My first corn mash

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
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SpiffyStump
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My first corn mash

Post by SpiffyStump »

Attempting my first corn and barley mash without sugar, I have done alot of sweet feed recipes and have never had a problem with them yet, but I want to make better recipes. I have read that fermenting with out sugar makes a better tasting and smoother spirit, so with that being said I am trying to move onto converting starch to sugar, I have also been learning how to read gravity as well but so I dont get off subject heres a recipe I found and am working with. I am using 55 GL drums and yes I know all of you will say to start smaller but I have done other recipes before and its not worth my time to only get a quart of spirit that sometimes needs to be re distiled for better flavor, so I do drums for good spirit runs to get good hearts from.

Found this on claw hammer website.
8.5 LBS flaked maze (corn)
2 LBS malted barley
6.5 GL of water

Since I am using 55 gl drum I did a ruff caculation to factor how much room will be left for water after grain is in the drum. Usaully My sweet feed recipie 50 LBS feed, 50 LBS sugar fills 1/3 of the drum, so I feel that there will be ruffly enough room for 36.66 gl of water, I alwasy filled the drum up with this recipe and get about a 7% yeild. So what I plan on doing from here is attempting to get a 12% abv after fermintation with this sugar free corn recipie and my math for the 55 gl drum is.

51 LBS flaked maze
12 LBS malted barley
39 gl water

I am hoping this will fill the drum up but if not I plan on slowly adding water until I reach a gravity of 1.1. That should yeaild abour 12% ABV if it ferments correctly... right? please correct me if I am wrong on any of this and I am also looking for a chart to tell me how much fruits and grains yeild ruffly, I know I have found one before and might find it if i continue to search but maybe you have a better one or a thing or to to tell me or correct me on.
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Distillusioned
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Distillusioned »

I go 2 pounds grain per gallon (standard pretty much everywhere, so not my idea), but I also don't stress out too much on my efficiency. I measure mine with a refractometer and let the chips fall where they may. What you're doing will be tasty, IMHO.

Edit: but shooting for 1.1 is too high, IMO. 1.050 to 1.080 is a good range for me.
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Sporacle »

:D +1 on the gravity, this is an old thread but makes a lot of sense
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 61&t=38584
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SpiffyStump
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by SpiffyStump »

Distillusioned wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:34 pm I go 2 pounds grain per gallon (standard pretty much everywhere, so not my idea), but I also don't stress out too much on my efficiency. I measure mine with a refractometer and let the chips fall where they may. What you're doing will be tasty, IMHO.

Edit: but shooting for 1.1 is too high, IMO. 1.050 to 1.080 is a good range for me.
is this to much grain for a 55gl drum? just got it mixed up and it seems like alot of grain after adding hot water.
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Sporacle »

SpiffyStump wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:31 pm
Distillusioned wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:34 pm I go 2 pounds grain per gallon (standard pretty much everywhere, so not my idea), but I also don't stress out too much on my efficiency. I measure mine with a refractometer and let the chips fall where they may. What you're doing will be tasty, IMHO.

Edit: but shooting for 1.1 is too high, IMO. 1.050 to 1.080 is a good range for me.
is this to much grain for a 55gl drum? just got it mixed up and it seems like alot of grain after adding hot water.
My maths might be off but I think you're at 63 pounds to 39 gallons so if you're aiming for 2 pounds per gallon you are actually a bit short on grain. Having said that you have 16 gallons of head space to fit 63 pounds of grain after water, I've got to metric convert and have a think
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by jonnys_spirit »

63# of grain will only give you so much likker no matter how much water you put in. Ideal volume would be three stripping runs worth. Careful with the mash temp so you don't denature the malt.

Cheers!
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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SpiffyStump
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by SpiffyStump »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:46 pm 63# of grain will only give you so much likker no matter how much water you put in. Ideal volume would be three stripping runs worth. Careful with the mash temp so you don't denature the malt.

Cheers!
-j
the malted barley works well at 150 deggress correct? any higher temp then that would denature correct?
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rubberduck71
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by rubberduck71 »

SpiffyStump wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:38 am the malted barley works well at 150 deggress correct? any higher temp then that would denature correct?
It will still work higher than that, but effectiveness starts degrading above 160F & eventually stop. Just keep it in that magic 150-155 range.
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Dr Griz
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Dr Griz »

When building AG wash recipes, I usually start with the rules of thumb followed by beer brewers: count on about 0.36 quarts of volume per pound of grain, and aim for a water:grist ratio of at least 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. And about 20% headspace to keep the lid from blowing off.

So 63 pounds of grain works out to 5.7 gallons of volume, with a minimum of 23.7 gallons of water. All that works out to a minimum mash volume of about 30 gallons, well under the 44-45 gallon final mash volume you should aim for. 39 gallons would put you right on what I would take to be the edge of a safe headspace.
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Chucker
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Chucker »

I’ve been basing my AG’s on 70# total grain, 30-35 gal water.
50# ground corn
20# whatever else I feel like or have. Usually malted, solo or combo.
Alpha-amylase enzyme
Beta glucoamylase enzyme
Other adjuncts as needed for ph adjust/ph control/calcium source. 1/2 of water, boiling is added to corn, mixed and held while 2nd 1/2 is heated to about 170 and mixed in to reduce temp. Enough temp is lost during these steps that it’s right at the point to add the malt and some alpha. Static cooled to <150 it gets the rest of the enzyme and rests until reaching pitch temp.
I don’t check conversion and haven’t checked OG for some time but it’s been 1.06-1.065 range, always tastes sweet and makes consistent yields. I figure there’s little point in testing conversion at this point as there is little I could really do and the temp is at a point where something is going to start up quickly if I don’t get yeast going sooner.
Fermented on the grain, I get more than enough clarified wash for a strip run. Add ten gallons water or backset back to the grains and rack it again (settled overnite) to fill boiler along with any first rack that didn’t fit, low wines, previous feints, to make a spirit run.
Plenty of room to operate in a 55 gal drum. Good volumes for a 16 gal boiler. Abv in wash and final yield? You get what you get. You don’t get much above a 1.07 from grain alone and be able to settle it/extract it on a practical basis. If you squeeze it you work at it. If you don’t ferment on the grain you add a bunch of water to get the extract, or squeeze it
and probably still rinse. Took me a while to get my head around the fact that I’d just have to make a greater volume at lower gravity to make a MUCH better product. Wish I’d done it sooner.
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I’m with you chucker. I estimate that in a 55g drum after you siphon down to the bed (i get close to 24 gallons first siphon) there’s almost 15 gallons of beer left in the barrel. Top that up with fresh water, mix, and let it settle for a day or two. Siphon again to the grain bed and that’s the AG run. I also reserve a bit of the beer to top up the spirit run. Then ferment a sugarhead and i’ll mash in a little more grain or specialty malt or whatever to bump the flavor and 50-70# sugar plus some backset. I will squeeze the grains after that and get maybe 12-15 gallons from the squeezed. That’s a strip runs worth and makes the spent grains easier to dispose of for me. If i’m working hard at it I can do two spirit runs in about three weeks time and yield 4-5 gallons total of white plus barrel cut. Four fairly different products. AG barrel and white + sugarhead barrel and white. AG feints cut also go towards next AG spirit run and sugarhead feints cut towards reflux run. Maybe 2-3 gallons feints from each.
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Timothy_W
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by Timothy_W »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:56 am I’m with you chucker. I estimate that in a 55g drum after you siphon down to the bed (i get close to 24 gallons first siphon) there’s almost 15 gallons of beer left in the barrel. Top that up with fresh water, mix, and let it settle for a day or two. Siphon again to the grain bed and that’s the AG run. I also reserve a bit of the beer to top up the spirit run. Then ferment a sugarhead and i’ll mash in a little more grain or specialty malt or whatever to bump the flavor and 50-70# sugar plus some backset. I will squeeze the grains after that and get maybe 12-15 gallons from the squeezed. That’s a strip runs worth and makes the spent grains easier to dispose of for me. If i’m working hard at it I can do two spirit runs in about three weeks time and yield 4-5 gallons total of white plus barrel cut. Four fairly different products. AG barrel and white + sugarhead barrel and white. AG feints cut also go towards next AG spirit run and sugarhead feints cut towards reflux run. Maybe 2-3 gallons feints from each.
So you can use raw materials more productively if you follow your recommendations?
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: My first corn mash

Post by jonnys_spirit »

“More productive” isn’t necessarily accurate or inaccurate. This way leaves some of the AG beer unstripped (so slightly less yield on the AG batch) but it does get used in the sugarhead and i still eventually squeeze the grains to yield approximately one more stripping charge. Last time I did this I used about 10% backset on the sugarhead. Next time i’ll use 20% and maybe something to raise backset pH if needed.
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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