many years. But I would recommend doing a boil to hot break until you have a clean boil before fermenting. This will almost eliminate your chance of puking.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Birrofilo »

shadylane wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:46 pm Ingredients

LME, water and yeast.

Guess the first step is to figure out how many pounds of LME is needed per 15 gallons of wash.
I'm also guessing this is going to get expensive. :roll:
Any ideas, suggestions or warnings are welcome. :lol:
The seller will normally state the "potential" of the LME or DME which is sold. If not stated, a typical value for LME is 36 ppg, and for DME is 42 ppg. Sugar has a potential of 46 ppg more or less.

PPG stays for "points per pound per gallon". "Potential" is also sometimes indicated as "specific gravity" or "pre-boil density".

The Potential of a fermentable indicates how much density you will get in your syrup when you add a certain amount of water.

So, if you put 1 pound of LME in 1 gallon of total volume, you get a syrup with 36 density points, or 1,036 direct density.

From here, it's all downhill. You want to make 10 gallons total volume at 1,036 density? Easy peasy, get 10 pounds of LME and add water up to 10 gallons total volume.

You want to make 10 gallons at 1,040 density?
You need 40 x 10 = 400 "total density points" in your 10 gallons.
Considering that each pound has 36 total density points, you need 400 / 36 = 11,11 pounds of LME. Add water up to 10 gallons.

Let's get a bit further.
You have a 6 gallon-batch which, after your all-grain process, ended up at 1,039. You decide that you want to strengthen it up to 1,050. How much DME will you have to use?

As a first but close approximation, you need 6 x 11 total density points, which is 66 total density points.
You want to use DME and your DME has a potential of 42 ppg. You need to add 66 / 42 = 1,6 pounds of DME to your wash.

This is not strictly speaking exact because adding DME will raise the total volume, but it will be very close.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

It's been two days and the bakers yeast in all three ferments are bubbling away.
The ferment with no enzymes is down to 1.019
The ferments with enzymes are both at 1.010ish
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by hellbilly007 »

As far as converting the unfermentable sugars, would Angel yeast perhaps be an option? Asking because I have no experience with Angel yeast...yet
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

I haven't tried angels yeast yet.
From what I've read it's a mixure of yeast and enzymes.
It seems kinda pricey compared to bakers yeast and enzymes.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Windy City wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:51 pm I haven’t done an extract beer in many years. But I would recommend doing a boil to hot break until you have a clean boil before fermenting. This will almost eliminate your chance of puking.
I might be wrong :lol:
I'm going to ferment the LME all the way dry and let it clear.
I'm hoping there won't be any unfermented sugar or yeast left, to cause puking.

The test ferment with gluco is already at 1.002 ish
It's still fermenting and hasn't cleared yet.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Deplorable »

You almost have me convinced to spend the money on a "no mash" single malt...
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Deplorable wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:42 pm You almost have me convinced to spend the money on a "no mash" single malt...
From what I've seen so far, a "no mash" single malt is do able.
The ferment with gluco is now at 0.999ish and doesn't appear to be completely done. But it's getting close.
The top inch of the ferment is getting darker and clearer.
Looks like it's about time to start the first real ferment with 15 gallons of water, 24 pounds of LME and enzymes.
For better or worst, I'll keep Ya'll posted on how that goes.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by HDNB »

i did 5 ferments with DME 2 years ago. it was expensive. and excellent booze. and puking was a major problem even in a jacketed boiler with constant agitation.
like Goose eye said "It's gonna wanna puke"
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

"It's gonna wanna puke"

That's almost the exact same words Bubba said. Except a few vulgarities. :lol:
And He's made several, very good extract whiskey runs.
But he hasn't used enzymes to convert unfermentable sugars. :wink:
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Deplorable »

At $3 a pound for LME locally, That's an expensive prospect. Triple the cost of AG mashing.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:34 am At $3 a pound for LME locally, That's an expensive prospect. Triple the cost of AG mashing.
That's a fact.
But compared to all the steps needed to successfully do a real mash.
Using LME is easier and greatly increases to odds of success.
The amount and price of malt extract wouldn't be too bad, for the folks using stove top sized distillers. :wink:
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Sounds like it’s still less expensive than the likker store :)
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Deplorable »

Four sure. If you're all set up for 5 gallon beer batches and a small boiler, or an apartment dweller, it's a good alternative. especially if you can maximize conversion to stretch the extract out a little bit.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

"It's gonna wanna puke"


.......my LME strip runs in an Air Still with very small head space do not puke……...….. could it be the supplementary amino acids from added wheat germ (or polenta) or the vitamins in Vegemite or the overnight in fridge before stripping ?

~ ~

Recommended LME (available Australia, New Zealand and Canada) is Morgan’s Master Malt Roasted Dark which claims..…. ‘roasted bitter mocha flavours and aroma’.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:16 pm
......my LME strip runs in an Air Still with very small head space do not puke……...….. could it be the supplementary amino acids from added wheat germ (or polenta) or the vitamins in Vegemite or the overnight in fridge before stripping ?
I thought about adding supplementary nutrients.
But I decided to cross my fingers and hope the LME had enough.

I mixed around 15 gallons of water with SEBAmyl-GL
Then added enough LME to get a sg of 1.060
When I checked the pH with crappy papers it was around 5.5ish
That's the upper limit for the SEBAmyl-GL but I figured as the ferment progressed the pH would drop.

Looks like it's time to get started. So I set the fermenters thermostat to 35'c and pitched bakers yeast.

On a side note
I've got some vegemite and LME set aside for my great grandson.
According to him, that's some good stuff when smeared on his teething toy. :wink:
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Deplorable »

Vegemite, that's definitely an acquired taste. I had a taste smeared on a cracker once. It took a whole pint of beer to get the taste out of my mouth.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

be careful the ‘40% Less Salt Vegemite’….. is spiked with B6 and B12
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Only gave the youngen just enough vegemite to taste. :wink:
He made a face kinda like when he tastes lemons.
Then reaches out for more. :lol:
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Twisted Brick »

Deplorable wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:31 pm Vegemite, that's definitely an acquired taste.
I loves me some Vegemite.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Took a whole pack of it with me when I visited the US ......kids and adults alike ......they love it or hate it......here its liked by most.
Secret is to spread it real thin......just sort of wave the jar over ya toast.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

The LME is is fermenting so hard it looks like it's boiling.
There's not enough LME left in the jug for another fermenter full.
So I ordered another 32 pounds, this time I'll try some Briess Amber LME.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Saltbush Bill »

My experience was similar its a furious ferment.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:49 pm My experience was similar its a furious ferment.
Especially, at 35'c when bakers yeast gets fed a 100% malt wort. :shock:

Unless I change my mind, get side tracked, forget or kick the bucket.
I plan on doing the next batch with a lighter LME and gluco at 30'c :wink:
So I can compare it to the darker LME fermented at 35'c
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Saltbush Bill »

A cooler and slightly slower ferment cant be a bad thing imo.
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Sometimes unavoidable... but why choose to ferment at over 30 C………. ?
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:07 am Sometimes unavoidable... but why choose to ferment at over 30 C………. ?
So the SEBAmyl-GL enzyme will be more active.

https://enzymash.biz/download/sebamylgl.pdf
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Re: Single malt whiskey using LME

Post by NormandieStill »

This thread got me to take a look at LME for making a whisky. And then I realised that it would cost me over 80EUR for one 25L spirit run (3 x 25L washes). From the same homebrew supplier I can get a 25kg sack of malt barley, which would do me one 25L spirit run with 7kg left over, for 22EUR. I appreciate the time saving, but that's a big investment to make for making 3 washes instead of 3 mashes. How do the prices compare in other countries?
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