Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

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Dokimos
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Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Dokimos »

Alright folks.

I've seen some posts about Irish whiskey and I decided I want to take a stab at it.

I'm not talking about Green Spot or Redbreast, even though those are delicious and worth drinking. I'm talking about making something like the lower tier Bushmills or Jameson products... but better.

As many of you know, Irish whiskey the way most folks think about it is composed of three types of whiskey blended together:
1. Grain whiskey, made from whatever grain is cheapest at the time, likely corn, distilled to very high ABV (up to 95%), and aged in re-re-reused bourbon casks. This is the base of the blend for the cheaper blends, which is why irish whiskey can be very approachable for new drinkers. Not much intensity or flavor from this whiskey.
2. Single malt, made from 100% malted barley, distilled in a pot still. Almost always double or triple distilled. Triple distillation is more common in Ireland than it is elsewhere, though it's far from being an industry standard there. This contributes body, flavor, complexity, and "oomf".
3. Single pot still, which is like single malt except a proportion of unmalted barley is used (at least 30%). Allegedly, this contributes the shortbread cookie/buttery flavor often present in irish whiskey. This is an example of whiskey production being based on "well, what else were we supposed to do?" instead of flavor reasons. Not saying it's a compromise, just stating a fact! It certainly makes a whiskey taste more irish.

So in order to reproduce a blended irish whiskey, I plan on making three separate recipes, aging them separately for 6 months or so, them blending them together. My intent is to make a whiskey that is very smooth (easy), with good flavor (slightly harder) and above all, with great balance and an Irish character (the real challenge). For me, this typifies a good Irish whiskey.

My plan, with criticism welcome, is to make the following for blending:

1. Grain whiskey made from either 80% corn and 20% barley or 100% corn using enzymes, distilled to 90-95% ABV, and aged on 4th use charred American oak.
2. Single malt using 100% malted barely, probably a pale malt that's not roasted or anything, maybe golden promise? Never tried it but I've heard good things and I love balcones single malt. I'll age it on sherry-soaked oak and reused american oak.
3. Single pot still using 50% base malt and 50% unmalted barley, maybe flaked from a feed store. Probably age on used american oak or sherried oak if I feel like it.

What do you all think? Good course of action?
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Deplorable »

Cant hurt to try.
I've got 5 gallons of single malt 50/50 2 row and Marris Otter that's just under 10 months old now in a once used bourbon barrel. Figure to start getting into it in the spring or summer.
Working on a 5 gallon barrel fill of 100% corn now that I'll let go for 18 months or so as well.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

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Things that make me go hm.
Will keep an eye out for you to update in the spring.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Stonecutter »

Dokimos wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:10 pm Bushmills or Jameson products... but better…..
So you mean Tullamore Dew
What do you all think? Good course of action?
Go for it. Post lots of pics.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by 8Ball »

🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

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Stonecutter wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:38 pm
Dokimos wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:10 pm Bushmills or Jameson products... but better…..
So you mean Tullamore Dew
What do you all think? Good course of action?
Go for it. Post lots of pics.
Yep, something like TD is my goal. I know the light, floral, fruity notes will be in the late heads so hopefully I can keep that in the mix without having to age it 3 or more years.

I just started AG so I'm looking forward to having some aged stock in the future. So far I've done a corn whiskey, high rye bourbon, and corn/rye/oats/barley mash. So far those are aging nicely.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Stonecutter »

You got some work ahead of ya that’s for sure. It’s a damn shame we all can’t get together somehow and BS the right way.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Dokimos »

Ain't that the truth. It'll be fun but it'll take a lot of time. I'll report back but no promises as to when.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

I am just curious why you would make a blended? Given this is craft small batch, why not just stick with the traditional Single Pot Still Irish Whiskey?
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by MihiT »

Ahh tully dew, one of my favourite regulars.

Blended would have to be easier to pull off than a single-run single-malt. Especially if you don't know how the flavours will age/bloom...

Watching with interest, one day I might age something for 6 months...intentionally even.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by NZChris »

I think the time frame you're hoping for is a bit ambitious unless you have some fast aging trickery to include.

I was reading an Irish Whisky protocol a while back and it was so complicated that I had to draw a flow chart so that I could understand it. High low wines, weak low wines, strong feints, weak feints, where each went for the next distillation etc.. It would be done continuously over a season, not one small set of distillations from one ferment.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by rubberduck71 »

I too am a Tullamore Dew fan... I have a 50 lb bag of ground Golden Promise ear-marked for a similar recipe.

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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by daguy »

I just got into the distilling hobby and also love Irish whiskey.

I just finished my first batch a month ago. It's a single malt (just simple Rahr's 2-row) I pot stilled. Did a stripping run then slow spirit run. I dumped the foreshots, and collected basically from 160-120 proof which is ageing now in mason jars. The stuff over 160 and under 120 proof I'm keeping to add to the next bath.

My question; What kind of wood do you typically age this kind of simple single malt whisky on? American oak? Charred? Toasted?

I appreciate any advice!
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Dokimos »

Why would I make a blend instead of a single malt? Because I can! Also many non-whiskey drinkers I know would probably like something a little milder than single pot still.

I don't plan on speed aging any way, but with tight cuts, my spirits are nice and mellowed by 6 months. For complexity, I may have to wait longer. We'll see.

Used, charred american oak and/or ex-sherry wood is typical. But there are no rules (other than the ones we routinely break).
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Ben »

What about the yeast? Windsor maybe, that would give you some of the "fruity", if you are fermenting somewhat warm (65-70) Wyeast 1084 would work well.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by OtisT »

In your research did tripple distillation come up for making Irish whiskey? I had thought that one reason that the Irish whiskey was so smooth was because much of it is tripple distilled. I think NZChris eluded to this in his comments about the complex process he read about. Just curious. Otis
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Dokimos »

OtisT wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:23 am In your research did tripple distillation come up for making Irish whiskey? I had thought that one reason that the Irish whiskey was so smooth was because much of it is tripple distilled. I think NZChris eluded to this in his comments about the complex process he read about. Just curious. Otis
I may end up triple distilling the single malt if I make enough, but not all Irish whiskeys are triple distilled. I think with my slow, methodical distillation and careful cuts, I can easily make up for the difference between my double distillation and the triple distillation Middleton is doing.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Chauncey »

Chris is right the triple distillation protocol not being straight forward like youd think.

Tully is the goto irish whiskey these days. Its the shot of 90 percent of the other bartenders i know and my own goto as well when at work. In my past 3 jobs and my current one i sell more tully than anything else. That and Esplon blanco is hugely popular these days with non whiskey drinkers.


I like powers more but we dont carry it anymore.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Ben »

I was fortunate enough to visit Teeling in Dublin a few years ago, their triple distillation is 8% wash, distilled to 30%, they mix that with feints from previous second and third distillations, distill to 65, then distill only the good cuts from that to 82, then dilute to barrel strength. I don't think you can copy this unless you are running multiple successive batches.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

NZChris wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:14 pm
I was reading an Irish Whisky protocol a while back and it was so complicated that I had to draw a flow chart so that I could understand it. High low wines, weak low wines, strong feints, weak feints, where each went for the next distillation etc.. It would be done continuously over a season, not one small set of distillations from one ferment.
What little I read, it sounded like the process was really meant for a continuous process of batch after batch with multiple types of feints being set aside to be add back into various stages of the triple distillation. If I remember, during each stage of distillation the distillates were separated by ABV. Depending on the stage and ABV, the distillates were either moved forward to the next distillation or back into a previous stage.

Chris, if you still have the work flow, it would be interesting to see it.

I've done my first Irish Whiskey (Malted Barley, Unmalted Barley, Corn and Oat) and its aging now in glass with a used Oak Bourbon stave. But for process, I kept it very simple as my main goal was to simply have the distillate to have as much contact with copper by running it multiple times. My 1st run I just threw out Foreshots and collected down to 15%. The second run, I cut on 10% of on the front end, and they collected down to about 20%. Then the third, I ran slow and treated it like any other spirit run with tight cuts. I did have to dilute back down to 40% after the second run. This is only maybe my 5th AG product that I've made. Definitely the best so far. I am very anxious to let it age out completely.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by NZChris »

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:24 pm Chris, if you still have the work flow, it would be interesting to see it.
The information I worked from was very vague and I suspect it was really only good enough to satisfy the curiosity of tour groups and that it contained errors. I'm reluctant to pass it on as I might not have understood it correctly.

Searching the web for triple distilling will find you a variety of distilling protocols that have similarities and at least one flow chart.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Chauncey »

Stonecutter wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:38 pm
Dokimos wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:10 pm Bushmills or Jameson products... but better…..
So you mean Tullamore Dew
What do you all think? Good course of action?
Go for it. Post lots of pics.
Sorry to bump an old post but that was my first thought. Tully.
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Stonecutter »

Love me some Tullamore Dew.
How’s the progress Dokimos?
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

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you can make rubies in a microwave
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Re: Formulating a "Typical" Irish Whiskey

Post by Dokimos »

I didn't make what I'd talked about, sorry to disappoint. But I made a bourbon (60% corn, 20% malted rye, 20% malted barley) that I aged for 1.5 years that ended up tasting irish, funnily enough. It's because I took more heads and less tails than I should have, and aged with level 1 or 2 charred oak. If I blend it with sherry Aged single malt, I think it would be perfect since it has the bright, springy, fruity notes that irish blends have. Hope this helps.

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