Hypotheorical Warsh

[WattieBsCrick]

So I’ve been reading for a long time, I know what the answer is gonna be: go try one of these tried and true recipes an’ siddown…

But I can’t help it so imma axe anyways.

I got a tub running with 10lbs coarse corn meal, 5lbs malted ground barley, 4lbs of ground oats and 7lbs of sugar. Strike 150 for 2 hours in 3 gallons, added 9 gallons and pitched DADY yeast at 85, SG 1.048.

Any speculations as to whether this fool is about to blow himself up?

[Yummyrum]

So is it a real wash you have actually started …. Or are you just shooting shit ?

Hypothetical ( I take it thats what you mean’t by Hypotheorical ) generally would imply that you haven’t actually done it yet for real , but are musing the idea.

So where does the SG of 1.048 come from ? Is that a figure you have pulled from your hypothetical butt or is that what you have in reality .

Just trying to get clarification on the question .
Not being an arse .

[Corsaire]

It's pretty hard to blow yourself up with a ferment.

You also didn't specify what volume your ferment is. I'm guessing around 10 gal? The rest of this is me going off that assumption.

You didn't cook the corn, so the barley didn't convert those starches. I'm guessing that you'll end up with something nice, you've made a bastard child of a corn flavored sugar wash with an all grain. You're looking at a 6-7% wash, so it'll ferment just fine.

If it were me, I'd make an all grain run first and do a piggyback sugarhead on the spent grain. Imo that's the better use of those ingredients.

Read up on gelatinizing and perhaps jimbo's Bourbon and gumballhead while you're stilling this batch. Yup, that one's tried and true

[jonnys_spirit]

You’re probably going to blow yourself up playing around with dangerous toys. There’s at least two good reasons to stick with a t&t - you’ll get good results while you learn and there’s a bunch of existing documentation to research.

A couple comments about your recipe:
What are you trying to make?
Did you research different ways to use those ingredients effectively?
Did you use water? You didn’t mention how much..
Did you do a starch test and measure SG before adding sugar?
Why did you use sugar?
How much low wines do you expect to get on your strip runs from this?

In all honesty you should spend time researching and querying the forum with specific questions you can’t find answers to and don’t ask to be spoonfed.

So go do your homework and continue reading till your eyes bleed then keep reading until they bleed some more and good luck with your recipe!

[WattieBsCrick]

So is it a real wash you have actually started …. Or are you just shooting shit ?

Hypothetical ( I take it thats what you mean’t by Hypotheorical ) generally would imply that you haven’t actually done it yet for real , but are musing the idea.

So where does the SG of 1.048 come from ? Is that a figure you have pulled from your hypothetical butt or is that what you have in reality .

Just trying to get clarification on the question .
Not being an arse .

Yes, real wash. SG is what showed on the bulb.

[still_stirrin]

So I’ve been reading for a long time, I know what the answer is gonna be: go try one of these tried and true recipes an’ siddown…

Any speculations as to whether this fool is about to blow himself up?

Yep…chances are.

Some are “teachable”. Some aren’t.
ss

[6 Row Joe]

So I’ve been reading for a long time, I know what the answer is gonna be: go try one of these tried and true recipes an’ siddown…

Any speculations as to whether this fool is about to blow himself up?

Yep…chances are.

Some are “teachable”. Some aren’t.
ss

It's a scary world we live in now. LOL

[WattieBsCrick]

Okay, fine points from the previous gentlemen and I admit to being an unmitigated, destructive arse (it’s the blasting tech and gunsmith in me), but hear me out.

UJSSM theory in T&T Closed Recipes states that the mash doesn’t need to be cooked, but it accelerates the process. Sugar is added there to provide the majority of the alcohol while the grain offers the flavor and some slight sugar.

Operating under this theory, a temperature elevation to promote enzymatic breakdown with moisture should work quite well, and with oats historically being a bit problematic, why not play on the safer side?

[jonnys_spirit]

All in good fun WattieBsCrick!

How do you like it? That's all that really matters. Run it (twice) and then do an AG and compare (Hint: AG is probably going to be the winner).

Like Corsaire suggested - I'll do an AG then a similar piggyback sugarhead (with backset) to squeeze the last bits of flavor out of the spent grain and add some extra grain (mashed & converted appropriately) at the same time for a slight boost in flavor...

UJSSM utilizes recycling backset to enhance and build on the flavor contribution after a number of generations - which is a t&t so follow that protocol and experiment with different grains and backset..

1.048 is sorta low but just means more strip runs to collect enough low-wines for a spirit run.. 1.070'ish is ideal and so is following a strip/spirit run double distillation protocol..

Cheers,
j

[WattieBsCrick]

Well, so far it’s grainy and bubbling pretty hard, taking an occasional turn-over boil in the fermenter. Tastes funny, I don’t think she’s done yet.
I’ll know more in a few days when I start stripping.

[Corsaire]

If you're comparing this to a t&t I reckon it's closer to a sweetfeed. There the grains are for flavor, but they're heated. Sugar is the main fermentable there as well. But that's just semantics.

So what size is your ferment?

I can respect someone who just goes for it. I think lots of newbies get paralyzed by information overload. This isn't too far off a ujssm or a sweetfeed so I think op really did read a lot.
This isn't half as bad as some of the 'recipes' circulating online and should give a nice drop to sip on while contemplating your next ferment.

[WattieBsCrick]

If you're comparing this to a t&t I reckon it's closer to a sweetfeed. There the grains are for flavor, but they're heated. Sugar is the main fermentable there as well. But that's just semantics.

So what size is your ferment?

I can respect someone who just goes for it. I think lots of newbies get paralyzed by information overload. This isn't too far off a ujssm or a sweetfeed so I think op really did read a lot.
This isn't half as bad as some of the 'recipes' circulating online and should give a nice drop to sip on while contemplating your next ferment.

Thanks,I appreciate the hat tip, it’s a variation of sorts (YOU’RE A NOOB, YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE VARIATIONS - yeah, yeah) but I wanted to incorporate oats somehow without going completely bonkers. I figured why not experiment just a little and get some kind of acetone, methanol, ethanol, tail sours, SOMETHING out of a run to get familiar with the operation, kill two birds with one stone.

Size: 19 pounds of grain, 12 gallons of water and 7lbs of sugar in a 17-gallon feed barrel with a lock lid and airlock - I don’t think it’s really airtight but bloody well close. Still, the airlock isn’t bubbling even though the mash is getting wild.

I should add that there’s a heavy scent of strong alcohol present now, even before I get into the “office”.

[Saltbush Bill]

YOU’RE A NOOB, YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE VARIATIONS - yeah, yeah)

After you have spent eight or ten years and countless hours answering questions that begin with " why is my wash not working or......I put down this recipe I found on Ytube......or......I have no f#@% idea if this will work, but.....
That's if you ever spend that much time or contribute that much to the hobby, then you might begin to understand why it's recommended that Newbies stick to T&T recipes until they at least have a little understanding of what will work and what won't.

[WattieBsCrick]

YOU’RE A NOOB, YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE VARIATIONS - yeah, yeah)

After you have spent eight or ten years and countless hours answering questions that begin with " why is my wash not working or......I put down this recipe I found on Ytube......or......I have no f#@% idea if this will work, but.....
That's if you ever spend that much time or contribute that much to the hobby, then you might begin to understand why it's recommended that Newbies stick to T&T recipes until they at least have a little understanding of what will work and what won't.

I’ll make you a deal. File this thread in Folder 13 and I’ll not bother to ask again. I was under the impression that one might be able to discuss things here (being under Recipe Development, if seemed suitable), but if this is just for the pros (1,000 batches and up) that hate the whole idea that young punks might border on literacy and innovation, or trying new things that are bat$&!/ crazy, or that don’t just bow down and kiss everyone’s arse at every turn to be mindless replicas of those already present, then this forum isn’t for me.

I know this will work, I can see it happening, taste it, smell it, hear the vat working. I don’t know what the heck to call it when it’s done, thought sharing here may bring out some ideas, but it’ll definitely make likker, albeit a tad on the low ABV side. That’s on me for a low strike point and proper fudge job.

But yep, just another idiot bastard from the sticks that lives in the hills with too many guns, and forgot to shave that prickly hair offen my buttcheek the other day. I apologize for taking a giant unrefined sh!te on your art and stumbling across a computer to ask about it. To all the old-timers who posted their stuffs, I appreciate the points of reference and will just leave them properly where I found them and in excellent condition.

WB

[The Baker]

Hell, go for it.

Geoff

[NZChris]

You did ask a question on a forum, so expect wide a range of answers from a wide range of posters and don't expect that they will all tell you something you want to hear

Most of my first efforts turned out fine even though internet forums didn't exist and I didn't wax my crack.

[Corsaire]

Jeez. Relax.

You fully expected those comments. Grow some thicker skin.

Back on topic, you've just discovered that airlocks, lids and grommets can leak so they're not a reliable indicator. Funny thing is you did everything SBB usually recommends.

A low abv wash may be a good thing. Less yeast stress, cleaner flavors. There's probably more to it than that.

You should compare your batshit crazy innovative idea to the sweetfeed recipe. I stand by my statement that you'll be able to make a nice drop out of your ferment. A lot of us started on sugarwashes, and ujssm remains popular. But check out how they both incorporate leftovers from previous ferments into the new ones.

Have fun you idiot bastard. Don't forget to tell us how this one works out.

[Saltbush Bill]

Wattle, couple of points I'll make.
1 I have no objection and never have to people experimenting and learning in the ways they want in there own time.
2 I'm always here to answer a question......I'm not one to tell you to read read read. I don't object to most questions.
3 I'd rather deal with a "idiot bastard from the sticks that lives in the hills with too many guns, and forgot to shave that prickly hair offen my buttcheek" than I would with some of the supposedly highly educated folk that I have had to deal with in life.
4 I DO OBJECT to people who can't understand why we often reccomend that newbs stick to a known recipe that works......it's really very simple......it saves new and old alike a lot of time, effort and frustration.

[SassyFrass]

You asked what to call it. After you run it and make good cuts call it likker.
Just my suggestion. Lol
SF

[WattieBsCrick]

Not much going on tonight, just got liquid in there with a light cover of yeast and grain particles. Took a reading and got 1.006, figure I’ll start running it Sunday night if I can get my shitter fixed before then. Kid stuck a toy or something down the pipe and I can’t find it with anything.

[The Baker]

We had an old relative got a bit fixated on toilet paper.

Blocked the pipe so I had to remove the inspection cover. You have never seen so much paper...

Geoff

[Yummyrum]

We had an old relative got a bit fixated on toilet paper.

Christ Geoff , you’re 80 , LOL … what do you call an old relative

[The Baker]

We had an old relative got a bit fixated on toilet paper.

Christ Geoff , you’re 80 , LOL … what do you call an old relative

Well my dad died at 97; but truly he could have done without the last five years.

The toilet paper lady was probably in her eighties but, you see, it was maybe twenty years ago, when I was younger...

Geoff

P. S. Can't get away with anything here, yummyrum knows G.

[WattieBsCrick]

Post-distillation report, 11-gallon Chinese pot still:

I made the thumper puke when I first got going, trying to work out some kinks in the system and figure it all out. Yep, scorched some fingers and did some dumb things while sampling some Jefferson Reserve, but everything finally got working and I learned some things.

Pulled 5 quarts off the wort and started smelling a God-awful stink. Measured proof coming off at under 20 so I threw the rest out and went to bed. Came back the next day and saw the Foreshots jar, I eyeballed it a while and decided it wasn’t worth fooling with so I chucked it. Went down the row, sniffing, sampling, gagging at the tails. Just a very thin film of oil on them, you had to look pretty close.

Tossed it all back in the pot tonight and ran it slow with the thumper again, everything freshly washed and rinsed. This time I used pint jars for my feints. First one was strong, sharp and heavy sweet smell that was borderline undesirable but kept wanting to lick it. Plenty of heat at 140pr. Second pint was perfect on scent (light, oatey waft to it, could have used a hair more barley flavor but then again, I didn’t really cook the grains) and came in around 100pr. Third was 45pr and pretty watery, started to get that clean, wet dog smell, and the the fourth and fifth were just rank. I tossed pint number 5.

Cuts - At this point, I liked my second pint but wanted to have just a hint of heads in it, so I added about 4 oz to an empty quart jar and set the heads aside (remember, I’ve already dumped a quart of foreshots). Second pint went in the jar. I know there was SOME flavor in the tails that brings out other qualities, so a dash of that and then used the third jar to balance it for taste. Wound up at 92-94 proof. Strained with a coffee filter, saved 4oz for comparison, and charred a block of white oak 1x2x2-1/2 in the forge for a few seconds to get a #2 char, rinsed it off, plopped it in and put the white and now-Oaked products in the shop fridge to sample later. Saved almost a quart of heads and tails for “research”.

Taste - it’s a little strange, but enjoyable, would be better cold instead of room temp. Slightly earthy, a little sweet, a hint of something I can’t place but reminds me just a little bit of Scotch. I don’t like Scotch but this drink didn’t have the bold overtone of instant headache that I usually associate with Scotch.

I’m going to try it again after my AG mash runs, and see how a change in corn source and temperature protocol changes things.

[SmokyMtn]

If your gonna continue to use sugar. Don't bother heating the water. Dump grain, sugar, water, and yeast in. Give it a stir and let it eat. The rest boils down (no pun intended) to water, what it does and doesn't have.

Heating the water to melt the sugar might help slightly but I wouldn't call it a significant difference. I have never had a failed ferment by sticking to 1lb of grain to 1lb of sugar w/ 1 gallon of water. Edit: I wouldn't recommend going above 1.5 lbs of sugar per gallon, unless it's a T&T rec.