All sweet corn mash
Moderator: Site Moderator
All sweet corn mash
Firstly, I hope I’m putting this in the right place. It’s really just gonna be my ramblings and if y’all wanna chime in on all the dumb ish I’m doing, feel free… I’m here to learn.
Secondly, I’m mostly confident that I’ll never do this again. Hahaha But, again… as long as I learn from it it’s worthwhile. This is my first all grain batch as well.
This post is 100% going to be about everything leading up to it going into the still. So everything to that point is fair game.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of info about 100% all grain fresh sweet corn mashes, probably for good reason. Anywho… here goes nothing.
What research I was able to dig up lead me to believe that 75#/34kg (off the cob) of sweet corn was going to be a good starting point. Someone advised that getting it off the cob and blanched within a few hours of being picked was ideal (to prevent sugar being turned into starch as I recall). I happen to live a few blocks away from a farmer’s sweet corn field, and he was very accommodating as he’s just an old farmer that does it for fun and to keep active.
I processed 106#/48.2kg from ~26 or so dozen ears (a little over 300 ears). Blanched and frozen as stated above. After sorting out some equipment shortcomings and laying out my process, I decided to do a 5#/2.27kg test batch for gravity’s sake, primarily. Here’s some numbers I used for process sake.
Sweet corn is approximately 75% water. Dried grain recipes usually target 1.5L of water/1# (.45kg) of grain. (That’s the number I settled on anyhow.)
I’ll save you all the jacked up conversions, but just before having a mental breakdown I came to 1 US gallon and 56 and 1/3 US fl ounces of water per 5# (2.27kg) batch. Extrapolation won’t be hard for the full mash.
Process: Add corn and water to pot, heat it up and blend w/ immersion blender. I ran it at 190*Freedom (87*C) for 60 UK minutes (didn’t want to leave them out).
Drop temp ever so slightly, check pH and add citric acid (1/4 tsp) to lower to 5.6. Added 1tsp gypsum. Added 2.5ml of SEBStar HTL & Held at 180*/82* for 60 min. Dropped temp to 140*/60* adjusted pH to 5.4 with citric acid and added 1tsp of Diazyme x4 and held for 60 min then let rest overnight covered.
Gravity readings: OG after gelatinizing 1.018. After HTL: 1.020 After 60 min Diazyme x4 hold: 1.024.
That’s where I’m at right now.
If you made it this far, well… sorry. Haha
Secondly, I’m mostly confident that I’ll never do this again. Hahaha But, again… as long as I learn from it it’s worthwhile. This is my first all grain batch as well.
This post is 100% going to be about everything leading up to it going into the still. So everything to that point is fair game.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of info about 100% all grain fresh sweet corn mashes, probably for good reason. Anywho… here goes nothing.
What research I was able to dig up lead me to believe that 75#/34kg (off the cob) of sweet corn was going to be a good starting point. Someone advised that getting it off the cob and blanched within a few hours of being picked was ideal (to prevent sugar being turned into starch as I recall). I happen to live a few blocks away from a farmer’s sweet corn field, and he was very accommodating as he’s just an old farmer that does it for fun and to keep active.
I processed 106#/48.2kg from ~26 or so dozen ears (a little over 300 ears). Blanched and frozen as stated above. After sorting out some equipment shortcomings and laying out my process, I decided to do a 5#/2.27kg test batch for gravity’s sake, primarily. Here’s some numbers I used for process sake.
Sweet corn is approximately 75% water. Dried grain recipes usually target 1.5L of water/1# (.45kg) of grain. (That’s the number I settled on anyhow.)
I’ll save you all the jacked up conversions, but just before having a mental breakdown I came to 1 US gallon and 56 and 1/3 US fl ounces of water per 5# (2.27kg) batch. Extrapolation won’t be hard for the full mash.
Process: Add corn and water to pot, heat it up and blend w/ immersion blender. I ran it at 190*Freedom (87*C) for 60 UK minutes (didn’t want to leave them out).
Drop temp ever so slightly, check pH and add citric acid (1/4 tsp) to lower to 5.6. Added 1tsp gypsum. Added 2.5ml of SEBStar HTL & Held at 180*/82* for 60 min. Dropped temp to 140*/60* adjusted pH to 5.4 with citric acid and added 1tsp of Diazyme x4 and held for 60 min then let rest overnight covered.
Gravity readings: OG after gelatinizing 1.018. After HTL: 1.020 After 60 min Diazyme x4 hold: 1.024.
That’s where I’m at right now.
If you made it this far, well… sorry. Haha
Last edited by god910 on Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: All sweet corn mash
I’ll update the gravity after the overnight, but I don’t expect it to change much. I have a VERY small amount of iodine to test with and it looked good. I think if anything the low gravity readings are due to either (most likely) too much water (it never really got super thick) as this is an experiment/trial and I wondered if it would be too much due to it being fresh/un-dried corn or (less likely) incomplete gelatinization. But I’m unfamiliar with how I’d know if that happened. Data lends to the fact that my gel procedure should have been more than sufficient.
Re: All sweet corn mash
Be interested to see how this goes.
- Windy City
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: All sweet corn mash
I recently made a sweet corn bourbon
Check out this thread
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=84549
Did you grind the corn?
Check out this thread
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=84549
Did you grind the corn?
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
- still_stirrin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10344
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
- Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play
Re: All sweet corn mash
Didja’ mill the corn? If you used whole kernels, you left most of the starch in the kernel. After harvesting the grain, you must grind it to a coarse corn meal consistency. Then, when you add the hot water, it’ll turn to porridge. That’s when you need the HTL enzymes.god910 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:41 pm...I think, if anything the low gravity readings are due to either (most likely) too much water (it never really got super thick) as this is an experiment/trial and I wondered if it would be too much due to it being fresh/un-dried corn or (less likely) incomplete gelatinization…
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
- Windy City
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: All sweet corn mash
If you check the link I posted above, I used a meat grinder.
MCH did his frozen and used a Corona mill
You will not get good conversion without grinding
Also if you grind it thawed like I did. It will be more of a consistency of loose dough
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Re: All sweet corn mash
Crap. Sorry… yes, I used an immersion blender once it was in the pot and warm. I’ll edit the original for clarification. @windy city, I’ll check er out. I can use all the help I can get. Hahaha
I DEFINITELY never got a porridge consistency, I’m thinking due to too much water. My gravity this morning had a negligible increase (1.025) like we knew would happen. I’m guessing just too much water. But that’s why I did a small batch first, figured I’d screw up the water volume. I’m going to get more iodine to check, but I’m pretty confident that the test I ran last night was sufficient. Need it on hand anyway.
I DEFINITELY never got a porridge consistency, I’m thinking due to too much water. My gravity this morning had a negligible increase (1.025) like we knew would happen. I’m guessing just too much water. But that’s why I did a small batch first, figured I’d screw up the water volume. I’m going to get more iodine to check, but I’m pretty confident that the test I ran last night was sufficient. Need it on hand anyway.
- Windy City
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: All sweet corn mash
I found 8 pounds per gallon to be a good number.
That gave me a 1.050 SG
That gave me a 1.050 SG
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Re: All sweet corn mash
Yeah, I was reading through your post just now. I’d be happy with 1.050. And since you were using hydrated corn it should come close if I just back the water down. Should give me ~5.2% and over 20g to run. I knew I wasn’t gonna walk away with 4g off the still, was more concerned w/ the flavor. And just like you said in your post, not gonna do it again, but FOR SCIENCE! Had to try once. HahaWindy City wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:28 am I found 8 pounds per gallon to be a good number.
That gave me a 1.050 SG
Plus… I have a buttload of corn sugar here, if I really feel like bumping it up. I mean… it’s CORN SUGAR. hahaha
- still_stirrin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10344
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
- Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play
Re: All sweet corn mash
Does it taste like corn? hahaha
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Re: All sweet corn mash
It does add a nice flavor to my ciders. This is staying virgin though, no matter how small the output is.
- rubberduck71
- Site Donor
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
- Location: Eastern PA
Re: All sweet corn mash
Corn Sugar in cider for flavor? Please tell me more! Or do you have a link to brewers, reddit, or some other forum on that?
I currently have a pineapple and also a green apple cider on tap right now. There's a 6 gal carboy waiting in the wings for likely a pumpkin spice recipe (all mentioned used Nottingham gen 1, 2, & 3). Also a new batch with gen 1 Belle Saisson yeast getting ready for siphoning into secondary.
(sorry for hijack)
Duck
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season
Re: All sweet corn mash
No worries… it reminded me to update! (I’ll address the cider below the update).
I got everything gel’d, enzymed’d and in the barrel. After much though I went with a co-pitch of baker’s yeast and US-04. I made a big fatty starter of the US-04 and let it cook for a day or so then primed the baker’s (~200g) and shoved it in today. My final was only 1.030 on refract. But I ain’t mad. I know it was probably overkill, but I added in some extra water to make the cap more manageable. (The heifer just wanted to keep rising. And I work 24 hour shifts so I wanted my good flavor stuff in the juice w/o worrying about punching down.)
I’m also new to running the still, only 3 Birdwatchers through it so far, so I figured a lower gravity higher volume will give me more time sitting next to er listening to some Delta Blues and sipping on the weird crap that I’ve made so far.
Overall I’m happy with how everything has turned out, and I’ll update with more as she goes.
Cider er all: I have a 5g keg of mulled pear (flavored) apple cider cold aging right now, 6g of a HEAVY cinnamon/spiced cider starting very soon (hoping for some good Hot Dickens for winter/Xmas etc). I got my start in ciders (most people argue the stuff I make is carbonated apple wine because MOMMA AIN’T RAISE NO b*%#ch. I got my fans from my 14% raspberry pear cider that I slowly aged over 6 years. Don’t ask… because I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to reproduce it. It was a folly that took ~6 months before I could even stick my nose over the opening of the carboy. Acetone, balls, you name it and it smelled like it. But MAN… it was the best cider I’ve ever had.
The corn sugar has always added a sweet whisp, almost like lactose in that milky sort of tone.
I also just started my first Amarone which is bonkers. Just… crazy. 50 day cold ferm ON OAK?!? Whuuuuuuut? Hahaha
I got everything gel’d, enzymed’d and in the barrel. After much though I went with a co-pitch of baker’s yeast and US-04. I made a big fatty starter of the US-04 and let it cook for a day or so then primed the baker’s (~200g) and shoved it in today. My final was only 1.030 on refract. But I ain’t mad. I know it was probably overkill, but I added in some extra water to make the cap more manageable. (The heifer just wanted to keep rising. And I work 24 hour shifts so I wanted my good flavor stuff in the juice w/o worrying about punching down.)
I’m also new to running the still, only 3 Birdwatchers through it so far, so I figured a lower gravity higher volume will give me more time sitting next to er listening to some Delta Blues and sipping on the weird crap that I’ve made so far.
Overall I’m happy with how everything has turned out, and I’ll update with more as she goes.
Cider er all: I have a 5g keg of mulled pear (flavored) apple cider cold aging right now, 6g of a HEAVY cinnamon/spiced cider starting very soon (hoping for some good Hot Dickens for winter/Xmas etc). I got my start in ciders (most people argue the stuff I make is carbonated apple wine because MOMMA AIN’T RAISE NO b*%#ch. I got my fans from my 14% raspberry pear cider that I slowly aged over 6 years. Don’t ask… because I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to reproduce it. It was a folly that took ~6 months before I could even stick my nose over the opening of the carboy. Acetone, balls, you name it and it smelled like it. But MAN… it was the best cider I’ve ever had.
The corn sugar has always added a sweet whisp, almost like lactose in that milky sort of tone.
I also just started my first Amarone which is bonkers. Just… crazy. 50 day cold ferm ON OAK?!? Whuuuuuuut? Hahaha
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9748
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: All sweet corn mash
It all came down to, as I understand, just different flavor profiles. (And 100% because I had a sachet of 5 year expired US-04. Hahaha I wanted to see if it was still useable and boy howdy was it.) When looking at the different yeast options and a 100% corn mash the two yeasts that I thought would give good characteristics were those 2. I know a lot of people have a love/hate relationship with baker’s yeast but there were a lot of good things said about the things it DOES do well working synergistically in a corn mash. I guess we’ll see! If it sucks I’ll just do a UJSSM (planning on that next anyhow) and go from there.
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9748
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: All sweet corn mash
I think you will find that yeasts are cannibalistic, only the stronger more active one will survive , the weaker one won't.
Re: All sweet corn mash
Or whichever one is in it's more favored temp range. With us-o4 and bakers yeast competing the 04 will likely win if its cool, and the bread if its warm.
:)
Re: All sweet corn mash
I don’t disagree a bit. That’s why I ran the US-04 for awhile first. Hoping some of its character gets imparted first, then when the other kicks in it’ll do it’s job. Definitely warmer, but not too warm, as it’s running in my garage. It’s temperature controlled (well… there are ducts out there for Ac but obviously the thermostat is inside) so not at hot as a typical garage.
Re: All sweet corn mash
So, I’m about 2.5 days in and don’t have any great Fermentation action. What I’ve read, the baker’s yeast should be okay but I’m wondering if it’s not. I pitched it about 24 hours after the US-04 and at pitch, the pH was 4.2. Room temp is ~61*F and mash temp is 68.2*F. I keep punching down a few times a day. Looks good and smells good, just no super active fermentation. I’m thinking about pitching another 200g of bakers yeast. Any thoughts? Is 4.2 pH too low and causing a slow fermentation? I, admittedly, haven’t checked gravity yet for a drop because I believe it’s fermenting, just slowly. Maybe I’ll heat it up first and try that first.
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9748
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: All sweet corn mash
If its got a cap that needs knocking down its fermenting......I'd leave it be.
68 is not going to encourage bakers yeast to hurry.
68 is not going to encourage bakers yeast to hurry.
Re: All sweet corn mash
It's very likely just quietly doing its job, or already done. Grab a gravity reading, you have a lot of yeast and a low sugar concentration, that should have finished out fast.
:)
Re: All sweet corn mash
Yeah, I’m in no hurry. Thanks for the advice. I’ve been super busy with a new puppy and figured everything seemed fine enough not to get worked up. I’ll pull a gravity tomorrow when I get home and keep punching er down.
And idea on how long I should keep it on the grain once it’s done for flavor purposes? Or should I get it off the cake ASAP and just start a 2nd gen with some sugar?
And idea on how long I should keep it on the grain once it’s done for flavor purposes? Or should I get it off the cake ASAP and just start a 2nd gen with some sugar?
Re: All sweet corn mash
New puppy is best!
Letting the yeast work won't hurt anything, they keep doing good stuff for a while after the ferment is done.:)
Re: All sweet corn mash
Man… ain’t that the truth. Hahaha What’s worse is that she will act like she has to go to the bathroom, so we take her out. She does nothing for 20 minutes, we bring her back in and she craps on the floor. Haha
So I pulled a grav after work the other day and it’s down about half way. (1.015) So I’m pumped that it’s running slowly. Still looks and smells great. I’ll just keep punching down and checking every couple days to make sure it doesn’t get stuck. The cap seems to be diminishing. So two thumbs up there as well.
So I pulled a grav after work the other day and it’s down about half way. (1.015) So I’m pumped that it’s running slowly. Still looks and smells great. I’ll just keep punching down and checking every couple days to make sure it doesn’t get stuck. The cap seems to be diminishing. So two thumbs up there as well.