Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

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Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

I read a bunch of posts of people having miscellaneous issues with corn, and a bunch of different ways to solve it. From pre-ferments, two-stage ferments, boiling for hours, using corn meal or even flaked corn. I saw an opportunity to tackle it and make it easy.

Temps are in °F

First I wanted to empathize with the problem, so here is the grain bill (in order to keep it "scientific" the grain bill remains unchanged through the experiment)

12.5lbs cracked corn (cheap feed store stuff)
3 lbs malted rye (proximity, I know there are others with higher diastatic power)
10 oz malted barley (Breiss, could have used 6 row)
Sebstar high temp enzyme 1 tsp (thanks to @woodshed and the booners recipe for this)
sebamyl gl 1 tsp
Amalyse enzyme powder 1tsp

5 gallons boiling water directly into the cooler with the corn. This netted me a starting temp of 183°, cooled to 180° added Sebstar. I let this sit for about 5 hours, removed the lid, brought it down to 150, milled the other grain and threw them in, added sebamyl and amalyse powder. This was a difficult, slow sparge, my efficiency was terrible and I ended up putting a lot of work in to end up with 6 gallons at 1.046 starting gravity.

For the next batch I made a change, I ran the corn through my grain mill, I use a barley crusher, the gap is set to the width of a credit card. I left this unchanged. I also and added rice hulls at the weight of .5 oz per lb of sticky grain (sticky grains are corn, wheat and rye) so I used a total of 6.5 oz rice hulls.

This time I pre-heated my mash tun, drained and added 5 gallons of water at 195°, added the milled corn. After a thorough stirring I was at 180° I added the Sebstar, closed the cooler, let sit for 2 hours. I then pulled the lid stirred every 10 minutes or so until I hit 148°. Added the sebamyl and milled grain, closed it and let it sit for 2 hours. Starch test revealed full conversion.

I vorlaufed until clear (and I do mean clear) and fly sparged until the runnings hit 1.020. This netted me 8 gallons, which I vigorously boiled down to 6. This netted me a starting gravity of 1.078. This equates to a brewhouse efficiency of 80%, and a mash efficiency of 92%, which is very high considering it is mostly feed corn. It should ferment out to around 1.010-1.015 netting me an alcohol percentage right around 8%

For the next batch I wanted to verify my results were repeatable, so I did the same thing, the same way. I got 1.076 this time, which may just be due to not taking the runnings as far, or leaving a little behind somewhere. Still plenty good for the cost and effort.

That allowed me to do a full spirit run. This is a nice drink white, I think it will age beautifully.

That run allowed me to add 20% backset to the corn portion, or 1 gallon of my 5 in the corn was backset.

That single change made no difference in the output, next run hit 1.079 using the "sour mash" method

Note on pH in my case my starting water pH is 7.0. The addition of corn and malt brings my pH to 4.8 during conversion. Backset is not necessary, I did it for the flavor (I like sour mash whiskey).

Look, this is an easy way to run high percentages of difficult grain. Anyone could do this recipe with a turkey fryer, pot, thermometer and a cooler with a braid or false bottom. You don't need fancy equipment or frustration. Just replace the fly sparge with a batch sparge and eat the few percentage points of efficiency. The whole batch costs ~$10 in grain, if you need to add an extra pound of corn to hit your number that is about 32 cents, not worth losing your mind over.

I really believe fermenting off the grain saves work in the long run. I don't have to deal with siphoning off solids to go into my kettle, my fermenter clean ups are easy, and there is nothing of value left in the grain. It just goes into the compost pile, the birds and squirrels get their share and my garden gets the rest. What is running off by the time gravity hits 1.020 doesn't have any flavor, it is just barely sweet. By boiling the wash to concentrate you are ensuring there are no bugs in it, and kicking off some of the nasty stuff (DMS specifically, I wouldn't boil if you are making scotch).

You could certainly skip the boil step and just run a larger fermenter, or make a smaller batch that will fit your fermenter, but a 1-2 hour boil isn't that much energy or effort. You don't need to chill, dump it hot into your fermenter to sanitize anything you miss, let it cool overnight and pitch your favorite yeast in the morning.

Most of the time in this is just waiting on conversion, breakdown, and runoff; effort is pretty low, especially if you have a brewing pump.

When you siphon off from your fermenter to your still save a pint jar of the stuff left in the fermenter, throw it in the fridge to store. Add it in to the mash or the boil, the dead yeast make great nutrient for your new yeast, or for your yeast colony.

So to sum it up, run the corn through the mill, preheat your mash tun, dump the preheat water, add corn and 5 gallons of water or water/backset, stir, add enzyme, cover. 2 hours. Drop temp to 148, add milled grains, rice hulls and enzyme 2,stir to make sure all chunks are broken up, rest 2 hours, run it off and boil. Done.

I ran this again last night and was pedantic about everything and hit a too high efficiency number so now I have too high starting gravity. This recipe isn't intended to be optimized, just easy.

If you prefer wheat to rye just swap them out, want to do a 5 gallon batch multiply ingredients by 5 divide by 6.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by bluc »

Interesting you managed to recirc and flysparge without rice hulls. How course was the corn ground?
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Under the first iteration it was just cracked corn.. And was a challenge further iterations used rice hulls.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by The Baker »

I am getting started on Uncle Jessie's Simple Sour Mash.
And your mention of rice hulls reminded me...

My wife just got a big bag of popcorn for watching the Australian Rules footie grand final on telly.
Our son came.
(Because we are old he was making sure we are okay what with Covid and all.
Sort of a carer....)

Anyway we didn't eat much, I had a nibble and was still spitting out bran bits a couple of hours later,
and I took this big bag into the still area...

I will put a bit, half a handful or so, into each 80 litre ferment with the grain and it might break it up a bit like the rice hulls.
Should be enough to last about a year.

Waste not...!

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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

As long as it is unsalted it would be a good experiment. I was thinking about popcorn for the same reason. No idea what it would do, and rice hulls are so cheap I haven't really wanted to go to the trouble. I think the sugar and proteins in popcorn are a little different from feed corn as well, but if your just using it for fluff, or as sort of a pre-gelatinizing step I think it could work well. You must be able to buy bulk popcorn cheaply, pop it, shred it, skip the gelatinization.

Post script on the original post. That first batch ended up at 1.046 og. It was not a good time, sparge took hours, I ran it very slowly or it would just clog up and stop. Still tasted good off the still though :) The rice hulls, and the course grind for the corn are probably the only reason that this method works. I am going to run it again today, and try a shorter gelatinizing rest, and try to shorten the saccharification rest doing an iodine test every 15 minutes. If I can get this down to something that is done in under 5 hours it will be a victory. The boil takes time no matter what, but its key to efficiency.

I am also considering breaking out the old 10 gallon brewing system I retired due to lack of being able to consume 10 gallons of beer at a time. I could make an almost full still charge in just about a half hour longer than this takes me now. Recipe optimization first.

I would also like to do the same recipe but replace the entire corn portion with oats. Just need to find a cheap source of oats.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by The Baker »

I am only using the popcorn because it is there and would be thrown out.
And I will use such a small amount that it will not make much difference anyway, really.
As for the salt, the same applies. It is salted but the amount of salt on half a handful or even a handful of popcorn
will make little difference to anything. In an 80 litre ferment.

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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Half way through todays mash. I changed 2 things, one I bumped up the rice hulls to 7 oz, just to try and speed the run off, and I changed from 5 gallons of water at 195° dough in to 4 gallons of boiling (203.5°). That should create a lesser final volume and it is still a very thin mash. Here is what my milled cracked corn looks like.
1002211027.jpg
I did a starch test 30 minutes in to the gelatinization rest, came out clear so the high temp enzyme is working well.
1002211124a.jpg
I pulled a gravity reading of 1.056 which seems low for 4 gallons of liquid with 12.5 lbs of corn. I let it go another hour and still see 1.056 so that is non conclusive. There is something trapped or something I am not seeing, I also had to get a new bag of corn since I ran out, so the efficiency might be a little different, but not that much. I went ahead and added a gallon of room temp backset, enzymes and the other grains bringing temp down to 147°. I will add more info when I have final efficiency numbers. Right now it looks like a 30 minute gel rest is all that is required. Shorter Sacch. rest test will have to wait, I have some things to do this afternoon so this is just going to sit a few hours and do its thing.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

You said you believed distilling off grain saved time in the long run
Just for the debate i would disagree
A thumper setup and steam injection is easy peasy
And you recoop 100% of your alcohol
Alot of guys on here do it.
No straining or sparging or pressing.
Water in the boiler
Slop in the thumper .
And as santa would say,FULL POWER.
I stripped almost 50 gallons today Without much effort
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

If you have steam injection then yeah, you are probably right. I don't. Remember I am trying to get something setup where someone with a basic pot still, a burner, a pot, a cooler with false bottom and a thermometer can make a good, all grain without a ton of time or effort into it. We are talking bottom dollar for equipment. If you dont already have the burner for your still $70 for a turkey friar at home depot which gets you your burner and pot, $17 for a walmart cooler, a DIY or $10 bazooka braid, and a ball valve. Add a digital thermometer off of amazon for $17 if you havent got one lying round. Right around $100-125 investment for all grain, a savvy person will buy a once used turkey fryer off craigslist for free or $20, scrub it and be on their way. Add a corona mill or grain mill if you don't have a brew shop near by. Then whatever they put into their still build.

Vorlauf and sparge, or even just batch sparge, or take the 15% efficiency loss and do a single sparge out (I pay 19 cents a pound for feed corn at TSC, its not a hardship) is a whole lot easier than pulling your grain into a mop bucket and squeezing it. Everything I know about brewing wants me to ferment off grain. I will eventually do some side by sides to test this.

Leaving the grain behind also leaves your fermenters easy to clean, and yeast re-use or harvesting is easy when there is no grain to deal with. If you are using quality yeast that's a nice savings. The clean up affair is a big deal when your running a bunch of ferments at once, and sparging doesn't take long, its all gravity fed if you take the time to put your cooler above your boil kettle. You can spread the grain in your garden for compost without worrying about your dogs getting drunk too :)

Its certainly not as easy as UJSSM, or throwing some hot water in something and walking away, but the outcomes are different as well.

Plus, if you can make your wash this way you can make beer...
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by bluc »

I started fermenting off grain mashing and sparging corn I gave up and started squeezing am quickly getting sick of squeezing and am moving to steam
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

bluc wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:55 pm I started fermenting off grain mashing and sparging corn I gave up and started squeezing am quickly getting sick of squeezing and am moving to steam
When you get ur steamer.you'll never look back
All you need is a pot and a thumper.
The rest is history
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by bluc »

:thumbup: Yea cant wait I am building a steam generator to avoid long heat up time.
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by ThomasBrewer »

dukethebeagle120 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:02 pm When you get ur steamer.you'll never look back
All you need is a pot and a thumper.
The rest is history
Along those lines, why not just run two thumpers? Use your clear mash in the boiler and fill one of the thumpers with the wet grain.
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I don’t mind squeezing a bag of corn muck. Doesn’t take that long and it’s easy to dispose of spent grain - after a sugarhead…

A thumper full of boiling hot porridge doesn’t sound fun? How do you guys do multiple strips in a day and deal with the hot slop after a steam strip?
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by bluc »

Good point.
I am hoping i can do all mine in one strip run just the thick slop off bottom. I have 120l boiler and just under 60l grain slop.
Will add that too the thin liquid i drain off the trub. For the spirit run.
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Ferment off the grain and run a plated column, then you don't have to deal with all that mess :)
1002211702.jpg
This was my runoff speed right before I cut the run, already boiling. This is off of a 10 gallon cooler with false bottom. Everything was quick today. I did walk away from the project to do a couple other things while Sachh. was happening so it went for 3 hours, but the corn was fully converted so that may have been done in a half hour for all I know. Ended up with a bit over 6 gallons at 1.074, so still around 80% efficient (and I forgot the powdered amylase, so evidently it isn't doing much). Next batch I will shorten the Gel rest to 30 minutes and see if extraction goes down. That would be pretty good, pre-heat is about 30, while that's happening I prep most of the stuff for the rest of the batch. 30 minutes for Gel, 60 for Sachh. 30 for runoff and 60 for boil. 3 hours a batch on all grain, would be another 30 minutes if I want to chill and pitch immediately, works for me.

Really you don't even have to boil, you would just need a little larger fermenter. I like the boil, gives me consistent results, good sanitary wash. A sachet of yeast cost twice what the batch of corn does so I will do whatever I can to preserve it. I expect to pull 6-8 generations off my yeast, I will split it at gen 2, so I will get 10-15 ferments out of a pack of yeast. Washing and glycol storage could push it further, but that's work.

You could ferment your gumball the same day as you do your mash, you have clean, ready to play with grain, that is nice and hot to dissolve your sugar with just sitting in the cooler.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:29 pm
dukethebeagle120 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:02 pm When you get ur steamer.you'll never look back
All you need is a pot and a thumper.
The rest is history
Along those lines, why not just run two thumpers? Use your clear mash in the boiler and fill one of the thumpers with the wet grain.
Thats ok on a new barrel of mash
But inusually end up with way more slop then clear
My last mash was at 2.5 lbs per gallon water
So you dont end up with much clear
The other reason is when i strip large batches like yesterday i striped 50 gallons.
Your boiler never stops.
When its hot and steaming the slop in the thumper reaches 0 % abv
I switch out the keg with the slop in it for another.
Before i swirch it the top of my colunm is removed and hot water from my hot water heater is added
Then i plug it back in
While its heating back up i put on another keg full of slop reattach the linearm and within 10 minutes shes thumping again.
From unplugging the boiler to starting to thump again maybe takes 20 minutes if that
The heatup time is drastically diminished this way.
It practically never stops thumping
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:40 pm I don’t mind squeezing a bag of corn muck. Doesn’t take that long and it’s easy to dispose of spent grain - after a sugarhead…

A thumper full of boiling hot porridge doesn’t sound fun? How do you guys do multiple strips in a day and deal with the hot slop after a steam strip?
As far as the hot porridge,safety first.ive learned by trial and error.even small burns hurt.
Long pants,boots,a coat,and welder gloves.
I take 5 gallon buckets and the handles on a keg hook nice on the side of a bucket
Then just lift slowly to dump.almost like a teeter totter.
This way even when its nearly full its not heavy.your onlr lifting the bottom of the keg
I hàve 2 15.5 gallon kegs so switching out is no problem..
The slop gets dumped in my compost pile
My steam boiler is a 50ltr.
I use smaller so heat times are reduced.
I am looking for 3 more 15.5 gallon kegs.
Then i will be able to run almost constantley when doing large batches
Just switching out the hot kegs for fresh ones and topping up the steam boiler between switches
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

dukethebeagle120 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:20 am
As far as the hot porridge,safety first.ive learned by trial and error.even small burns hurt.
Long pants,boots,a coat,and welder gloves.
Again, ferment off the grain, put a drain valve in the bottom of your thumper/pot and fill port on top avoid all this mess. Put a bucket under it and open the ball valve.

At some point you have to deal with the grain, just make a choice on where that is in your system. For me it is a lot easier to leave it in the mash tun, let it cool overnight and empty it in the morning. I avoid the astringency that comes along with leaving the grain in and deal with the mess early in the process.

I would much rather not have to deal with grain in the middle of a distillation day, there is enough other stuff going on.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Ben wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:11 am
dukethebeagle120 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:20 am
As far as the hot porridge,safety first.ive learned by trial and error.even small burns hurt.
Long pants,boots,a coat,and welder gloves.
Again, ferment off the grain, put a drain valve in the bottom of your thumper/pot and fill port on top avoid all this mess. Put a bucket under it and open the ball valve.

At some point you have to deal with the grain, just make a choice on where that is in your system. For me it is a lot easier to leave it in the mash tun, let it cool overnight and empty it in the morning. I avoid the astringency that comes along with leaving the grain in and deal with the mess early in the process.

I would much rather not have to deal with grain in the middle of a distillation day, there is enough other stuff going on.
I like the debate.
Imho,i like my process better.
But hey,thats what this hobby is about.different ways of doing thing.
And hd is the place for learning and trying new thing.
Great thread my friend
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Thanks, and I agree the debate is worth while. My still was built around my brewery, IE it is electric via a submerged element, just like my kettles. It made the most sense to just leave the grain at the mash tun. I have tried fermenting on the grain and racking, didn't care for that, I felt like I was leaving a lot behind (gumball would recover some of this I guess). Steam makes sense if you are set up for it, and if my brewery was powered off a steam generator I would certainly be steam distilling.

I have tried direct fire on grain before when I was running on propane, always managed to burn the grain. So now I just get rid of it early.
:)
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by The Baker »

My nephew has an automatic brewing system. Maybe a grainfather but I think it has a German name.
For his still.
When he wants to drain the grain he lifts it out in a bag with a little gantry.
Raises it up and moves it to one side...

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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by CoogeeBoy »

I wish I had never found this discussion!

To me, someone who has a T500 but is in the procrastination stage of what next (almost certainly a flute btw) it helps me understand why you would use a thumper, both for flavour and enhanced recovery, vs straining the mash and running via a plated flute.

I have an idea as to how much wash or mash is lost by straining the grains and can see the benefit of the thumper but was leaning towards the plated flute column to minimise the number of runs I expect I would need to do to get a drinkable product (based on my experience with the T500).

Whilst I am a gin fiend and I am making a lot to practice, I would like to be able to produce enough AG to make enough whisky to justify a barrel (which is what I drink when I am in lockdown mode, so I drink a lot!)

Confused, but not dumbfounded (well, maybe the "founded" is questionable).

Taking it all into consideration and "still" learning!
Taking a break while I get a new still completed....
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Pick your still type and heat source then determine the brewing equipment off of that, unless you want to make beer I'm which case you may as well just run the plated column.

Fyi I don't think there is much left in the grain when sparge is done. You've pulled down to 2% sugar and is flavor less. You get beyondthis and it starts tasting funny and ph shoots up.
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Ben wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:13 pm Pick your still type and heat source then determine the brewing equipment off of that, unless you want to make beer I'm which case you may as well just run the plated column.

Fyi I don't think there is much left in the grain when sparge is done. You've pulled down to 2% sugar and is flavor less. You get beyondthis and it starts tasting funny and ph shoots up.
Cheers
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Sporacle »

CoogeeBoy wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:20 pm I wish I had never found this discussion!

To me, someone who has a T500 but is in the procrastination stage of what next (almost certainly a flute btw) it helps me understand why you would use a thumper, both for flavour and enhanced recovery, vs straining the mash and running via a plated flute.

I have an idea as to how much wash or mash is lost by straining the grains and can see the benefit of the thumper but was leaning towards the plated flute column to minimise the number of runs I expect I would need to do to get a drinkable product (based on my experience with the T500).

Whilst I am a gin fiend and I am making a lot to practice, I would like to be able to produce enough AG to make enough whisky to justify a barrel (which is what I drink when I am in lockdown mode, so I drink a lot!)

Confused, but not dumbfounded (well, maybe the "founded" is questionable).

Taking it all into consideration and "still" learning!
A CCVM and a small mini pot for infusions, sorry off topic :thumbup:
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Alright, back on track with the recipe part of the program:

Ran the last batch yesterday. I will start another mash today or tomorrow.

Targets for next mash:

Pre-heat cooler (10 gal) 10 mins with 2 gallons boiling water, dump water, add fresh boiling water then corn.

3 gallons strike water @ boiling. Boiling for me is 203. I would actually prefer to mash the corn even thicker if I could, it would allow me to double the batch in a 10 gallon cooler and hasten the sparge but this thick mash should allow the enzymes to really chew through the corn.

I will start iodine testing at 15 minutes in. Once starch is fully converted I am going to check gravity, I will start checking gravity every 15 minutes and look for a change. I want to know when the earliest I can possibly drop down to mash in temp is. Whatever time I can save on the corn is just time off the end on this recipe. I am sort of wondering if the gel rest is even necessary with the enzymes and milled corn.

Once those readings are stable I will drop to mash in temp (150) add the rest of my grain, and I will starch test every 15 minutes. Again, if I can get it done faster I want to. I am going to batch sparge this rather than fly, because anyone can do that with minimal equipment, and it will minimize my boil off requirement. If I can cut the boil time to 30 minutes or so that would be ideal. I don't know if it is possible though. Last boil was 2 hours, its a lot of energy/fuel use, so if I can pull less water out of the grain, and still get a reasonable amount of sugar rinsed out I will.

This whole procedure applies even if you are fermenting on the grain, it really doesn't matter. I won't cut corners that sacrifice quality, but I want to be efficient about it.

Ideally I want the recipe to read like this:

x lbs of corn, x oz rice hulls, x volume of boiling water, add enzyme, rest x minutes
drop temp with x volume water, add grain, add enzyme 2, rest x minutes
batch sparge with x volume water at x temp
boil to final volume

Hopefully it will be a recipe anyone can follow to have a successful AG "bourbon style" or whatever corn base thing they want.

Also of importance is the ability to double the volume and run this 2-3 times in a day. If I can make 24 or 36 gallons of wash in the time it was taking me to make 5 at the beginning of this then I call that a win.
:)
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Ben
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Ben »

Life has been a tornado, yesterday I decided to run this again, but since I had a lot going on I went for a different set of data points, 4 hour gel rest, 2 hour mash rest, looking to see how fermentable I can get this thing. I won't know until it is done fermenting what that actually equates to. I also ran a 12 gallon batch instead of a single 6.5, just needed to fill fermenters. That led to its own set of issues but won't effect the testing goals

For whatever reason my sparge took forever, and my efficiency dropped to 80%, should have stirred more probably, just didn't have any room in the mash tun. OG is 1.064, this has been finishing pretty consistently at 1.018. Will the longer rests make it more fermentable? Ultimately brewhouse efficiency isn't as important as how much alcohol is coming out, which is second to how good the product is.

Either way, fermenters are full for now.
:)
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still_stirrin
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by still_stirrin »

Ben wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am Life has been a tornado, yesterday I decided to run this again, but since I had a lot going on I went for a different set of data points, 4 hour gel rest, 2 hour mash rest, looking to see how fermentable I can get this thing. I won't know until it is done fermenting what that actually equates to. I also ran a 12 gallon batch instead of a single 6.5, just needed to fill fermenters. That led to its own set of issues but won't effect the testing goals

For whatever reason my sparge took forever, and my efficiency dropped to 80%, should have stirred more probably, just didn't have any room in the mash tun. OG is 1.064, this has been finishing pretty consistently at 1.018. Will the longer rests make it more fermentable? Ultimately brewhouse efficiency isn't as important as how much alcohol is coming out, which is second to how good the product is.

Either way, fermenters are full for now.
I find that I need to hold the mash longer for recipes with more than 60% corn. I mill to a coarse flour, or a fine cornmeal consistency. Typically, I gelatinize the corn for 2-1/2 to 3 hours too. But the saccarification rest (@ 145-148*F) is usually 3 hours, sometimes 3-1/2 hours. And I too lauter and ferment off-the-grain. My brewhouse efficiency is 75% +/- 2%. My bourbons usually finish at unity (1.000) to 1.005.

So, I believe you’re “in the right ballpark”.
ss
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Dancing4dan
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Re: Simplifying all grain Bourbon

Post by Dancing4dan »

still_stirrin wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:22 am
Ben wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am Life has been a tornado, yesterday I decided to run this again, but since I had a lot going on I went for a different set of data points, 4 hour gel rest, 2 hour mash rest, looking to see how fermentable I can get this thing. I won't know until it is done fermenting what that actually equates to. I also ran a 12 gallon batch instead of a single 6.5, just needed to fill fermenters. That led to its own set of issues but won't effect the testing goals

For whatever reason my sparge took forever, and my efficiency dropped to 80%, should have stirred more probably, just didn't have any room in the mash tun. OG is 1.064, this has been finishing pretty consistently at 1.018. Will the longer rests make it more fermentable? Ultimately brewhouse efficiency isn't as important as how much alcohol is coming out, which is second to how good the product is.

Either way, fermenters are full for now.
I find that I need to hold the mash longer for recipes with more than 60% corn. I mill to a coarse flour, or a fine cornmeal consistency. Typically, I gelatinize the corn for 2-1/2 to 3 hours too. But the saccarification rest (@ 145-148*F) is usually 3 hours, sometimes 3-1/2 hours. And I too lauter and ferment off-the-grain. My brewhouse efficiency is 75% +/- 2%. My bourbons usually finish at unity (1.000) to 1.005.

So, I believe you’re “in the right ballpark”.
ss
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