Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

And a few bags of potential ingredients fell into my cart. Got a 20kg bag each of cracked corn, whole barley and rolled oats. Almost grabbed the rolled wheat but restrained myself.

I have all three SebStar liquid enzyme products at my disposal and Angel yellow label yeast.

I'm thinking of some kind of whiskey and am curious about suggested grain bills given what I have. Of course I'm willing to get more of one thing or another, or use only a portion of something. I'd be happy to get a sack of malted barley or wheat if an all unmalted grain whiskey is known to be unpalatable.

I have a 55 gallon drum to ferment in, among other options like multiple 20 gallon brutes.

Suggestions?
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
User avatar
8Ball
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:12 am

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by 8Ball »

Grab some blackstrap and make horse feed whisky.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
User avatar
rubberduck71
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Eastern PA

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by rubberduck71 »

Angel Yeast will knock that out w/o additional enzymes (from my experience). Maybe 45 corn/45 barley/10 oats ratio of the 3 you have. If you had the wheat maybe 30/30/30/10. Oats content only for adding smoothness/mouthfeel, I assume.

Then do a sugarhead on spent grains. Helps you keep your paws off the AG stuff so it ages to full potential.

I have a Restaurant Store near me & have used the Angel Yeast on a pure corn meal ($19 US for 50# bag), and it's coming along nicely after 2 months. Sugarhead just went into glass with oak spirals & is showing promise as well. I did a quick search of their locations, and looks like they're not in Canada, but have to assume there's a similar chain supply store north of the border??? They also carry rye meal/pumpernickel & I bought a 50# bag of that as well ($34), rolled barley ($31), & oats ($36). The only wheats I found were in flour form, but if you're using Angel Yeast, no issues.

They have an online version of the brick & mortar stores & ship, but there's a cost to that: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ They carry all the same inventory.

I'm lucky in eastern Pennsylvania to have access to supply stores like that & also a few home brew wholesalers & even malting houses. Check it out where you are -- you may be surprised what's avail nearby.

Good luck & report back on results!
Duck (a fellow canuck)
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season
User avatar
Twisted Brick
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3760
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by Twisted Brick »

zed255 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:09 am
I'm thinking of some kind of whiskey and am curious about suggested grain bills given what I have. Of course I'm willing to get more of one thing or another, or use only a portion of something. I'd be happy to get a sack of malted barley or wheat if an all unmalted grain whiskey is known to be unpalatable.

Suggestions?
If you go with what you have, you might refine your flavors by following 8Ball's lead on roasting your barley and oats.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields

My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10344
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by shadylane »

Use a ziplock bag and a moist paper towel to test the whole barley.
If the barley will germinate, Malt some of it. :wink:

While your waiting.
Do a 100% corn mash with enzymes.
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

shadylane wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:08 pm Use a ziplock bag and a moist paper towel to test the whole barley.
If the barley will germinate, Malt some of it. :wink:

While your waiting.
Do a 100% corn mash with enzymes.
Geez, never thought about that! I have never malted anything before but it might be worth a shot. If it germinates would you malt at least half?
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by still_stirrin »

zed255 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:09 am… 20kg bag each of cracked corn
… whole barley
… and rolled oats.
Almost grabbed the rolled wheat but restrained myself. <— would be a nice addition too.

I have all three SebStar liquid enzyme products at my disposal and Angel yellow label yeast.

I'm thinking of some kind of whiskey and am curious about suggested grain bills given what I have…. Suggestions?
I’d make a bourbon with 60% corn + 25% barley + 15% oats.
If you had the wheat, I’d use 50% corn + 25% wheat + 15% barley + 10% oats.

The oats will add “mouthfeel” and help smooth the “rough edges” from the raw barley. Corn adds the “traditional” bourbon sweetness. Wheat adds a soft, cream-like flavor that really adds to the “bready” grain flavor.

It would make a great signature bourbon for you when aged on toasted and charred oak. But be dilligent when you make cuts so you don’t keep too much of the heads. A little of the “backend” will add a note of “earthiness” which can complement the prodeuct after aging. Keep the cask-entry proof between 60% to 65% ABV. Higher, and it’ll get sharper. Lower, and it’ll get sweeter.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
6 Row Joe
Rumrunner
Posts: 736
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by 6 Row Joe »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:56 am
zed255 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:09 am… 20kg bag each of cracked corn
… whole barley
… and rolled oats.
Almost grabbed the rolled wheat but restrained myself. <— would be a nice addition too.

I have all three SebStar liquid enzyme products at my disposal and Angel yellow label yeast.

I'm thinking of some kind of whiskey and am curious about suggested grain bills given what I have…. Suggestions?
I’d make a bourbon with 60% corn + 25% barley + 15% oats.
If you had the wheat, I’d use 50% corn + 25% wheat + 15% barley + 10% oats.

The oats will add “mouthfeel” and help smooth the “rough edges” from the raw barley. Corn adds the “traditional” bourbon sweetness. Wheat adds a soft, cream-like flavor that really adds to the “bready” grain flavor.

It would make a great signature bourbon for you when aged on toasted and charred oak. But be dilligent when you make cuts so you don’t keep too much of the heads. A little of the “backend” will add a note of “earthiness” which can complement the prodeuct after aging. Keep the cask-entry proof between 60% to 65% ABV. Higher, and it’ll get sharper. Lower, and it’ll get sweeter.
ss
Great info SS. I am taking notes!
I don't drink alcohol, I drink distilled spirits.
Therefore I'm not a alcoholic, I'm spiritual.
tiramisu
Swill Maker
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by tiramisu »

Just noticed we have a Peavy Mart not so far away... Very convenient.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3980
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by Deplorable »

TSC stock varies by geographic location. Here, the feed room never has anything but cracked and whole corn, sweet COB, and feed with pellets in it. I've only ever seen barley in there once, steam rolled corn on rare occasion, and the rare offering of whole oats. All in 50# sacks. I have three feed stores within a 5 mile drive, and unless I'm ordering by the pallet, I'm limited to what's available in store or, in the case of TSC available for online order and instore pick up. What some of you guys are paying for feed corn and corn meal is a steal compared to here in the Peoples Republic of Washington.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10344
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by shadylane »

zed255 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:15 pm
shadylane wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:08 pm Use a ziplock bag and a moist paper towel to test the whole barley.
If the barley will germinate, Malt some of it. :wink:
Geez, never thought about that! I have never malted anything before but it might be worth a shot. If it germinates would you malt at least half?
Keep it small, during the learning process.
You can learn more from several small attempts.
Than you can from one large fuck up. :lol:
tiramisu
Swill Maker
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by tiramisu »

Just realized we have a Peavy Mart close by. Very handy.
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

I misspoke on exactly what I had. The barley is rolled, not whole. The wheat I did not get was the whole grain. I may just go and get the wheat as well, they might have rolled wheat.

Either way I'm thinking I will use a large batch mashing technique to soften and hydrate the grains and use the Angel product to do parallel conversion and fermentation. I don't mind bourbon, but I might go with equal parts corn wheat barley and add oats for mouthfeel. I'm also thinking of using my mid-size fermenter (20 gal brute) for the first attempt. If that goes well then step up to the barrel.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10344
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by shadylane »

zed255 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:48 pm I misspoke on exactly what I had. The barley is rolled, not whole.
Do a gallon sized mash using 2 pounds of rolled barley and enzymes.
See how slimey and gelatinous it is. Totally different than crushed malted barley.
Rye is worst but only by a little bit. :lol:
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

Started a 5kg grain + 20L water test batch last weekend, 45% corn, 45% barley and 10% oats. just tossed into warm water and pitched the recommended (by percentage weight, 30g) amount of Angel Yellow Label. Wrapped the fermenter with a blanket and put a 12W heater stick on to keep it cozy. Has been merrily fizzing away for the last five days and still working off. I seem to have either some oats or barley that got through the crusher with minimal crush, so maybe next time I will tighten the gap some.

No signs of infection, though it is getting stirred regularly per Angel's instructions for this product. Seems to be chewing through the grains nicely, corn hulls are almost empty of starch. Curious to see what this turns into.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
quadra
Bootlegger
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:53 am

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by quadra »

Hey Zed were you able to buy your Sebstar and Angel yellow through Canadian suppliers?
User avatar
rubberduck71
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Eastern PA

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by rubberduck71 »

zed255 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:09 am Has been merrily fizzing away for the last five days and still working off.
Yeah, this stuff is magical.

Do a sugarhead on the "spent" grains. Helps keep your paws off the A/G while it ages.

Duck
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season
AcadianAlchemist
Novice
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:04 am
Location: New Scotland

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by AcadianAlchemist »

quadra wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:43 pm Hey Zed were you able to buy your Sebstar and Angel yellow through Canadian suppliers?
+1

I’ve been looking for the yellow label from a Canadian supplier for a while.
User avatar
rubberduck71
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Eastern PA

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by rubberduck71 »

AcadianAlchemist wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:33 am
quadra wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:43 pm Hey Zed were you able to buy your Sebstar and Angel yellow through Canadian suppliers?
+1

I’ve been looking for the yellow label from a Canadian supplier for a while.
It's been a while, but these sources worked for me getting the Angel Yeast:

https://www.ebay.com/p/28006985089 <-- I think this one can take 6-8 weeks to arrive, but it's cheaper...




You won't need enzymes with this stuff. It's already in there.

Duck
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

I did not get either my enzymes (not used in this test batch) nor the Angel products from a Canadian supplier. The Angel was from eBay since Amazon's Canadian site did not list it and listing on the 'Murican site wouldn't ship to Canada. The enzymes were bought when Enzytmash was still in business and I just sucked it up and paid my duties on them.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
opus345
Novice
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:59 pm

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by opus345 »

Zed,

Need an update please.

Any issues with the fermentation finishing? Infections, smell, etc.

Have you ran it yet? Yield, taste, etc.

Thanks.

opus
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

Little to report yet. Fermentation finished out in a little less than two weeks, as judged by no gasses being released on stirring. An infection (lacto maybe?) began to take as soon as fermentation finished, so the spent grain was drained and the wash put into a carboy in the refrigerator. I plan on stripping this soon. Refrigeration seems to have stalled the infection and the wash is gradually clearing, I expect a layer of custard like trub in the carboy.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
User avatar
zed255
Distiller
Posts: 1021
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Was at a Peavy Mart (formerly TSC) the other day...

Post by zed255 »

Got a dark purple(!) wash after clearing. Stripped it into low wines today. Yield seems low, this might have been a 6ish ABV fermentation. Might not have gotten a great crush on my grains thus preventing full parallel conversion and fermentation. Or maybe Angel likes a higher grain to water ratio, not sure. Low wines smell pretty good. Will see what I get on the spirit run.

Will try another with a finer crush first to see if that helps yield.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Post Reply